The Night Mariota Dropped Out of MVP Contention

[Swayzee]

11 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Third option — this is dumb. 

They were prepping Ridder all season. They had a plan. It likely included using the bye to make the transition. Literally everyone knows this. Pretending it’s preposterous is a bad look.  

Sure. 

Absolutely, sure it worked out 100% as planned. 

[Emmitt]

30 minutes ago, Swayzee said:

Sure. 

Absolutely, sure it worked out 100% as planned. 

I’m pretty sure Ray Charles saw the timing written on the wall after about three games into the season.

[Killing Floor]

1 hour ago, Swayzee said:

He was  "not ready", that is the excuse that was thrown around here. Like all the sudden the next 3 weeks running the 2nd team with NO FIRST TEAM SNAPS, got him ready for the Saints start.

How about the HC, who watches these guys day in and day out, still decided that Mariota was the best choice to win games while somehow being in contention for a playoff position.

This has been spun to fit so many different narratives, yet most likely the flat out truth of the situation ignored. Either in AS eyes Mariota was still the superior player or he is a terrible evaluator of talent at the QB position. The latter makes no sense because of his track record with guys like Tannehill.

So what is it?

If Ridder starts that next game (11 - Bears) we would have won at least 2 more games this season and would be playing this weekend. 
To me that’s what stings. 

[JDaveG]

1 hour ago, Swayzee said:

Sure. 

Absolutely, sure it worked out 100% as planned. 

It absolutely did.  And it's been told in so many words by the coaching staff.  In preseason, they said Ridder struggled to get the mechanics of the offense down.  Whatever you say about Mariota, he was capable of getting a play off and everyone in position.  So they worked with Ridder after practice with some of the scout team to work on those things.  Midway or so through the season he had a pretty nice jump in his ability to do that, and they began taking steps to have him take over while also not publicly dragging Mariota, who had to start until Ridder was ready.  Really, the only person that didn't see this coming was apparently Mariota himself.

What was not reported, but is still true, is the staff cannot just give the backup first team snaps mid-season. The time for that stuff is preseason.  In the middle of a season, when you are still in the playoff hunt, you either make a change at QB or you don't, but you cannot split reps because there aren't enough reps to go around.  It's why so many promising QBs never really develop, because the truth is, if you aren't playing, you might be learning mechanics and terminology and concepts, but you are not getting the live reps you need.  And it isn't because they didn't think Ridder was capable of taking those snaps. It's because you only have so many practice reps to go around and you HAVE TO give those to the starter.  So until you're ready to make a change, you can't just split reps.  You have games to play.  If Mariota had gotten hurt they'd have obviously made the change immediately.  But he wasn't hurt and Ridder wasn't really ready to just take the reins.  Once we're out of the playoff hunt and the bye week gives the team extra time to transition to a new starting QB, it made a lot more sense to make the move.  

Locker room dynamics play into it as well.  On the one hand, you had Pitts and London obviously frustrated with the QB play.  On the other, if you switch to Ridder and he doesn't handle it well (and arguably the first two games he did not), the entire locker room is going to have issues with you tanking the playoff race just to get the rookie some reps.  That is a delicate situation that most fans don't appreciate, because we want to see the shiny new toy and we all assume he'll be better.  After 2 games he was, but those games were important when we still had a shot at the playoffs.  Second-guessing the staff doesn't really mean much.  They have to look out for what is best for the entire team, not just Desmond Ridder.

For all those reasons, the bye made by far the most sense, something no small number of people here pointed out, me included.  It gives you 2 full weeks to make that transition.  And I'd wager if the bye came after that Carolina game, they'd have considered making the change then.  But it didn't so they couldn't.

It all makes 100% perfect sense if you just consider how NFL teams operate mid-season.

[Hashbrown3]

MVP contention…

Say again?

[Vandy]

1 hour ago, JDaveG said:

Third option — this is dumb. 

They were prepping Ridder all season. They had a plan. It likely included using the bye to make the transition. Literally everyone knows this. Pretending it’s preposterous is a bad look.  

Common sense not very common in TAFT.

[Sponge]

From the Youtube comment section...

Quote

Marcus mariota : “ **** it Julio jones down there somewhere “

[Vandy]

1 hour ago, Swayzee said:

Sure. 

Absolutely, sure it worked out 100% as planned. 

Did you not see Ridder in his 1st two games? And that was after nearly 9 months of correcting mechanical flaws and learning playbook…imagine how bad he would have looked before he was ready? It could have ruined him, there’s a graveyard of promising nfl QBs who were thrown out there too soon before they were ready. 

You (an amateur, as am I) don’t know what you don’t know. Smith (a professional coach with a track record of success) knows.

[octoslash]

You could've done literally anything in that bathroom and it wouldn't have been 10% as shocking as what Mariota did on the field.  

[gazoo]

2 hours ago, Swayzee said:

He was  "not ready", that is the excuse that was thrown around here. Like all the sudden the next 3 weeks running the 2nd team with NO FIRST TEAM SNAPS, got him ready for the Saints start.

After the Thursday night football debacle, in retrospect I see virtually no harm but a lot of good that would have come out of letting Ridder play those 3 extra games. Mariota was getting worse as defenses saw he couldn’t throw the ball and adjusted.

I was in the stands a couple of games prior to the debacle and saw Pitts and London running around all game wide open down field.  Defenses didn’t care, they knew Mariota couldn’t throw the ball, or, in effect, were hoping he would throw the ball.

[JDaveG]

Just now, gazoo said:

After the Thursday night football debacle, in retrospect I see virtually no harm but a lot of good that would have come out of letting Ridder play those 3 extra games. Mariota was getting worse as defenses saw he couldn’t throw the ball and adjusted.

I was in the stands a couple of games prior to the debacle and saw Pitts and London running around all game wide open down field.  Defenses didn’t care, they knew Mariota couldn’t throw the ball, or, in effect, were hoping he would throw the ball.

I don't see any harm and I see a lot of good as well.  But that doesn't change the fact that there are factors we don't see that influence decisions like that.  Ridder's ability to get a play called and get everyone lined up being chief among them, and the effect on the locker room if he's not ready and you have to go back to Mariota being another.

I was impatient too.  But I totally understand why they waited for the bye and until we were functionally out of playoff contention (though I believe we were still mathematically in it when Ridder started in New Orleans, so that wasn't the be all, end all factor either).

[JDaveG]

Look at it this way.  Mariota had a couple of decent games early.  He had shown the ability to do it.  He just oddly regressed as the season went along, and I think @gazoois right that teams switched from taking away the pass to taking away the run and daring Mariota to pass, and he just didn't handle it well.  Mariota was never at any point as good as Ridder at reading defenses and getting the ball out and pressing it downfield.  He doesn't throw well into tight windows.  Ridder can do things Mariota just can't.  But what if Mariota had a couple of really good games and we're still in the hunt?  You can still make the change at the bye, but how does that play in the locker room?

The message they sent was, basically, "we're going to give our guys a chance to do better.  We're not going to make snap decisions and panic."  Short term, that's frustrating as ****.  Long term, it's a really smart approach.

[gazoo]

5 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

I don't see any harm and I see a lot of good as well.  But that doesn't change the fact that there are factors we don't see that influence decisions like that.  Ridder's ability to get a play called and get everyone lined up being chief among them, and the effect on the locker room if he's not ready and you have to go back to Mariota being another.

I was impatient too.  But I totally understand why they waited for the bye and until we were functionally out of playoff contention (though I believe we were still mathematically in it when Ridder started in New Orleans, so that wasn't the be all, end all factor either).

Fair points, I just think he was just as ready as he was going to be 3 games prior to when they put him in, given he played 50 games in a pro style offense in college. I have no issues with him not starting prior to that, but using retrospect, it appears to me the right moment would have been after the Thursday night debacle, giving Ridder 3 more games under his belt.

But you notice I don’t call out the coaching staff, for the very reasons you point out. It was a much tougher call than many fans realize.

[Jerz]

58 minutes ago, Killing Floor said:

If Ridder starts that next game (11 - Bears) we would have won at least 2 more games this season and would be playing this weekend. 
To me that’s what stings. 

It stings soo bad. This team would have been playing with house money in the playoffs. No one expected it. Run game was really heating up at the right time too. NFC teams this year are so beatable. 

[oSI7ENT]

I find it funny when posters write articles of wording about “it was a plan” etc etc when it comes to Ridder. Like they’ve made this narrative that AS has this master plan. The truth is quite a bit different. Look no further than an extremely humbled and defeated AS himself when saying “we need to get over the hump” and “everything is on the table” while hinting at a QB change. It says two things, one he knew his arrogance likely cost his team a playoff spot; two he knew he was at risk of losing the locker room. 

Speaking of the locker room, do I need to link where Grady Jarrett literally said “New year same ****” in reference to missing the playoffs? This is one of your biggest locker room leaders. He obviously doesn’t feel like most posters here with that “this was an evaluation” year mentality. Sheesh…. Sometimes you don’t need to read between the eyes, you just gotta see it for what it is.

 

[The Falcon Jedi Knight]

I don't understand how he started 2 more games after that game. This was vintage Mariota at it's worst. His NFL career should have been over after that game.

[oSI7ENT]

1 minute ago, The Falcon Jedi Knight said:

I don't understand how he started 2 more games after that game. This was vintage Mariota at it's worst. His NFL career should have been over after that game.

Apparently, according to Taft. Ridder was unable to get the play calls and people lined up correctly….

 

[celtiksage]

56 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Did you not see Ridder in his 1st two games? And that was after nearly 9 months of correcting mechanical flaws and learning playbook…imagine how bad he would have looked before he was ready? It could have ruined him, there’s a graveyard of promising nfl QBs who were thrown out there too soon before they were ready. 

You (an amateur, as am I) don’t know what you don’t know. Smith (a professional coach with a track record of success) knows.

Case in point... Zach Wilson (who half this board wanted and would have thrown to the wolves immediately just as the Jets did). Yep, let the coaching staff do their thang. That's why they get paid the big bucks.

[THEHEADCOACH]

I was a huge fan of Mariota through his whole college career. Always thought he was an amazing athlete, calm, and he could throw the football. I felt sorry for him , knowing the Titans would draft him. I figured he would retire on the draft stage and I wouldn't have blamed him. They were a terrible franchise. They obviously broke something in him. He hasn't been the same since, mentality or physically.  I was hopeful after sitting for a while, that maybe he could get it back here, and be a good QB for us. I quickly realized, that wasn't the case. Now, the way he walked out when he was benched, I don't want to see him on our sidelines ever again. He probably never gets on anywhere else, word gets around, but there is always one fool.

[JDaveG]

33 minutes ago, jetpac said:

I find it funny when posters write articles of wording about “it was a plan” etc etc when it comes to Ridder. Like they’ve made this narrative that AS has this master plan. The truth is quite a bit different. Look no further than an extremely humbled and defeated AS himself when saying “we need to get over the hump” and “everything is on the table” while hinting at a QB change. It says two things, one he knew his arrogance likely cost his team a playoff spot; two he knew he was at risk of losing the locker room. 

Speaking of the locker room, do I need to link where Grady Jarrett literally said “New year same ****” in reference to missing the playoffs? This is one of your biggest locker room leaders. He obviously doesn’t feel like most posters here with that “this was an evaluation” year mentality. Sheesh…. Sometimes you don’t need to read between the eyes, you just gotta see it for what it is.

 

LOL, no it doesn't.  The idea that Smith was sitting there wringing his hands is silly.  Again, they talked about this at length.  Articles were written talking about Ridder's jump in ability to run the offense.

No plan works out moment by moment.  Art Smith is not some determinist mastermind.  But every plan takes into account things that might happen.  Smith's took into account that Mariota might play better.  He didn't, so they executed the plan to replace him.  It's as simple as that.  There's no need to construct this narrative where a defeated and dejected Art Smith fell on his sword, having failed his team, and finally did what a bunch of keyboard warriors wanted him to do all along.

29 minutes ago, jetpac said:

Apparently, according to Taft. Ridder was unable to get the play calls and people lined up correctly….

 

That is LITERALLY what the team said.

"When the decision was officially announced on Monday, Arthur Smith explained that he also felt Ridder had progressed enough to earn this opportunity. 

“Also, the growth from Desmond that we’ve seen,” Smith said when asked about the rationale behind the change. “He’s been wanting to play all season, but we feel very comfortable with where he’s at right now to be able to handle the game plan and operate in a full capacity. Again, we would’ve adapted if he had to play earlier in the season, but we feel really good with where he’s at right now.”"

https://www.thefalcoholic.com/2022/12/15/23510298/desmond-ridder-start-falcons-offense-marcus-mariota

And back in October:

"I think he's doing well," said London on Ridder's development. 

"Doing a good job of getting guys in the right spots and dealing with motions and other things that come with being a scout team quarterback, and I think he does a great job after practice of grabbing the younger guys who maybe not have gotten as many reps and going through the plays. He does a good job of carrying those other guys with him."

https://www.si.com/nfl/falcons/news/atlanta-falcons-desmond-ridder-developmenting-cincinnati-return-bengals-bearcats-charles-london-marcus-mariota

Then later in November:

"I just see growth with him, whether it's conceptually, whether it's formations, (or) whether it's blitz pickups," London said. "Whatever it may be, I just see the growth in the work that he puts in each week about trying to get better as a professional quarterback.

"Obviously, there's things we ask him to do that he wasn't asked to do in college, and I think he's taken the growth there, taken the steps there and he continues to develop each day and put in the work. We'll continue to work with him and see where it goes from there."

https://www.si.com/nfl/falcons/news/atlanta-falcons-desmond-ridder-growth-development-charles-london-marcus-mariota

And then right before his first start:

"For anywhere between 15 minutes to a half-hour after practice, Ridder and a collection of Atlanta offensive players, who primarily spend their time on scout team, stay on the field running through plays. These are their reps to learn Atlanta's offense.

"Going out there, working on little things, getting timing, running the right routes, knowing we got to line up fast," receiver Frank Darby said. "Because when it comes down, we just got to be ready for the opportunity."

Since Atlanta drafted Ridder in April, there has been a clear development plan. The Falcons wanted to push him but not overload him, see what he could handle without placing him in a position that could stunt his success.

In minicamp and throughout the season, Falcons coaches have praised how Ridder handled things mentally -- from learning the playbook to picking up on his offensive scheme -- and his maturity.

"As the season's gone on, he's gotten more and more comfortable with it and you've seen growth from there," quarterbacks coach Charles London said in late November. "Just from him, whatever, whether it's mastering the game plan or mastering this concept or understanding this progression, you're seeing a little more of it each week."

***

"Some of the ways I was doing it before obviously weren't working enough to this point," Ridder told ESPN in October. "So I felt like I could find something else better to help me understand and remember everything that's in our game plan."

Ridder began using the flash card learning tool Quizlet to help accelerate his process. Quizlet creates digital flashcards to help facilitate learning and memorization, part of what Ridder needed to jump-start the process. Prior to Quizlet, Ridder said, he was finding there were small details he wasn't grasping."

***

"All of it has helped. In those post-practice workouts, Darby said Ridder has started finishing the playcall before London.

"From rookie minicamp to now, it's like a whole different dude," said running back Caleb Huntley, a post-practice regular. "Every practice, it's little things he's gotten better at. Accuracy, the deep ball, just different reads and where the ball needs to go on a given play."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35239416/how-falcons-prepared-rookie-quarterback-desmond-ridder-first-start

 

This stuff isn't a mystery.  The team told us what was going on.  People just prefer the silliness of "derp the coach is lost and doesn't know what he's doing, hyuck, hyuck" to the truth.

[Killing Floor]

33 minutes ago, jetpac said:

I find it funny when posters write articles of wording about “it was a plan” etc etc when it comes to Ridder. Like they’ve made this narrative that AS has this master plan. The truth is quite a bit different. Look no further than an extremely humbled and defeated AS himself when saying “we need to get over the hump” and “everything is on the table” while hinting at a QB change. It says two things, one he knew his arrogance likely cost his team a playoff spot; two he knew he was at risk of losing the locker room. 

Speaking of the locker room, do I need to link where Grady Jarrett literally said “New year same ****” in reference to missing the playoffs? This is one of your biggest locker room leaders. He obviously doesn’t feel like most posters here with that “this was an evaluation” year mentality. Sheesh…. Sometimes you don’t need to read between the eyes, you just gotta see it for what it is.

 

There was no plan. There was loyalty. We can’t “wing it” next season. That won’t be tolerated. 

[oSI7ENT]

Man wrote an essay on why Mariotta wasn’t benched after the Carolina game. Meanwhile 7th round pick Brock Purdy out here looking like a stud. And I refuse to believe he’s better than Ridder…. So what does that leave, coaching?

[JDaveG]

4 minutes ago, jetpac said:

Man wrote an essay on why Mariotta wasn’t benched after the Carolina game. Meanwhile 7th round pick Brock Purdy out here looking like a stud. And I refuse to believe he’s better than Ridder…. So what does that leave, coaching?

Why is Purdy starting?  Did they bench Garroppolo?

Oh, wait -- Garroppolo got hurt.  Is Lance not ready?  No, Lance is out for the season with a foot injury.

So unless you're suggesting that if Mariota got hurt we still wouldn't have started Ridder, this is kind of a silly apples and oranges comparison.  Because if the difference is coaching, you'll have to explain why Shanahan didn't start Purdy before Garroppolo got hurt, since he's a smarter coach and all.

Maybe this whole "the coach is dumb" narrative is..........dumb.........

[Godzilla1985]

12 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Why is Purdy starting?  Did they bench Garroppolo?

Oh, wait -- Garroppolo got hurt.  Is Lance not ready?  No, Lance is out for the season with a foot injury.

So unless you're suggesting that if Mariota got hurt we still wouldn't have started Ridder, this is kind of a silly apples and oranges comparison.  Because if the difference is coaching, you'll have to explain why Shanahan didn't start Purdy before Garroppolo got hurt, since he's a smarter coach and all.

Maybe this whole "the coach is dumb" narrative is..........dumb.........

Just put this clown on ignore.  I did that weeks ago.  

[oSI7ENT]

16 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Why is Purdy starting?  Did they bench Garroppolo?

Oh, wait -- Garroppolo got hurt.  Is Lance not ready?  No, Lance is out for the season with a foot injury.

So unless you're suggesting that if Mariota got hurt we still wouldn't have started Ridder, this is kind of a silly apples and oranges comparison.  Because if the difference is coaching, you'll have to explain why Shanahan didn't start Purdy before Garroppolo got hurt, since he's a smarter coach and all.

Maybe this whole "the coach is dumb" narrative is..........dumb.........

I’m suggesting anyone with eyes including AS who **** near said as much in hindsight could’ve seen starting Ridder sooner was the smart move. 

 

3 minutes ago, Godzilla1985 said:

Just put this clown on ignore.  I did that weeks ago.  

Who are you again?