How the defensive front could line up under Nielson

[autigerfan]

There seems to be a lot of disappointment as Nielson is not the name some wanted (Flores, Fangio in particular) but I think this could be a very solid hire as Nielson's position groups have performed well and players have developed for the most part.  Given that Nielson's background with Allen and in New Orleans was with the 4-3, I am making the assumption that he will carry this front over with him to ATL.  This may rejuvenate the career of Grady while also stalling the growth of some players particularly if they were drafted to fit the Pees scheme.  Below are my initial thoughts on how we could line up.

 

E -  (maybe sign a FA that won't break the bank like Clowney) Ade Ogundeji

DT - Grady Jarrett, TaQuon Graham (could also slide over to the nose if we are more of a one gap penetrating unit as we did early in Grady's career when we still had Babs.)

NT - This obviously becomes a major need depending on what you think of Timmy Horne and how he would fit in 4-3.  I don't see the Redskins allowing Payne out of the building.   Even A. Anderson has most of his experience coming from teams that deployed the 3-4.  We should also be aiming higher than Jaleel Johnson.

E - Arnold Ebikete (I hope AK 47 doesn't become a casualty of our scheme change because I had very high hopes for him, but his skills don't seem to translate well to the 4-3 particularly given the profile of Saints DE's in recent years.)  Could also be addressed with a high pick or FA such as Yannick Ngakoue.

WLB - Mykal Walker/Troy Anderson. The Will and Mike seem somewhat interchangeable in how 4-3 teams deploy their linebackers nowadays.  This could also save the Walker pick as he was bypassed in the 34.

MLB  - Mykal Walker/Troy Anderson.  I would think their preference would be for Troy to emerge at Mike as he is tied to the team for the long-term and probably possesses a higher upside than Walker.  This also probably reduces the likelihood that Evans is brought back.

SLB - DeAngelo Malone (I've always felt Malone's best bet would be as an off-ball linebacker in the mold of DeVondre Campbell or Michael Boley.)  I think he could shine in this spot.  Arnold Ebikete might be asked to compete for a spot here but he has always seemed better moving towards the QB than dropping into coverage. 

 

[Jesus]

Wasn't AK a hand in the dirt end at Penn State?

[FalconFanSince1969]

I would assume graham will play that left end spot on early downs and sub out on passing downs 

[Sui_Generis]

5 minutes ago, Jesus said:

Wasn't AK a hand in the dirt end at Penn State?

Absolutely

[NorthGaBoy]

Based on the success rate I have seen, hiring a big name DC and hiring a young DC on the rise have the same success/failure rates.  It is more a matter of putting the right people and and schemes together.  The Falcons need to announce internally exactly what they are going to do and start training to the limits of the rules now.  If that means sharing high level schemes or releasing play books, they need to do that ASAP.  Most players can adapt.  They need time.  And, the sooner they start thinking about their roles, the better the odds of success. 

Our success on defense has been limited.  However, I think the quality of players is better than it has been in a long time.  Dean Pees simply did not have time to collect enough players and get his system working.  But, I do see an upward trend.  We are not starting over.  If we add a top tier edge rusher, a mid-tier safety, and a mid-tier corner, this defense can be in the top 16 in the NFL.  That will be a remarkable improvement.  That is assuming that Nielson is a quality DC and for now, I have confidence Terry Fontenot knows that he is that.

Now, add a mid-tier C, LG, RB, 1 top-tier WR, and 1 mid-tier WR, and this offense can roll.  I know many of you will question the need to add a mid-tier RB, but with Patterson a year older and Huntley returning from injury, we need some insurance.  I have more confidence in Ridder than I probably should.  But, there is just something about this guy that makes me believe he is going to be very good.  I am not saying GOAT or SB before you guys with all the superlatives jump in.  I am saying very good.  I want to see a top 12 offense.  That is realistic if we can make the additions I think we need.

Where will this get us?  Well, I think we can win the NFCS and get into the playoffs.  I don't know how far we can go with this team the first time in the playoffs and I also think the NFCS is on a downward trend.  That is a part of my thought process on our ability to win the NFCS.  A little playoff experience will be very good for this team. 

Look for a move the chains style offense and a gritty, never quit defense.  We will win more than we lose and will be in most losses until late.  Most of our losses were close last season.  Of course, as I foresee improvements in the Falcons, we could have improvements to other NFCS teams that could make the NFCS championship more challenging and less likely.  The 2023 NFCS champion is not likely to be the SB winner.  But, it could be a season we are proud of.

Sorry about getting wordy.  I had a lot of thoughts on this.  I will let myself out the back door now.

[Summerhill]

It's hard to say what Nielsen's personal preferences are versus who was the one actually making decisions and just making the best of the talent you have, but probably the most notable departure from what you indicate above could be using a bigger player at LDE. The Saints have been playing Cam Jordan there forever and also Nielsen has some overlap with Pete Carroll at USC and Carroll traditionally likes a 5-tech style DE on the left side. 

Of the Falcons current players, that would probably point to TQ Graham.

[Macintez]

I felt the same way about Ryan being a let down hire… 
 

That all changes if we can get Jerry Gray. Ryan with Jerry changes the defense on a greater level than Fangio could’ve done on his own. I search news articles every looking for an official “Jerry is signed to Falcons article”

[DonDaLuvMaker]

I did some more looking into the Saints defense.

 

The Saints actually run a multiple defense as well. They are a 4-3 base but they also use 3-4, 4-2-5, and 3-3-5.

 

We could see the Falcons be a more 4-3 base, but they could stay a 3-4 base as well if they want because at the end of the day they will be multiple and use more Nickel and Dime packages.

[Herr Doktor]

Great post.  I think that he will have to do some real soul searching.  I would love to have been a fly on the wall in that interview.  Clearly, Arthur knows him.  But what sold them had to be the answer to "where do we go from here?"  Which players fit?  What do we NEED?    And finally, who do you want?  IF he had answers for that, which I am sure he did, that got him hired.  He made a lot of mediocre (perceived) talent in New Orleans grow into a **** fine unit.  Can he do the same magic with our handful of unsung types?

[JDaveG]

1 hour ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

I would assume graham will play that left end spot on early downs and sub out on passing downs 

Or sub inside on passing downs.

[JDaveG]

1 hour ago, DonDaLuvMaker said:

I did some more looking into the Saints defense.

 

The Saints actually run a multiple defense as well. They are a 4-3 base but they also use 3-4, 4-2-5, and 3-3-5.

 

We could see the Falcons be a more 4-3 base, but they could stay a 3-4 base as well if they want because at the end of the day they will be multiple and use more Nickel and Dime packages.

I think this is right.  Coach Smith said this in an article in The Athletic about this:

“I do laugh sometimes about the 4-3 or 3-4 thing."  Talking about the Saints specifically he said “you watch base defense and they’ve got five guys up on the line of scrimmage, call it whatever you want, whether you call that guy (on the end of the line) an open-side end, a jack linebacker, it doesn’t matter.”

The thing is, you present multiple fronts and you utilize your personnel to determine how to line them up.  That's what they see in Nielsen.  I don't know enough about him to say how he's going to do, but I understand why they're not worried about whether it's classed as a 3-4 or a 4-3.  We're in sub most snaps anyway.

[Summerhill]

2 hours ago, autigerfan said:

WLB - Mykal Walker/Troy Anderson. The Will and Mike seem somewhat interchangeable in how 4-3 teams deploy their linebackers nowadays.  This could also save the Walker pick as he was bypassed in the 34.

MLB  - Mykal Walker/Troy Anderson.  I would think their preference would be for Troy to emerge at Mike as he is tied to the team for the long-term and probably possesses a higher upside than Walker.  This also probably reduces the likelihood that Evans is brought back.

Traditionally the 4-3 WLB is the smallest of your starters, fastest, and best in coverage. To me, that would mean Walker over Andersen every day. 

[1989Fan]

1 hour ago, Jesus said:

Wasn't AK a hand in the dirt end at Penn State?

It was a mix. PSU rushed their ends from a stance pretty frequently, but to your point he would be fine as a weak side end.

[1989Fan]

15 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

Traditionally the 4-3 WLB is the smallest of your starters, fastest, and best in coverage. To me, that would mean Walker over Andersen every day. 

I agree, but honestly I wouldnt want any of our existing LB for a starting WLB. Maybe Walker because of his coverage abilities, but it feels like they have a stable of SLB/MLB on the roster now. There are some solid options in draft and FA as well.

[Mr.11]

I swear some of y'all have a vendetta on the letter "e" in "sen."

It's Troy Andersen and Ryan Nielsen.

 

[PokerSteve]

1 hour ago, NorthGaBoy said:

Based on the success rate I have seen, hiring a big name DC and hiring a young DC on the rise have the same success/failure rates.  It is more a matter of putting the right people and and schemes together.  The Falcons need to announce internally exactly what they are going to do and start training to the limits of the rules now.  If that means sharing high level schemes or releasing play books, they need to do that ASAP.  Most players can adapt.  They need time.  And, the sooner they start thinking about their roles, the better the odds of success. 

Our success on defense has been limited.  However, I think the quality of players is better than it has been in a long time.  Dean Pees simply did not have time to collect enough players and get his system working.  But, I do see an upward trend.  We are not starting over.  If we add a top tier edge rusher, a mid-tier safety, and a mid-tier corner, this defense can be in the top 16 in the NFL.  That will be a remarkable improvement.  That is assuming that Nielson is a quality DC and for now, I have confidence Terry Fontenot knows that he is that.

Now, add a mid-tier C, LG, RB, 1 top-tier WR, and 1 mid-tier WR, and this offense can roll.  I know many of you will question the need to add a mid-tier RB, but with Patterson a year older and Huntley returning from injury, we need some insurance.  I have more confidence in Ridder than I probably should.  But, there is just something about this guy that makes me believe he is going to be very good.  I am not saying GOAT or SB before you guys with all the superlatives jump in.  I am saying very good.  I want to see a top 12 offense.  That is realistic if we can make the additions I think we need.

Where will this get us?  Well, I think we can win the NFCS and get into the playoffs.  I don't know how far we can go with this team the first time in the playoffs and I also think the NFCS is on a downward trend.  That is a part of my thought process on our ability to win the NFCS.  A little playoff experience will be very good for this team. 

Look for a move the chains style offense and a gritty, never quit defense.  We will win more than we lose and will be in most losses until late.  Most of our losses were close last season.  Of course, as I foresee improvements in the Falcons, we could have improvements to other NFCS teams that could make the NFCS championship more challenging and less likely.  The 2023 NFCS champion is not likely to be the SB winner.  But, it could be a season we are proud of.

Sorry about getting wordy.  I had a lot of thoughts on this.  I will let myself out the back door now.

Wordy? You went Full PokerSteve. NEVER GO FULL POKERSTEVE!! People Ain't got time for dat! 😆

 

 

Also, good post!

 

[JDaveG]

36 minutes ago, Mr.11 said:

I swear some of y'all have a vendetta on the letter "e" in "sen."

It's Troy Andersen and Ryan Nielsen.

 

Settle down Mistor Olovon

[Freddies 3rd Cuz]

1 hour ago, JDaveG said:

I think this is right.  Coach Smith said this in an article in The Athletic about this:

“I do laugh sometimes about the 4-3 or 3-4 thing."  Talking about the Saints specifically he said “you watch base defense and they’ve got five guys up on the line of scrimmage, call it whatever you want, whether you call that guy (on the end of the line) an open-side end, a jack linebacker, it doesn’t matter.”

The thing is, you present multiple fronts and you utilize your personnel to determine how to line them up.  That's what they see in Nielsen.  I don't know enough about him to say how he's going to do, but I understand why they're not worried about whether it's classed as a 3-4 or a 4-3.  We're in sub most snaps anyway.

Spot on JDG

[FalconFanSince1969]

1 hour ago, JDaveG said:

Or sub inside on passing downs.

I was kinda hoping we signed another stud dt for that role lol

[Killing Floor]

I hope she is given the autonomy to make some cuts. Nobody on that list should be safe except Grady. 
 

Let the man choose some heavys 

[autigerfan]

23 hours ago, Jesus said:

Wasn't AK a hand in the dirt end at Penn State?

Not so much questioning his ability to play with his hand in the dirt as he did that a lot this season.  Coming out it seems the big knock on him was his ability to hold the point in the run game.  He also doesn't have the length that the Saints ends have displayed in recent years.  I hope I'm totally wrong because I'd love to see AK 47 wreak havoc for us in 2023. 

[FalconAge]

9 minutes ago, autigerfan said:

Not so much questioning his ability to play with his hand in the dirt as he did that a lot this season.  Coming out it seems the big knock on him was his ability to hold the point in the run game.  He also doesn't have the length that the Saints ends have displayed in recent years.  I hope I'm totally wrong because I'd love to see AK 47 wreak havoc for us in 2023. 

Ebiketie doesn't have their height, but he certainly has length where it matters (pause). His 34 inch arms are longer than Davenport's and his shorter 6 ft. 2 frame give him a natural leverage advantage.

It was the same for Justin Houston. Explosive first step, leverage, and arm length can lead to a lot of good things for a smaller pass rusher.

It's never a bad idea to go against trends in the NFL and with teams course-correcting away from the 4-3 Under after L.O.B made it popular, we could use that more with Ebiketie as the Leo. Split him out wide and let him throw the book at the tackles.

We have GOT to get better coverage out of our linebackers whatever we do.

[NanoLedgerS]

Jarret and Graham are the tackles ebiketie is the left end need a right end Andersen is the mlb mykal is the will. Terrel is the lcb rookie is the rcb oliver is the nickel 

Edited February 1 by NanoLedgerS

[NanoLedgerS]

3 hours ago, FalconAge said:

Ebiketie doesn't have their height, but he certainly has length where it matters (pause). His 34 inch arms are longer than Davenport's and his shorter 6 ft. 2 frame give him a natural leverage advantage.

It was the same for Justin Houston. Explosive first step, leverage, and arm length can lead to a lot of good things for a smaller pass rusher.

It's never a bad idea to go against trends in the NFL and with teams course-correcting away from the 4-3 Under after L.O.B made it popular, we could use that more with Ebiketie as the Leo. Split him out wide and let him throw the book at the tackles.

We have GOT to get better coverage out of our linebackers whatever we do.

Ebi looks like abraham

[Drunken Minotaur Zebra]

On 1/31/2023 at 2:07 PM, JDaveG said:

I think this is right.  Coach Smith said this in an article in The Athletic about this:

“I do laugh sometimes about the 4-3 or 3-4 thing."  Talking about the Saints specifically he said “you watch base defense and they’ve got five guys up on the line of scrimmage, call it whatever you want, whether you call that guy (on the end of the line) an open-side end, a jack linebacker, it doesn’t matter.”

The thing is, you present multiple fronts and you utilize your personnel to determine how to line them up.  That's what they see in Nielsen.  I don't know enough about him to say how he's going to do, but I understand why they're not worried about whether it's classed as a 3-4 or a 4-3.  We're in sub most snaps anyway.

Precisely this. You change fronts to match up w/ what your opponent is doing (or may do). 

I'll never forget one time playing Madden against my buddy who always beat our *****... just for fun, I ran the Bengals in a 3-4 and just ran Geno through gaps and destroyed him all game. I think the score was like 50-20 off almost all defensive turnovers. 

It's ofc a Madden reference, but if you know how to plug in players to the best of their ability, you will succeed in any matchup. Base defense doesn't matter as much nowadays.