I'm not the coach, but I think it's time for Ridder to start

[JDaveG]

I've been saying most of the season that Mariota was playing well enough to hold the job and let Ridder hold the clipboard.  Last night, though, was just atrocious.  Horrible.  Worst QB play I've seen from this team since AT LEAST 2007, and honestly, Joey Harrington would do better than Mariota did last night most games.

Granted, it's one game.  Granted, Mariota was harassed all night.  Granted, the protection wasn't there.  But you cannot throw up some of the ducks he was throwing up last night and expect to win.  A couple were just "Hail Mary punts."  But several were just horrible throws that he never should have let go of, culminating in the lawn chair bomb he threw and was lucky to get back because he was already down when he threw it.

Mariota isn't seeing the field, isn't finding the open man, and is trying to do too much even when he knows, or should know, that he cannot possibly make the play he's trying to make.  Throwing across his body over the middle, heaving up passes and hoping they land, and missing WIDE OPEN targets on short, easy, gimme throws.  He's shook.  Ridder might not be any better, but he can't be any worse.  The Panthers started PJ Walker last night, and won.  If Ridder can't be at least as good as him, then we need to know that right now.  And even if they think they already know that, he surely can't be any worse than Mariota is.  I can take some of this crap from a rookie.  It is just inexcusable for an 8 year vet.

I get the argument that Mariota is loved in the locker room, but at some point when one guy keeps lobbing grenades into his own bunker, the rest of the unit is going to tune out.  If you think you're going to lose the locker room by benching him, my counter-argument is you're going to lose it starting him so you might as well lose it with a chance to get it back.

Start.  Ridder.  Now.

[A Dog Named Brian]

I’ve seen a lot of football up to this point in my life and I have NEVER seen a vet professional QB airmail it to the middle of the field as he was going down. If I’m a player in that locker room and my coach is still allowing that person to start with a promising rookie chomping at the bit for his opportunity, I’m starting to lose faith in my coach. This is one way you can start losing the locker room, QUICK 

[JDaveG]

Just now, A Dog Named Brian said:

I’ve seen a lot of football up to this point in my life and I have NEVER seen a vet professional QB airmail it to the middle of the field as he was going down. If I’m a player in that locker room and my coach is still allowing that person to start with a promising rookie chomping at the bit for his opportunity, I’m starting to lose faith in my coach. This is one way you can start losing the locker room, QUICK 

Exactly.  And I think for the most part these guys trust Smith.  But man, you can't have one guy be THAT bad and just keep rolling him out.

Ridder should have been put in after Mariota threw a football downfield while simultaneously doing an alligator roll.  Why he wasn't, only Smith knows, but you cannot keep putting that sort of product on the field and expect the message "do your job" to resonate with any of the other 10 players on offense, or any of the 11 players on defense.  At some point, the natural response is "but why?"

[Killing Floor]

Yep. But the only person who’s opinion matters still thinks he’s trotting out the best quarterback. 
 

FYI, same decision maker started Davis over Patterson last year well past the point it became obvious that CP wasn’t a fluke and long after it was obvious Davis was a bust. Same decision maker who drafts pro bowl talent receivers and uses them as sub par blockers. 
 

I agree with your post. But I doubt we’ll see Ridder until preseason and don’t be surprised if we pay the bump for Marcus next year. 
 

Y’all can flame away but the only argument you have is that Mariota isn’t good at football. How has that affected Smith’s roster decisions so far?  

[JDaveG]

Just now, Killing Floor said:

Yep. But the only person who’s opinion matters still thinks he’s trotting out the best quarterback. 
 

FYI, same decision maker starter Davis over Patterson last year well past the point it became obvious that CP wasn’t a fluke and long after it was obvious Davis was a bust. Same decision maker who drafts pro bowl talent receivers and uses them as sub par blockers. 
 

I agree with your post. But I doubt we’ll see Ridder until preseason and don’t be surprised if we pay the bump for Marcus next year. 
 

Y’all can flame away but the only argument you have is that Mariota isn’t good at football. How has that affected Smith’s roster decisions so far?  

Oh, I think Smith has his reasons, which is why I said "I'm not the coach."  He's demonstrated he's a solid football coach.  He's doing a lot more with a lot less than the guys he replaced.

But at some point, he has to take a chance, and I personally think that now's the time.

[A Dog Named Brian]

1 minute ago, JDaveG said:

Exactly.  And I think for the most part these guys trust Smith.  But man, you can't have one guy be THAT bad and just keep rolling him out.

Ridder should have been put in after Mariota threw a football downfield while simultaneously doing an alligator roll.  Why he wasn't, only Smith knows, but you cannot keep putting that sort of product on the field and expect the message "do your job" to resonate with any of the other 10 players on offense, or any of the 11 players on defense.  At some point, the natural response is "but why?"

Especially when it’s your QB. I said it in the game thread last night and I’ll say it here too, if Ridder IS really doing this poorly behind closed doors and at practice then we were lied to about his development and his preseason showing was just a fluke. Otherwise Art is just being unnecessarily stubborn and it might be his undoing here in the long run.

[RING OF HONOR]

4 minutes ago, A Dog Named Brian said:

If I’m a player in that locker room and my coach is still allowing that person to start with a promising rookie chomping at the bit for his opportunity, I’m

[Tribal Chief]

5 minutes ago, A Dog Named Brian said:

I’ve seen a lot of football up to this point in my life and I have NEVER seen a vet professional QB airmail it to the middle of the field as he was going down. If I’m a player in that locker room and my coach is still allowing that person to start with a promising rookie chomping at the bit for his opportunity, I’m starting to lose faith in my coach. This is one way you can start losing the locker room, QUICK 

There is one QB who's done it. In a major game lol

 

[A Dog Named Brian]

1 minute ago, Tribal Chief said:

There is one QB who's done it. In a major game lol

 

At least one of them was airmailed out of bounds 😂

[abcranford2]

2 minutes ago, A Dog Named Brian said:

Especially when it’s your QB. I said it in the game thread last night and I’ll say it here too, if Ridder IS really doing this poorly behind closed doors and at practice then we were lied to about his development and his preseason showing was just a fluke. Otherwise Art is just being unnecessarily stubborn and it might be his undoing here in the long run.

I mean...or maybe he's developing just fine and Arthur doesn't want to mess that up by playing him too early. 

[Tribal Chief]

Just now, A Dog Named Brian said:

At least one of them was airmailed out of bounds 😂

Lol

[A Dog Named Brian]

Just now, abcranford2 said:

I mean...or maybe he's developing just fine and Arthur doesn't want to mess that up by playing him too early. 

That’s cool but you’re running the risk of losing the locker room in the process. His stubbornness isn’t serving him right now 

[RING OF HONOR]

1 minute ago, A Dog Named Brian said:

That’s cool but you’re running the risk of losing the locker room in the process. His stubbornness isn’t serving him right now 

Agreed...  

Defense is still playing hard....but for how long...

[A Dog Named Brian]

1 minute ago, RING OF HONOR said:

Agreed...  

Defense is still playing hard....but for how long...

Don’t get me wrong, there’s other areas that need improvement too but I can’t help but wonder how we would be doing if we had a competent QB. Ridder might not be the guy either but he needs to start getting looks now to see what we have in him 

[JDaveG]

5 minutes ago, abcranford2 said:

I mean...or maybe he's developing just fine and Arthur doesn't want to mess that up by playing him too early. 

That's where I've been basically all season, until last night.

If he's worried about protecting him from a bad o-line, fine.  If he's worried about shaking his confidence, fine.  But at some point you have to give him a shot or you'll never know. You can ruin a QB by starting him too early, sure.  But you can also squander him by playing the part of the helicopter parent.

[RING OF HONOR]

Just now, A Dog Named Brian said:

Don’t get me wrong, there’s other areas that need improvement too but I can’t help but wonder how we would be doing if we had a competent QB. Ridder might not be the guy either but he needs to start getting looks now to see what we have in him 

I'm in agreement with everything you've said...

[Killing Floor]

10 minutes ago, A Dog Named Brian said:

we were lied to about his development

 

I’m a lifer fan and I can’t point to a single player who has had significant development under this regime. 

Mayfield?  Dalman?  Pitts?  Hawkins?  We don’t develop players. Maybe that’s the reason Ridder hasn’t played a down. Because in September the obvious answer was to start Mariota. 
 

Just how is Charles London going to mold Desmond Ridder into a better quarterback?  What knowledge is he going to impart?

[JDaveG]

10 minutes ago, Tribal Chief said:

There is one QB who's done it. In a major game lol

 

Not in any way to defend that, because the decision-making is just as bad, arguably worse.  But at least both of those throws were on target.

Mariota literally chucked a ball downfield while sitting on his *** looking the other way.  That's a level of horribleness I didn't think I'd ever see.

[Tribal Chief]

Just now, JDaveG said:

Not in any way to defend that, because the decision-making is just as bad, arguably worse.  But at least both of those throws were on target.

Mariota literally chucked a ball downfield while sitting on his *** looking the other way.  That's a level of horribleness I didn't think I'd ever see.

Oh I just saw a clip on Twitter for the first time. Not something a starting quarterback should be doing at all

[A Dog Named Brian]

 

3 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

That's where I've been basically all season, until last night.

If he's worried about protecting him from a bad o-line, fine.  If he's worried about shaking his confidence, fine.  But at some point you have to give him a shot or you'll never know. You can ruin a QB by starting him too early, sure.  But you can also squander him by playing the part of the helicopter parent.

This needs to be talked about more, and is an excellent point. Spot on my friend 

[Ghosts of Glanville]

After last night I realized that we can A) have a rookie make rookie mistakes or B ) have a seven year veteran make rookie mistakes.   At least option A has a chance for improvement 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Ghosts of Glanville

[A Dog Named Brian]

3 minutes ago, Killing Floor said:

 

I’m a lifer fan and I can’t point to a single player who has had significant development under this regime. 

Mayfield?  Dalman?  Pitts?  Hawkins?  We don’t develop players. Maybe that’s the reason Ridder hasn’t played a down. Because in September the obvious answer was to start Mariota. 
 

Just how is Charles London going to mold Desmond Ridder into a better quarterback?  What knowledge is he going to impart?

Unfortunately this is the hades of not knowing what’s going on behind closed doors. I think Art is a good coach but again, his stubbornness is starting to show. 

[JDaveG]

2 minutes ago, Killing Floor said:

 

I’m a lifer fan and I can’t point to a single player who has had significant development under this regime. 

Mayfield?  Dalman?  Pitts?  Hawkins?  We don’t develop players. Maybe that’s the reason Ridder hasn’t played a down. Because in September the obvious answer was to start Mariota. 
 

Just how is Charles London going to mold Desmond Ridder into a better quarterback?  What knowledge is he going to impart?

Richie Grant.  Taquon Graham.  Caleb Huntley.  Darren Hall (not a great player but better than anyone thought he was going to be after being drafted).  Avery Williams.  Cordarelle Patterson, though granted it's not so much "developing" him as figuring out a way to use him that no one else had been able to do.

I'm not even mentioning Pitts (because he's struggling this season even though I think that's the QB more than him), or London, or Allgeier (because they're rookies and maybe that's just who they always were).  Same to a lesser extent with guys like Ebiketie, Malone and Andersen, though Andersen is probably developing just fine given the fact that he's seeing the field on defensive snaps with mixed results.  He was awfully raw coming out.

There are others.  I honestly don't think they're bad at developing players.  The thing is, they just don't have many players.

[g-dawg]

26 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

I've been saying most of the season that Mariota was playing well enough to hold the job and let Ridder hold the clipboard.  Last night, though, was just atrocious.  Horrible.  Worst QB play I've seen from this team since AT LEAST 2007, and honestly, Joey Harrington would do better than Mariota did last night most games.

Granted, it's one game.  Granted, Mariota was harassed all night.  Granted, the protection wasn't there.  But you cannot throw up some of the ducks he was throwing up last night and expect to win.  A couple were just "Hail Mary punts."  But several were just horrible throws that he never should have let go of, culminating in the lawn chair bomb he threw and was lucky to get back because he was already down when he threw it.

Mariota isn't seeing the field, isn't finding the open man, and is trying to do too much even when he knows, or should know, that he cannot possibly make the play he's trying to make.  Throwing across his body over the middle, heaving up passes and hoping they land, and missing WIDE OPEN targets on short, easy, gimme throws.  He's shook.  Ridder might not be any better, but he can't be any worse.  The Panthers started PJ Walker last night, and won.  If Ridder can't be at least as good as him, then we need to know that right now.  And even if they think they already know that, he surely can't be any worse than Mariota is.  I can take some of this crap from a rookie.  It is just inexcusable for an 8 year vet.

I get the argument that Mariota is loved in the locker room, but at some point when one guy keeps lobbing grenades into his own bunker, the rest of the unit is going to tune out.  If you think you're going to lose the locker room by benching him, my counter-argument is you're going to lose it starting him so you might as well lose it with a chance to get it back.

Start.  Ridder.  Now.

 

^^^Mariota

[g-dawg]

We have a Vet QB playing like a rookie.

All reasons not to start Ridder now have evaporated.