I like Ridder but….

[Nino11]

I wasn’t a fan of the whole “let him sit and learn” narrative but I guess I was spoiled by Matt Ryan coming in and being the guy from day one. And maybe I’m biased, but I would think if Ridder was a “guy” he coulda beat out Mariota by now. I thought he looked great in the preseason for a rookie and would win the job but here we are just finishing Week 12 and he’s still holding clip board. I understand he went in the third for a reason but can you guys think of any QB that was a “guy”,  no matter where they were selected, that wouldn’t be able to beat out Mariota even as a rookie? I can’t….

Mariota isn’t the worst QB to start for the Falcons. His character makes it easy to root for him but his plays doesn’t. But in all honesty it’s actually worst then that as he shows flashes of why he was drafted number 2. He subsequently follows that up with just plain on bad. I think the bad outweighs the good at this point though.

It’s time to see what Ridder has. I think Smith’s staff has brought in some good talent and seem to have an eye for it so it makes me worried they havnt put him In yet. 

 

Yes, another Ridder thread. Sorry for the inconvenience to the stickler so

[Bunchy Carter]

The crux of your post relies on the Falcons' depth chart being a true meritocracy. I don't believe it is. It's almost absurd to think it is when Ogundeji is starting over Ebikete, D Hall over Alford and Richie Grant starting period.

 

[SwampyMux12]

I've always kind of been on the fence about whether or not sitting a rookie QB actually helps. It used to be common practice for teams to sit a QB to have them "learn". Heck, John Elway, Dan Marino, and Joe Montana all sat for at least part of their rookie season (Elway actually split time with Steve Deberg, but played in 11 games and Montana sat for the better part of 2 seasons).

Anyway, Elway was terrible his rookie year 47% passing, 7 td 14 int and he still had a HOF career. Akili Smith and David Klinger in the long line of Bengals QB failures, sat for most of their rookie year and were still awful and flamed out in a few seasons.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that either a QB has it, or they don't. And I don't really believe that sitting, or not sitting effects that. I don't think sitting for a season always makes a QB better, I don't think starting them right away ruins them. Derek Carr started every game his rookie year, went 3-13, it didn't break him.

Everyone always points to David Carr getting sacked almost 80 times his rookie year and how that "broke" him. Maybe David Carr just wasn't that good of a QB? He was only sacked like 15 times his 2nd season and he was still bad. 

I think Mariota was starting no matter what, and I think he did a solid job up until the 2nd Carolina game. IMO, that should have been his last start. Heck, his body language on the field during the 2nd half of that game looked like a he expected it to be his last stand... Ridder should have started vs Chicago against a weaker defense after a mini bye - Mariota has been a dead man walking for a few weeks.

So long story short, we need to find out if Ridder has it or he doesn't. We should have had the opportunity to know that by now, but AS was too bullheaded on Mariota and fell into the "we're still in the playoff hunt" trap at the expense of finding that out. The fact that he sat most of his rookie year, IMO, has no bearing on whether or not he will become a good QB some day.

[Nino11]

4 hours ago, Bunchy Carter said:

The crux of your post relies on the Falcons' depth chart being a true meritocracy. I don't believe it is. It's almost absurd to think it is when Ogundeji is starting over Ebikete, D Hall over Alford and Richie Grant starting period.

 

I mean I get it. We have holes. But Arthur Smith’s job is to put the best team on the field. If he feels Mariota gives us the best chance of winning, that’s what has me worried. Mariota has to play with the same guys you’re saying aren’t good enough and still managed to win 5 games. He gets to watch Ridder practice week in and week out. He gets to watch Mariota do inexplicably bad things on Sundays and you mean to tell me he believes that gives us the best chance to win? 

[SwampyMux12]

I've also said it before, but I think Ridder/Willis/Corral and even Howell could have been first rounders in other drafts. The draft was super stacked with WRs and defenders and IMO teams were mostly settled at QB. I can't think of a team that didn't have a QB they were planning on starting. The teams that took QBs "early" were Pittsburgh (they just signed Trubisky), Atlanta (Mariota), Tennessee (Tannehill), Washington (Wentz and Heineke), Carolina (Darnold and Mayfield).

I saw plenty of Mocks with all 4 of those guys as potential first rounders, so it's not like people around the league didn't believe they had starting quality talent. Ridder and Willis, in particular, if they would have been SEC QBs, they likely would have went a lot higher, because their college numbers were as good as anyone else's. The fact that Zach Wilson, slight of frame, injury history, one year wonder, smaller school and Trey Lance, FCS, one year of starting experience, played 1 game in the Covid season (and didn't even play that well in that game) went top 4 in a draft leads me to believe that NFL teams take QBs when they are desperate, not necessarily when it is smart to do so. Teams last draft just weren't desperate. If there was a team that was super QB needy, these guys would have been off the board much earlier.

Even Ridder's official NFL.com write up had him as a 1st or 2nd rounder.

[Nino11]

8 minutes ago, SwampyMux12 said:

I've always kind of been on the fence about whether or not sitting a rookie QB actually helps. It used to be common practice for teams to sit a QB to have them "learn". Heck, John Elway, Dan Marino, and Joe Montana all sat for at least part of their rookie season (Elway actually split time with Steve Deberg, but played in 11 games and Montana sat for the better part of 2 seasons).

Anyway, Elway was terrible his rookie year 47% passing, 7 td 14 int and he still had a HOF career. Akili Smith and David Klinger in the long line of Bengals QB failures, sat for most of their rookie year and were still awful and flamed out in a few seasons.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that either a QB has it, or they don't. And I don't really believe that sitting, or not sitting effects that. I don't think sitting for a season always makes a QB better, I don't think starting them right away ruins them. Derek Carr started every game his rookie year, went 3-13, it didn't break him.

Everyone always points to David Carr getting sacked almost 80 times his rookie year and how that "broke" him. Maybe David Carr just wasn't that good of a QB? He was only sacked like 15 times his 2nd season and he was still bad. 

I think Mariota was starting no matter what, and I think he did a solid job up until the 2nd Carolina game. IMO, that should have been his last start. Heck, his body language on the field during the 2nd half of that game looked like a he expected it to be his last stand... Ridder should have started vs Chicago against a weaker defense after a mini bye - Mariota has been a dead man walking for a few weeks.

So long story short, we need to find out if Ridder has it or he doesn't. We should have had the opportunity to know that by now, but AS was too bullheaded on Mariota and fell into the "we're still in the playoff hunt" trap at the expense of finding that out. The fact that he sat most of his rookie year, IMO, has no bearing on whether or not he will become a good QB some day.

I pray you’re right. Maybe Arthur doesn’t want to risk “ruining” him this year and plans to use the cap space and draft to produce a better team before putting him out there. But man, as much as we find dumb ways to lose I think we have a lot more talent then we get credit for. We are literally in every game of the season for the most part and lose it by a score or so. We aren’t getting blown out weekly. I would understand not wanting to put him out there if we looked terrible but every game looks winnable and lets me know we aren’t as bad as “they” say we are. 

[SwampyMux12]

3 minutes ago, Nino11 said:

I pray you’re right. Maybe Arthur doesn’t want to risk “ruining” him this year and plans to use the cap space and draft to produce a better team before putting him out there. But man, as much as we find dumb ways to lose I think we have a lot more talent then we get credit for. We are literally in every game of the season for the most part and lose it by a score or so. We aren’t getting blown out weekly. I would understand not wanting to put him out there if we looked terrible but every game looks winnable and lets me know we aren’t as bad as “they” say we are. 

I really think he fell for the trap that a lot of teams over the years have fallen for. The "we're still in the playoff hunt" trap, so we kept what doing what was "working". It's not too hard to argue after the first 8 or so games that Mariota was playing well enough to keep his job. If we would have been 2-6, 1-7 we likely would have seen Ridder a long time ago. Mariota, despite his shortcomings, had us in the thick of the division race. I think now it's pretty clear that we are not winning the division, so there's really no more to gain by keeping Mariota out there.

[PriMeTiiMe]

Matt Ryan was a top 5 pick. Desmond Ridder was a 3rd round pick.

Not saying Ridder could not have started week 1 but it's just completely different expectations when you compare those 2 different places of being drafted.

[ItsJustMe]

Don't look at Ridder as a 3rd rounder. Look at Ridder as a late 1st rounder we stole in the 3rd round.

[Smiler11]

I mean Mahomes sat behind Alex Smith for a year so in and of itself it isn't telling as to whether he will be a success or not.

[archanaheim]

11 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

I mean Mahomes sat behind Alex Smith for a year so in and of itself it isn't telling as to whether he will be a success or not.

Yeah, and Smith wasn't all that much better than Mariota.

 

Alex Smith was like an old school Jimmy G.

[Killing Floor]

2 hours ago, Nino11 said:

I mean I get it. We have holes. But Arthur Smith’s job is to put the best team on the field. If he feels Mariota gives us the best chance of winning, that’s what has me worried. Mariota has to play with the same guys you’re saying aren’t good enough and still managed to win 5 games. He gets to watch Ridder practice week in and week out. He gets to watch Mariota do inexplicably bad things on Sundays and you mean to tell me he believes that gives us the best chance to win? 

Short answer, 

Yes, I believe Smith likes who he likes and isn’t purely merit based. And yes, I believe it’s very difficult for some people to change course. 
 

 

And not that you asked but on paper Mariota looked like the right answer. His confidence is not what it once was. 

[FalconsFanSince194eva]

1 hour ago, popeyez_biscuits said:

Yeah, and Smith wasn't all that much better than Mariota.

 

WHAT? Lmao, what? 

[FentayeJones]

1 hour ago, popeyez_biscuits said:

Yeah, and Smith wasn't all that much better than Mariota.

 

[runshoot]

2 hours ago, Nino11 said:

He gets to watch Mariota do inexplicably bad things on Sundays and you mean to tell me he believes that gives us the best chance to win? 

The entire 22 year, the QB situation, the changing culture and where this team is headed all fits together perfectly if you step back and look at the larger picture instead of focusing on just 22.  I see maybe 3 people on TAFT who understand this, the multi year process that is clear as day. It was never about winning in 22. Don't get it twisted, it is not about losing either.

22 is about changing the culture of the team. Its about finally getting rid of the dead cap and bloated contracts and finally its about the youth movement. In 2020 we were the 32nd oldest team and in 2022 we are the 6th youngest. We will be one of the top 5 available cap teams. And you can see on the field that the culture is and has changed.

Occam's razor versus Occam's duct tape. It is very clear what is happening and the why its happening the way it is happening is quite clear as well. But people want to put Duct Tape all over it and claim AS wants to lose for a better draft pick. AS is in the hot seat. AS is coward for not starting Ridder. AS is losing the locker room. All false and all said by internet warriors who just want to kick and scream that they are "right".

 

[FalconsFanSince194eva]

8 minutes ago, runshoot said:

The entire 22 year, the QB situation, the changing culture and where this team is headed all fits together perfectly if you step back and look at the larger picture instead of focusing on just 22.  I see maybe 3 people on TAFT who understand this, the multi year process that is clear as day. It was never about winning in 22. Don't get it twisted, it is not about losing either.

22 is about changing the culture of the team. Its about finally getting rid of the dead cap and bloated contracts and finally its about the youth movement. In 2020 we were the 32nd oldest team and in 2022 we are the 6th youngest. We will be one of the top 5 available cap teams. And you can see on the field that the culture is and has changed.

Occam's razor versus Occam's duct tape. It is very clear what is happening and the why its happening the way it is happening is quite clear as well. But people want to put Duct Tape all over it and claim AS wants to lose for a better draft pick. AS is in the hot seat. AS is coward for not starting Ridder. AS is losing the locker room. All false and all said by internet warriors who just want to kick and scream that they are "right".

 

How elitist, it's football not rocket science. Some of you all really think yall in the club and everybody else is just running around with their heads cut off. Most people know what AS and TF are during, we just tend to disagree. Like how hard of an concept is that to understand. 

[Blitz28179]

We will have a lot of cap space this off season but I am hearing a lot more teams will be too. Will we have to be quick to get players to improve the team for the 23 season? I've never thought about this before. So will the off season be like Black Friday with teams rushing to sign free agents? Will a FA want to sign here with our history in the way we lose games?? Just curious how this will play out 

[SwampyMux12]

1 hour ago, popeyez_biscuits said:

Yeah, and Smith wasn't all that much better than Mariota.

 

Alex Smith was like an old school Jimmy G.

Smith was having a career year throwing the football. I also think Mahomes only got the start in the last game due to injury, but I could be wrong. It may have been because KC was locked into their playoff spot.

[runshoot]

1 minute ago, FalconsFanSince194eva said:

How elitist, it's football not rocket science. Some of you all really think yall in the club and everybody else is just running around with their heads cut off. Most people know what AS and TF are during, we just tend to disagree. Like how hard of an concept is that to understand. 

Yep exactly. Thanks for the kudos. You're right its football not rocket science. Yet all you have to do is read the boards, its easy to do. When I read the board I see the hate for AS and how Mariota is costing the team and only an idiot coach would stick with Mariota.

[Lornoth]

24 minutes ago, runshoot said:

The entire 22 year, the QB situation, the changing culture and where this team is headed all fits together perfectly if you step back and look at the larger picture instead of focusing on just 22.  I see maybe 3 people on TAFT who understand this, the multi year process that is clear as day. It was never about winning in 22. Don't get it twisted, it is not about losing either.

22 is about changing the culture of the team. Its about finally getting rid of the dead cap and bloated contracts and finally its about the youth movement. In 2020 we were the 32nd oldest team and in 2022 we are the 6th youngest. We will be one of the top 5 available cap teams. And you can see on the field that the culture is and has changed.

Occam's razor versus Occam's duct tape. It is very clear what is happening and the why its happening the way it is happening is quite clear as well. But people want to put Duct Tape all over it and claim AS wants to lose for a better draft pick. AS is in the hot seat. AS is coward for not starting Ridder. AS is losing the locker room. All false and all said by internet warriors who just want to kick and scream that they are "right".

 

This exactly. The premise of this thread is flawed because it's assuming our ultimate goal was to win this year. It's not. It never was. Our HC and GM came right out before preseason and literally said 'wait until next year, then we'll be good.' Ridder's starting or not has nothing to do with whether he's better than mariota right now, it has to do with whether it'll make him better next year or not. That's always been the case. If AS thinks that now is the time to start him in order to maximize his development for next year, he will. If he think Ridder will be more helped by riding the bench the rest of the year, even if he's better than Mariota right now, then we won't see Ridder until next year.

[Boise Falcon Fan]

2 hours ago, popeyez_biscuits said:

Yeah, and Smith wasn't all that much better than Mariota.

 

Alex Smith was like an old school Jimmy G.

Alex Smith was WAY better than Mariota. Mariota is REALLY bad. That's why I am not worried for DR, and the reason I have wanted him to be the starter. He just can't be worse than Mariota.

[Boise Falcon Fan]

48 minutes ago, runshoot said:

Yep exactly. Thanks for the kudos. You're right its football not rocket science. Yet all you have to do is read the boards, its easy to do. When I read the board I see the hate for AS and how Mariota is costing the team and only an idiot coach would stick with Mariota.

Well, Mariota pretty much stinks, so there's that...

[Nino11]

1 hour ago, Lornoth said:

This exactly. The premise of this thread is flawed because it's assuming our ultimate goal was to win this year. It's not. It never was. Our HC and GM came right out before preseason and literally said 'wait until next year, then we'll be good.' Ridder's starting or not has nothing to do with whether he's better than mariota right now, it has to do with whether it'll make him better next year or not. That's always been the case. If AS thinks that now is the time to start him in order to maximize his development for next year, he will. If he think Ridder will be more helped by riding the bench the rest of the year, even if he's better than Mariota right now, then we won't see Ridder until next year.

Your assuming I thought the ultimate goal was to win this year. The premise of this thread is why not see what we have in Ridder before a loaded QB class comes in this year. And if we are going by Smith’s coach speak then the aim was to always win this year. But doesn’t matter any more, it’s Ridder time 

[Nino11]

1 hour ago, runshoot said:

The entire 22 year, the QB situation, the changing culture and where this team is headed all fits together perfectly if you step back and look at the larger picture instead of focusing on just 22.  I see maybe 3 people on TAFT who understand this, the multi year process that is clear as day. It was never about winning in 22. Don't get it twisted, it is not about losing either.

22 is about changing the culture of the team. Its about finally getting rid of the dead cap and bloated contracts and finally its about the youth movement. In 2020 we were the 32nd oldest team and in 2022 we are the 6th youngest. We will be one of the top 5 available cap teams. And you can see on the field that the culture is and has changed.

Occam's razor versus Occam's duct tape. It is very clear what is happening and the why its happening the way it is happening is quite clear as well. But people want to put Duct Tape all over it and claim AS wants to lose for a better draft pick. AS is in the hot seat. AS is coward for not starting Ridder. AS is losing the locker room. All false and all said by internet warriors who just want to kick and scream that they are "right".

 

I’ve posted I bought into every phase of the plan Smith has laid out. My only question is why baby Ridder when we need to find out if he’s the guy or not. Westbrook was able to come in and take over as a non first round pick. So was Dak Presscott. To me doesn’t matter where you drafted, either your a guy or not 

[runshoot]

7 minutes ago, Nino11 said:

I’ve posted I bought into every phase of the plan Smith has laid out. My only question is why baby Ridder when we need to find out if he’s the guy or not. Westbrook was able to come in and take over as a non first round pick. So was Dak Presscott. To me doesn’t matter where you drafted, either your a guy or not 

But thats the point. Its not about Ridder or babying him or whether he is like Mahomes and sits a year or starts day 1 like MR#2.

Its about the team. AS said Mariota was his starter and he stuck to it. This did the opposite of what TAFT posters think. TAFT thinks it lost the locker room and made AS look bad. What it really did was tell the locker room that he has their back. If you are named a starter you get the benefit of the doubt. Players from other teams see that. They see a coach standing behind his players. Now that we are out of the Playoff race, AS is free to say "hey lets see what we have next year".

I