I can’t believe I’m saying this, but after watching Ridder all preseason, I want him start sooner than later. He has traits of elite QBs. Videos linked

[vaskeet]

13 minutes ago, gazoo said:

They attribute the win to Ridder in the two games apparently.

maybe I did not l did not look at who got the win (baseball stat) the 50 games does not happen because most only play 3 years not 4 I would assume he did not start in his 1st 2 games of his freshman year. I think he is in the correct system for his skill set so he has the best chance to succeed Unlike Mariota where they tried to make him fit into the wrong system. If nothing else Mariota will help him develop and learn the system. If he had gone to Tenn he would not have as much sucess. Vrabel benched Willis for running in preseason and Tannerhill said he would not mentor him  

[vaskeet]

12 minutes ago, gazoo said:

That’s part of it, but there is a whole lot more that goes into grading the individual play of a QB in college and how those skills might transfer to NFL than that.

Agree and the system they go to makes a difference in how and if they can transition. Until the broken leg (pulled down in pocket from behind ) Mariota was a up and coming Star QB 

[Rings]

10 hours ago, Lornoth said:

We won't know what we have in Ridder no matter how much he plays this year. Plenty of QB's reverse course following their rookie season. Nothing he does should impact our decision to draft a QB or not next year. 

From a physical standpoint I would agree, from a coaching, decision making, learning stand point I would not.  If they get through this year and think they really have something with him, take top edge or tackle, if none there trade back and rebuild this team.  Nothing tells us any of the QBs in next years draft are guarantees either.  If they see enough to feel he could be the guy, go for it.  I’m not saying he is by any means, but the worst thing would be that they don’t see enough and pass on a QB hoping when they give Ridder the keys he would be that guy and he isn’t.  Gotta get him some exposure this year.

[gazoo]

30 minutes ago, vaskeet said:

maybe I did not l did not look at who got the win (baseball stat) the 50 games does not happen because most only play 3 years not 4 I would assume he did not start in his 1st 2 games of his freshman year. I think he is in the correct system for his skill set so he has the best chance to succeed Unlike Mariota where they tried to make him fit into the wrong system. If nothing else Mariota will help him develop and learn the system. If he had gone to Tenn he would not have as much sucess. Vrabel benched Willis for running in preseason and Tannerhill said he would not mentor him  

I have maintained for years that wins and losses are are franchise stat. It bugs the heck out of me when people think there is only 1 player on each team, as if it’s a game of singles in tennis.

That said, any QB who had that many starts (or had a 44-6 record) and superlative winning percentage for a team like Cincinnati Bearcats, who plays  against a lot of strong college teams, has weight, just as if said QB had a 6-44 record it would mean something to me. Not dispositive, just a piece of the bigger puzzle.

I will admit I have a limited sample size of watching snaps of Mariota the last two seasons. What I saw in preseason bothered me that he didn’t seem to see the field, would get jittery and take off if primary read was covered. Not every snap, but a lot of them. With Ridder, just like in college, Ridder was going through his progressions. Ridder often knew in preseason and in college where he was going with the ball presnap. This is a trait of the elite QBs. Not saying Ridder will be elite or even successful, just saying the cognitive trait in reading defenses and also an intuitive pocket presence are trAits of the elites, and I do see these two intangibles in Ridder. He’s still got a lot to learn though.

I would be thrilled if Mariota shows me he can also dissect defenses from the pocket first, go through his progressions and get the ball out on time consistently. I would be thrilled if BOTH of them can do this.

 

[vaskeet]

28 minutes ago, gazoo said:

I have maintained for years that wins and losses are are franchise stat. It bugs the heck out of me when people think there is only 1 player on each team, as if it’s a game of singles in tennis.

That said, any QB who had that many starts (or had a 44-6 record) and superlative winning percentage for a team like Cincinnati Bearcats, who plays  against a lot of strong college teams, has weight, just as if said QB had a 6-44 record it would mean something to me. Not dispositive, just a piece of the bigger puzzle.

I will admit I have a limited sample size of watching snaps of Mariota the last two seasons. What I saw in preseason bothered me that he didn’t seem to see the field, would get jittery and take off if primary read was covered. Not every snap, but a lot of them. With Ridder, just like in college, Ridder was going through his progressions. Ridder often knew in preseason and in college where he was going with the ball presnap. This is a trait of the elite QBs. Not saying Ridder will be elite or even successful, just saying the cognitive trait in reading defenses and also an intuitive pocket presence are trAits of the elites, and I do see these two intangibles in Ridder. He’s still got a lot to learn though.

I would be thrilled if Mariota shows me he can also dissect defenses from the pocket first, go through his progressions and get the ball out on time consistently. I would be thrilled if BOTH of them can do this.

 

His last to seasons were under Vrabel and they had a system that did not fit the personal that tenn had. I also think that Mariota never got a chance to get healthy His 1st 2 years he was 45 TD -19 Int and a 62% completion rate his 3rd season was a strange season as he had a 62 % completion rate over 3200 yards but only 13 TDs that was the year after the broken leg. it appeared that he could not drive off the leg when throwing but again all the numbers looked good except TD and INT. I am rooting for him and think if they let him pay like Mariota they will find a lot of sucess 

Edited September 2, 2022 by vaskeet

[gazoo]

3 minutes ago, vaskeet said:

His last to seasons were under Vrabel and they had a system that did not fit the personal that tenn had. I also think that Mariota never got a chance to get healthy His 1st 2 years he was 45 TD -19 Int and a 62% completion rate his 3rd season was a strange season as he had a 62 % completion rate over 3200 yards but only 13 TDs that was the year after the broken leg. it appeared that he could not drive off the leg when throwing but again all the numbers looked good except TD and INT. I am rooting for him and think if they let him pay like Mariota they will find a lot of sucess 

Interesting, you’ve followed Mariota much closer than I have so this is all good info and that’s a good observation in bold. I don’t have a big enough sample size of snaps to draw conclusions on the cognitive side of Mariota game, so my take on him may be way off. I’ve hyper focused on Ridder so my take on him has more weight.
 

No matter how this goes I’m super excited to get this season underway and absolutely will be fair to Mariota. I don’t dog a player simply becuase I want to see another behind him playing. 

 

 

[Lornoth]

12 hours ago, Rings said:

From a physical standpoint I would agree, from a coaching, decision making, learning stand point I would not.  If they get through this year and think they really have something with him, take top edge or tackle, if none there trade back and rebuild this team.  Nothing tells us any of the QBs in next years draft are guarantees either.  If they see enough to feel he could be the guy, go for it.  I’m not saying he is by any means, but the worst thing would be that they don’t see enough and pass on a QB hoping when they give Ridder the keys he would be that guy and he isn’t.  Gotta get him some exposure this year.

I think even if he struggled this year you don't give up on him and draft another QB. You gotta give him time to develop or what was the point spending a third on him anyway. We have plenty of holes on this team that I'm sure we can spend a high round pick on another position without wasting it. 

[Rings]

14 minutes ago, Lornoth said:

I think even if he struggled this year you don't give up on him and draft another QB. You gotta give him time to develop or what was the point spending a third on him anyway. We have plenty of holes on this team that I'm sure we can spend a high round pick on another position without wasting it. 

How many QBs in the third actually pan out?  They are outliers.  It’s worth taking the risk because the payoff if you do hit is insane.  If they end up killing it then you have your guy and you look like a genius, if they are just okay you have a really cheap backup QB which is still valuable, if in a couple of years you want to upgrade you can trade them as there is always demand for mediocre QB play (see Carson Wentz) and if they walk after four years and someone else pays them you are getting a 3rd round comp pick back in return so it’s at worst a wash to rent a QB for four years.

Normally if it is going to be the guy you hitch your wagon to in the future, you know in year one.  Now you don’t know how high the ceiling is or if the wheels may fall off said wagon, but you know if you are willing to put your job on the line for them to be the face of your franchise. Time to sit back and observe is something fans have, it’s not something the coaching staff has.  They need to win or they won’t be around long.  I agree that there are holes everywhere and we need to keep adding talent, but if they don’t know and Ridder isn’t the guy, not only are they drafting top 10 next year…they may also be drafting top 10 the year after that.  Fair or not, Scary Terry may not be GM for long if we have four drafts in a row picking top ten.

[Lornoth]

4 minutes ago, Rings said:

How many QBs in the third actually pan out?  They are outliers.  It’s worth taking the risk because the payoff if you do hit is insane.  If they end up killing it then you have your guy and you look like a genius, if they are just okay you have a really cheap backup QB which is still valuable, if in a couple of years you want to upgrade you can trade them as there is always demand for mediocre QB play (see Carson Wentz) and if they walk after four years and someone else pays them you are getting a 3rd round comp pick back in return so it’s at worst a wash to rent a QB for four years.

Normally if it is going to be the guy you hitch your wagon to in the future, you know in year one.  Now you don’t know how high the ceiling is or if the wheels may fall off said wagon, but you know if you are willing to put your job on the line for them to be the face of your franchise. Time to sit back and observe is something fans have, it’s not something the coaching staff has.  They need to win or they won’t be around long.  I agree that there are holes everywhere and we need to keep adding talent, but if they don’t know and Ridder isn’t the guy, not only are they drafting top 10 next year…they may also be drafting top 10 the year after that.  Fair or not, Scary Terry may not be GM for long if we have four drafts in a row picking top ten.

I think rushing things is the way bad franchises stay bad. Whether it's coaches, GM's, or players, you have to give guys some time. If these guys are hurried to get good fast it probably won't happen in a good way. Blank is usually patient with these things. If we draft top ten again next year we can always just draft a QB then. I'd rather give Ridder a real shot to grow than throw more premium picks at the dart board for a QB, especially since he was drafted with the understanding he wasn't ready to start right away.

But I understand the point about that being easy to say as a fan. 

[Rings]

40 minutes ago, Lornoth said:

I think rushing things is the way bad franchises stay bad. Whether it's coaches, GM's, or players, you have to give guys some time. If these guys are hurried to get good fast it probably won't happen in a good way. Blank is usually patient with these things. If we draft top ten again next year we can always just draft a QB then. I'd rather give Ridder a real shot to grow than throw more premium picks at the dart board for a QB, especially since he was drafted with the understanding he wasn't ready to start right away.

But I understand the point about that being easy to say as a fan. 

Don’t disagree.  My point is if we hit mid season and we are say 2-6, we already know for the most part what Mariota has to offer, I’d want to see more Ridder.  We have a really late BYE this year in week 14, so to me that’s too late, however after Week 10’s Thursday night game, wouldn’t mind making the switch there and give a mini bye to get ready and play in 7 games just to see what he has and more importantly if he improves as the year progresses.  My favorite thing about him is that when he has made a mistake in pre-season is that he adjusts quickly and hasn’t made it again.  Granted it’s been a small sample size, but that’s been exciting.

[Tribal Chief]

3 minutes ago, Rings said:

Don’t disagree.  My point is if we hit mid season and we are say 2-6, we already know for the most part what Mariota has to offer, I’d want to see more Ridder.  We have a really late BYE this year in week 14, so to me that’s too late, however after Week 10’s Thursday night game, wouldn’t mind making the switch there and give a mini bye to get ready and play in 7 games just to see what he has and more importantly if he improves as the year progresses.  My favorite thing about him is that when he has made a mistake in pre-season is that he adjusts quickly and hasn’t made it again.  Granted it’s been a small sample size, but that’s been exciting.

What if Mariota is actually playing out of his mind and the defense can't hold a lead, leading to that 2-6 record? We've seen this far too many times over the years

[Realsurfin]

56 minutes ago, Tribal Chief said:

What if Mariota is actually playing out of his mind and the defense can't hold a lead, leading to that 2-6 record? We've seen this far too many times over the years

Also a good point but IMHO, our Oline might be where we have the problems.  I just don't see them being much better.  They got Matty crucified on a weekly basis.  Matty was bulletproof.  Marcus not so much.  We might see Ridder sooner than we want.

[Mescalito]

I have to say, it's a pretty **** good feeling to know that we have Ridder waiting in the wings in case something happens to Mariota.  It's not like having a Benkert or Doug Johnson type back there where as our season would be virtually over if they had to take over starting duties.

[Godzilla1985]

The thing about a Ridder from my observation is he has put work in on his mechanics.  It was said he had questionable accuracy and good not great arm strength due to poor mechanics.  His limited work in preseason indicates he has already improved his arm strength.  That. Speaks volumes to me.  He’s a worker with enough talent and IQ to be elite.  Hope we see him some this season but if Smith wants him to sit and get better so be it.  Either way I’m excited for our future.  

[gazoo]

1 hour ago, Mescalito said:

I have to say, it's a pretty **** good feeling to know that we have Ridder waiting in the wings in case something happens to Mariota.  It's not like having a Benkert or Doug Johnson type back there where as our season would be virtually over if they had to take over starting duties.

Yeah, having backups like Tony Graziani didn’t give us comfort over the years. 

[Lornoth]

9 hours ago, Rings said:

Don’t disagree.  My point is if we hit mid season and we are say 2-6, we already know for the most part what Mariota has to offer, I’d want to see more Ridder.  We have a really late BYE this year in week 14, so to me that’s too late, however after Week 10’s Thursday night game, wouldn’t mind making the switch there and give a mini bye to get ready and play in 7 games just to see what he has and more importantly if he improves as the year progresses.  My favorite thing about him is that when he has made a mistake in pre-season is that he adjusts quickly and hasn’t made it again.  Granted it’s been a small sample size, but that’s been exciting.

If the coaches feel he's ready I have no issue with Ridder starting. My only disagreement was that they should force him to start so they can quickly render judgement and change their draft strategy based off it. The actual answer is even if you think Ridder is the guy, if you love a QB who falls into your lap in the top 10 you take him too. BPA baby.

[Rings]

23 hours ago, Tribal Chief said:

What if Mariota is actually playing out of his mind and the defense can't hold a lead, leading to that 2-6 record? We've seen this far too many times over the years

I was more or less saying if we are out of playoff contention and don’t see it turning around, using the season to at least know what you have going into next year.  Mariota may play well, but he more than likely isn’t the long term solution.  Then again, I’ll be impressed if Mariota isn’t injured by week 8 🤣

[Rings]

14 hours ago, Lornoth said:

If the coaches feel he's ready I have no issue with Ridder starting. My only disagreement was that they should force him to start so they can quickly render judgement and change their draft strategy based off it. The actual answer is even if you think Ridder is the guy, if you love a QB who falls into your lap in the top 10 you take him too. BPA baby.

In that scenario I’d try to get a ransom from someone else who loved that QB.  Then you would have 3-5 BPA.  Haha.  

[Tribal Chief]

1 hour ago, Rings said:

I was more or less saying if we are out of playoff contention and don’t see it turning around, using the season to at least know what you have going into next year.  Mariota may play well, but he more than likely isn’t the long term solution.  Then again, I’ll be impressed if Mariota isn’t injured by week 8 🤣

I get what you're saying. My problem with that is it kinda sends a bad message to the team pulling a player out of the starting spot who isn't playing bad *if* it went that way, no matter what the record is. How would it have looked over the past 4 years if Ryan was yanked from his starting gig because his defense couldn't protect a last minute score vs the Saints? 

The other thing to look at is it may hinder triggers for bonus money in his contract yanking him for no reason. Looming free agents take that kind of thing into consideration when looking to sign with a new team. 

Bottom line is the staff knows exactly what they have in Ridder. He'll get his shine as soon as they think he's ready to handle the load. Fans just gotta wait and hope the current starting group can get the job done. If that means Mariota playing bad, by all means yank away. 

[richardc]

I agree he looked good in preseason.  I’m hopeful he will continue to develop, but I’m glad he’s not our starting QB week 1 or even this year.   
 

His preseason looked good, but it was mostly against 2nd and 3rd string defenses who were playing more basic defenses.  Week 1 and behind, you are playing against 11 of the best NFL players available who are backed by 2 weeks of Film watching and defensive scheming to limit what you do well and exploit what you don’t do well.  
 

Yes, I also see the flashes and playmaker ability, but let him learn, develop and become that player he can be.  
 

just my $0.02

[Rings]

3 hours ago, Tribal Chief said:

I get what you're saying. My problem with that is it kinda sends a bad message to the team pulling a player out of the starting spot who isn't playing bad *if* it went that way, no matter what the record is. How would it have looked over the past 4 years if Ryan was yanked from his starting gig because his defense couldn't protect a last minute score vs the Saints? 

The other thing to look at is it may hinder triggers for bonus money in his contract yanking him for no reason. Looming free agents take that kind of thing into consideration when looking to sign with a new team. 

Bottom line is the staff knows exactly what they have in Ridder. He'll get his shine as soon as they think he's ready to handle the load. Fans just gotta wait and hope the current starting group can get the job done. If that means Mariota playing bad, by all means yank away. 

Very good points, although we had no one behind Ryan we were trying to get a look at, but regardless good points.  
 

I, however don’t think the staff will know exactly what they have in Ridder unless he gets in game reps and reps with the first team in practice.  In game scenarios, reading an opponents defense that changes every week and how they prep and adjust for that are very different from practicing against our probably not very good defense.  We also played probably three bottom 5-10 teams in the preseason and all three times Ridder played against all or mostly backups.  Smith has said time and time again it’s a competition and not Mariota’s spot to lose, if it’s close still at mid season I think you gotta see how the rook looks UNLESS Mariota is playing lights out, or the gap between the two is bigger than we think.

You know that first double INT game at home that Mariota has that Ridder chants are gonna start.  

[Tribal Chief]

1 minute ago, Rings said:

Very good points, although we had no one behind Ryan we were trying to get a look at, but regardless good points.  
 

I, however don’t think the staff will know exactly what they have in Ridder unless he gets in game reps and reps with the first team in practice.  In game scenarios, reading an opponents defense that changes every week and how they prep and adjust for that are very different from practicing against our probably not very good defense.  We also played probably three bottom 5-10 teams in the preseason and all three times Ridder played against all or mostly backups.  Smith has said time and time again it’s a competition and not Mariota’s spot to lose, if it’s close still at mid season I think you gotta see how the rook looks UNLESS Mariota is playing lights out, or the gap between the two is bigger than we think.

You know that first double INT game at home that Mariota has that Ridder chants are gonna start.  

They see all of that in practice. Like I said, if Mariota plays to a level that actually warrants a demotion, by all means yank him ASAP. 

To counter the bolded, knowing how backwards the fan base is, the first double INT game from Ridder will bring about Young and Stroud chants. 

[Libid21]

Good to see you on here again @gazoo. I agree with you. Ridder definitely has the traits to be a very capable quarterback in this league. I wasn't so sure at first, but he's definitely made me more of a believer this preseason. I question this offensive line's ability to showcase what we have in Ridder though. Of course I want to see what he (and Mariota) have before jumping on the "Draft a QB" bandwagon. But would we even get a fair evaluation for either of them if this offensive line is as bad as it's anticipated to be?

[gazoo]

8 hours ago, Libid21 said:

Good to see you on here again @gazoo. I agree with you. Ridder definitely has the traits to be a very capable quarterback in this league. I wasn't so sure at first, but he's definitely made me more of a believer this preseason. I question this offensive line's ability to showcase what we have in Ridder though. Of course I want to see what he (and Mariota) have before jumping on the "Draft a QB" bandwagon. But would we even get a fair evaluation for either of them if this offensive line is as bad as it's anticipated to be?

What’s up my brother? Good to see you popping in.

[SavedByGrace1221]

On 8/31/2022 at 2:12 PM, thanat0s said:

He might or might not be that guy, but MM1 hasn't given me any reason to doubt he can get the job done, and as long as the team is competing for a playoff spot, I'm not looking to upset the apple cart.

Now, if we are out of it by midseason, sure, might as well let him get some live fire under his belt.