Possible solution at TE

[PokerSteve]

On 8/31/2022 at 9:27 AM, Falcons_Frenzy said:

I'd like to see the Falcons actually upgrade the trenches and be successful at it. For once. 

I like the new HC and GM, but I haven't seen any real effort on their part to upgrade the OL with any proven players this off-season. They cut Shaeffer and Wilkinson is JAG. Hennessy and Dalman are bottom tier, McGary isn't exactly all-world either. 

[PriMeTiiMe]

4 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

I like the new HC and GM, but I haven't seen any real effort on their part to upgrade the OL with any proven players this off-season. They cut Shaeffer and Wilkinson is JAG. Hennessy and Dalman are bottom tier, McGary isn't exactly all-world either. 

They are letting the guys sink or swim. If they sink they will splurge on O-line in free agency/draft next offseason when we have plenty of cash to throw around.

Look at what the Bengals did this offseason to fix the O-line - We will follow a similar path probably.

[blutarski]

1 minute ago, PokerSteve said:

I like the new HC and GM, but I haven't seen any real effort on their part to upgrade the OL with any proven players this off-season. They cut Shaeffer and Wilkinson is JAG. Hennessy and Dalman are bottom tier, McGary isn't exactly all-world either. 

Well, to be fair, we didn't have a whole lot of $$ to invest in the OL, and i'm sure their plans include the upgrades when the resources are available.  I think the verdict is still out on Shaffer, Hennessy and Dalman, since all three are on rookie contracts, and developing.  They didn't pickup McGary's 5th year option, so he's on a make or break contract year. Wilkinson was brought in to compete, and won the job, but he is exactly what we have money for, solid pro that comes cheap on a prove it deal.  Just don't know what "proven players" were out there, that we could afford.

[PokerSteve]

2 minutes ago, blutarski said:

Well, to be fair, we didn't have a whole lot of $$ to invest in the OL, and i'm sure their plans include the upgrades when the resources are available.  I think the verdict is still out on Shaffer, Hennessy and Dalman, since all three are on rookie contracts, and developing.  They didn't pickup McGary's 5th year option, so he's on a make or break contract year. Wilkinson was brought in to compete, and won the job, but he is exactly what we have money for, solid pro that comes cheap on a prove it deal.  Just don't know what "proven players" were out there, that we could afford.

If I'm not mistaken they still have 7 or 8 million they haven't spent yet? I think it's more like @PriMeTiiMe said, they're just going to go another year with the OL they have and let them sink or swim. We got two swimmers, one who can dog-paddle in shallow water, and two who must clutch their pool noodles tightly to stay afloat. 

Maybe Wilkinson will improve as he gets acclimated. So far he hasn't shown anything and I'm no longer looking at him as a "keeper" even for this season. Really hope they still plan to bring in somebody before the season starts though.

[Herr Doktor]

1 minute ago, PokerSteve said:

If I'm not mistaken they still have 7 or 8 million they haven't spent yet? I think it's more like @PriMeTiiMe said, they're just going to go another year with the OL they have and let them sink or swim. We got two swimmers, one who can dog-paddle in shallow water, and two who must clutch their pool noodles tightly to stay afloat. 

Maybe Wilkinson will improve as he gets acclimated. So far he hasn't shown anything and I'm no longer looking at him as a "keeper" even for this season. Really hope they still plan to bring in somebody before the season starts though.

Wilkinson has always been decent depth.  He has looked better than Mayfield overall, but really that isn't saying a great deal.  I would love to have seen another decent guard brought in.

[PokerSteve]

2 minutes ago, Herr Doktor said:

Wilkinson has always been decent depth.  He has looked better than Mayfield overall, but really that isn't saying a great deal.  I would love to have seen another decent guard brought in.

Agree. I like Wilkinson as a back-up. He's a guy that maybe could hold his own surrounded by a good OL, but he's not the player who's going to be the glue that holds together a bad OL. 

[blutarski]

3 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

Agree. I like Wilkinson as a back-up. He's a guy that maybe could hold his own surrounded by a good OL, but he's not the player who's going to be the glue that holds together a bad OL. 

I don't think there is a free agent player out there that would meet this criteria, but I know what you mean.  I think the FO brought in Wilkinson to compete, which he did, and he has been solid through camp and preseason.  Not really any free agents that would come in and undoubtedly take his spot either.  I know Daryl Williams is available, but not sure he is guarantee step up, and not sure at what cost.

[deester11]

At this point, Giesicki is a hood ornament that is not needed.  He has spent this camp learning how to block and put more effort into it with mixed results to say the least.  His price tag and fit aren't enticing IMHO.

[Killing Floor]

We have Franks. What more do you want?

[Falcons_Frenzy]

2 hours ago, PokerSteve said:

I like the new HC and GM, but I haven't seen any real effort on their part to upgrade the OL with any proven players this off-season. They cut Shaeffer and Wilkinson is JAG. Hennessy and Dalman are bottom tier, McGary isn't exactly all-world either. 

Yep. I have a theory. It starts and ends with Mr. Blank. I don't see any difference in draft philosophy or team building since I became a fan around 2001ish. Also, every year Blank drops a hint at what he wants in the draft and it has always happened. This past year was a QB. Hey it's his team. As a fan? Very frustrating. 

[Sidecar Falcon]

3 hours ago, blutarski said:

He is going to be looking for top 15 money, he's on the franchise tag for 2022 ($10 mil).  Have to assume he is asking for at least 7-8 Mil averaged a year, but he'll be looking for long term deal.  That's a pretty expensive "backup" option to Pitts, when they pretty much have the same skill set.  I just don't think it's feasible.  Totally agree he could fill the role of Pitts better than Hesse or Franks, but our money is better spent somewhere else, where we don't already have a superstar on a rookie contract.  Not to mention, in 2024, we'll need to pony up for Pitts.

He wouldn’t be a “backup” option. We would use two tight end sets heavily. It’s odd that with today’s NFL and how we want weapons, people still have this antiquated ideology that having two top tier tight ends isn’t feasible, but having multiple high priced mid-tier WRs is. If they can catch the ball and stretch the field, they are just as good as a WR.

7-8 million dollars would be peanuts compared to top 15 WR salaries, not to mention an absolute steal for Gesicki. To put it into perspective; Zay Jones makes 8 million a year. Who would you rather have?

Even if he wants 10 million a year that would put him in Russell Gage, DJ Chark, Marquez Valdez-Scantling, and Tim Patrick territory. So a mid-tier (at best) WR, or a top tier TE; which would you rather have?

Right now we have no other viable receiving threat other than Pitts. Patterson is good but he’s pulling double duty, London is a rookie, and Edwards still has to prove it. 

I’m not worried about Pitts contract. We can address that in 2025. We are projected to have 131-136 million dollars of cap space in 2023. So the money is there. We aren’t penny pinching anymore. That doesn’t mean we go on a spending spree; but Gesicki is well within the budget.

[Sidecar Falcon]

2 hours ago, 1989Fan said:

My guess is he will be looking for top 5 TE money. That’s just how it goes with these ever increasing contracts for upper echelon players. My default pick is for Bill B to make a run for him, as cliche as it is. Prototypical move TE with elite athleticism…like Aaron Hernandez, but without all the murder stuff…

The rumor is that he’ll want 10-13 million a year. At 10 million a year that would put him in the Taysom Hill, Zach Ertz, and Dalton Shultz territory. So basically top 8-10. At 13 million a year her would be too 6 behind Njoku; a bit above Smith and Henry. Not exactly back breaking compared to other receivers contracts.

[1989Fan]

22 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

The rumor is that he’ll want 10-13 million a year. At 10 million a year that would put him in the Taysom Hill, Zach Ertz, and Dalton Shultz territory. So basically top 8-10. At 13 million a year her would be too 6 behind Njoku; a bit above Smith and Henry. Not exactly back breaking compared to other receivers contracts.

Looking at our lines, I struggle to see them giving MG 10-13 per season..and I am a PSU guy. Especially since Smith emphasized blocking to receivers and TEs, and MG has never been a willing and able blocker. That’s why MIA is considering moving on from what I read. Not to mention trade a 2nd round pick or so to get him. If we didn’t have Pitts…sign me up. But we do, and don’t need tow of the same guy, just my opinion.

[Sidecar Falcon]

Just now, 1989Fan said:

Looking at our lines, I struggle to pay MG 10-13 per season..and I am a PSU guy. Not to mention trade a 2nd round pick or so to get him.

131-136 million in free cap. Gesicki would be on the books and we can get Ridley off. We’d still have more than enough money for upgrading the lines. It’s not an issue. 

[blutarski]

28 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

He wouldn’t be a “backup” option. We would use two tight end sets heavily. It’s odd that with today’s NFL and how we want weapons, people still have this antiquated ideology that having two top tier tight ends isn’t feasible, but having multiple high priced mid-tier WRs is. If they can catch the ball and stretch the field, they are just as good as a WR.

7-8 million dollars would be peanuts compared to top 15 WR salaries, not to mention an absolute steal for Gesicki. To put it into perspective; Zay Jones makes 8 million a year. Who would you rather have?

Even if he wants 10 million a year that would put him in Russell Gage, DJ Chark, Marquez Valdez-Scantling, and Tim Patrick territory. So a mid-tier (at best) WR, or a top tier TE; which would you rather have?

Right now we have no other viable receiving threat other than Pitts. Patterson is good but he’s pulling double duty, London is a rookie, and Edwards still has to prove it. 

I’m not worried about Pitts contract. We can address that in 2025. We are projected to have 131-136 million dollars of cap space in 2023. So the money is there. We aren’t penny pinching anymore. That doesn’t mean we go on a spending spree; but Gesicki is well within the budget.

Not that i'm looking at antiquated ideology, I just don't think Gesicki has the skill set that we're looking for, at that price range.  I would rather have a 2nd tier WR at that price, than Gesicki, as the WR has a different skill set to beat corners, and not safety/LB's.  I guess we're just in disagreement as to Gesicki's value to the Falcons, and how AS runs his offense.  

[1989Fan]

2 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

131-136 million in free cap. Gesicki would be on the books and we can get Ridley off. We’d still have more than enough money for upgrading the lines. It’s not an issue. 

I edited my response…won’t say it all again, but they want to trade him, it’s more than just the contract. If he is a FA next season maybe. I know you will remain firm in your stance and that’s fine. I just don’t see it happening.

[Sidecar Falcon]

1 minute ago, blutarski said:

Not that i'm looking at antiquated ideology, I just don't think Gesicki has the skill set that we're looking for, at that price range.  I would rather have a 2nd tier WR at that price, than Gesicki, as the WR has a different skill set to beat corners, and not safety/LB's.  I guess we're just in disagreement as to Gesicki's value to the Falcons, and how AS runs his offense.  

Gesicki’s skillset is similar to Kyle Pitts.  To say that his skillset isn’t what we’re looking for is saying isn’t accurate.

Coming into the league the biggest knock on Pitts was his blocking. Smith coached that up; he could do the same for Gesicki.

Gesicki has the ability to play inside and outside. He’s more versatile than a 2nd tier WR and much more dangerous. 

[Sidecar Falcon]

20 hours ago, 1989Fan said:

I edited my response…won’t say it all again, but they want to trade him, it’s more than just the contract. If he is a FA next season maybe. I know you will remain firm in your stance and that’s fine. I just don’t see it happening.

Whether it happens, or doesn’t happen is irrelevant. The reasons given as to why it won’t happen just don’t hold water.

[Sidecar Falcon]

22 hours ago, 1989Fan said:

Looking at our lines, I struggle to see them giving MG 10-13 per season..and I am a PSU guy. Especially since Smith emphasized blocking to receivers and TEs, and MG has never been a willing and able blocker. That’s why MIA is considering moving on from what I read. Not to mention trade a 2nd round pick or so to get him. If we didn’t have Pitts…sign me up. But we do, and don’t need tow of the same guy, just my opinion.

It’s odd that blocking is now such a hot button talking point. (in general)

Coming into the 2021 NFL draft there was a good contingent of people that questioned Pitts blocking (he was deemed  a “willing blocker” and if an incomplete TE would be worth the 4th overall pick. It was assured by TAFT aficionados that Smith’s scheme didn’t require him to block and that Smith could coach up blocking if it did. That because he is a weapon, it was worth it. (There is crossover in this thread with these posters). Smith did his job in coaching it up. 

One year later; all of a sudden blocking is a huge issue and we require all our TEs to do it. And now it would prevent us from getting Gesicki? Who is a weapon as well. Again, doesn’t hold water.

Pitts’ blocking improved in one year under Smith. Since entering the NFL Gesicki has had 2 HCs and 6 OCs (last year he had 2 co-coordinators). Of those 6 OCs only one (Smith, but really McDaniel) has required him to really block. So it stands to reason that his blocking is called into question. He’s never been asked to, and he’s never had consistency in duties from OCs.

Nothing I’ve seen (watch Dolphins consistently), read, or have been told (best friend is a Dolphins fanatic) has ever mentioned he was “unwilling” to block. 

It’s odd you chose a 2nd round pick as his compensation; and that you allude to you being opposed to that idea. When you were ok with us trading a 2nd for Hayden Hurst. Who is/was: less talented, less productive, less athletic, more injured, and older. Not to mention that Ridley, Jones, and Gage were in the team when we did so. So why would Pitts hold us back?