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Cam traded for nothing, really??


thanat0s
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If those terms are what got Cam out of Atlanta, I'm not sure what on earth the point was. Are we just having a fire sale rather than trying to add? TS was just griping them about  not producing, and needing help, and we just give Cam to a big rival for nothing but a draft pick and a nobody player who's on the shelf for the year?

Somebody give me a rational reason for that move, because dang...

 

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Just now, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

That WOULD NOT have surprised me. 

The way he just seemed disinterested lately was telling me that his heart was no longer in ATL. 

But can’t say I can blame the kid.

Yep I just posted what I saw and edited the post above.

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31 minutes ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

We just made the Knicks A top five team in the East. 

I’m having a hard time thinking this makes us a better team. 

It doesn’t but I truly want to see what’s next!  Coach Nate not wanting to develop players is a problem for me too because what are we suppose to do keep recycling vets??

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1 hour ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

We just made the Knicks A top five team in the East. 

I’m having a hard time thinking this makes us a better team. 

I know people love Cam's upside, but I think we need to take a step back and look and what he *is* right now instead of just what we thought/hoped he would eventually be. He has not played good defense this year and is scoring 12 ppg on 40% shooting. He has an assist-to-turnover ratio below 1:1, and a net rating that is deep in the negatives (which is bad by itself, but especially so when you consider that his usage rate is up considerably from previous years). 

Thibs is a good coach and perhaps he can get more out of him than Nate did, but he's not making the Knicks a top 5 team this year unless he magically fixes his flaws overnight. 

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1 hour ago, blkbigdog35 said:

It doesn’t but I truly want to see what’s next!  Coach Nate not wanting to develop players is a problem for me too because what are we suppose to do keep recycling vets??

 

12 minutes ago, Expert Poster said:

I know people love Cam's upside, but I think we need to take a step back and look and what he *is* right now instead of just what we thought/hoped he would eventually be. He has not played good defense this year and is scoring 12 ppg on 40% shooting. He has an assist-to-turnover ratio below 1:1, and a net rating that is deep in the negatives (which is bad by itself, but especially so when you consider that his usage rate is up considerably from previous years). 

Thibs is a good coach and perhaps he can get more out of him than Nate did, but he's not making the Knicks a top 5 team this year unless he magically fixes his flaws overnight. 

I hope I am wrong and y’all are right. 
 

I maybe getting too caught up in the potential.

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1 hour ago, blkbigdog35 said:

It doesn’t but I truly want to see what’s next!  Coach Nate not wanting to develop players is a problem for me too because what are we suppose to do keep recycling vets??

I think the preseason quote from Nate is being read into a little too much. The idea was that we were a team that had proven it was on the doorstep of the NBA Finals, so we were going to play the guys who put us in that position. Obviously a lot of our core guys (Trae, JC, Hunter, Huerter, OO) are very young and playing major minutes, so it's not like they aren't developing guys. 

The difference between the Hawks and teams like the Rockets, Magic, Thunder, etc. is that the Hawks are trying to win now, which means they aren't going to prioritize the NBA experience of super raw young players over the objective of winning anymore. We did that a lot Trae's first couple years because the playoffs weren't a realistic objective yet. 

Of course we're going to keep drafting and developing players, but the young guys are going to have to earn their minutes instead of just being given them for the sake of development. On the other hand, if this season continues to spiral and we fall out of realistic playoff contention, I'd hope our rookies get some more action so we know what we have with those guys. 

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4 minutes ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

 

I hope I am wrong and y’all are right. 
 

I maybe getting too caught up in the potential.

It's easy to fall in love with Cam, so I get it. He has the body type and shows flashes that signal all-star potential. But he just hasn't put it together, and the year-over-year progress hasn't been what you'd hope to see. The defense has regressed, and the shooting and playmaking are still erratic. My guess is his scoring numbers will go up a little in NY because they have so few offensive weapons, but a change of scenery isn't going to fix everything for him. He's going to have to be self-motivated enough to polish his game significantly if he's going to be the kind of player he perceives himself as being. 

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2 hours ago, Expert Poster said:

I know people love Cam's upside, but I think we need to take a step back and look and what he *is* right now instead of just what we thought/hoped he would eventually be. He has not played good defense this year and is scoring 12 ppg on 40% shooting. He has an assist-to-turnover ratio below 1:1, and a net rating that is deep in the negatives (which is bad by itself, but especially so when you consider that his usage rate is up considerably from previous years). 

Thibs is a good coach and perhaps he can get more out of him than Nate did, but he's not making the Knicks a top 5 team this year unless he magically fixes his flaws overnight. 

Bro. You’ve been trying to get rid of Cam for at least a month now. And we got Knox and a protected pick? There better be something else in the works.

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3 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Bro. You’ve been trying to get rid of Cam for at least a month now. And we got Knox and a protected pick? There better be something else in the works.

Why do you like to make things up? I NEVER said I wanted to get rid of Cam. I've only ever said he was a logical piece to be moved if the Hawks were going to make a trade; I also emphasized that I wouldn't trade him for something less than a lottery pick or a player of greater value (which is why I've said multiple times I'm not a fan of the return we got in this deal). 

I also live in the real world, where it's been common knowledge that the Hawks have had Cam on the trade block dating back to the summer, so it doesn't come as a huge shock that he was ultimately dealt (and shouldn't come as a shock to anyone who's been paying attention). 

So, "bro," are you going to start debating in good faith, or should I put you on ignore? Because right now you're the only person I engage with on here who tries to ignore and distort what I post. 

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2 hours ago, Expert Poster said:

It's easy to fall in love with Cam, so I get it. He has the body type and shows flashes that signal all-star potential. But he just hasn't put it together, and the year-over-year progress hasn't been what you'd hope to see. The defense has regressed, and the shooting and playmaking are still erratic. My guess is his scoring numbers will go up a little in NY because they have so few offensive weapons, but a change of scenery isn't going to fix everything for him. He's going to have to be self-motivated enough to polish his game significantly if he's going to be the kind of player he perceives himself as being. 

But Knox and a pick we ain’t gonna get is better? Okie Dokie. This better be some part of a three-way deal.

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5 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

But Knox and a pick we ain’t gonna get is? Okie Dokie. This better be some part of a three-way deal.

Is what? Are you asking me if I think Kevin Knox is better than Reddish? Are you asking if I think this is a good deal? Because I've made my feelings about the trade known on this forum. Maybe you could actually bother to read instead of coming up with lazy strawmen to whine about. 

But here's the cliffs notes:

1. We didn't get nearly enough in return for Cam and should have held out for something better. I'm not happy with the trade at the moment.

2. If the pick is part of an upcoming trade package for an impact player, it may change my outlook on the move.

3. Of course, how Cam fares the rest of this year and beyond will heavily shape how the trade is viewed historically. I think he's going to be a solid rotational player but not a star. 

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16 minutes ago, Expert Poster said:

Why do you like to make things up? I NEVER said I wanted to get rid of Cam. I've only ever said he was a logical piece to be moved if the Hawks were going to make a trade; I also emphasized that I wouldn't trade him for something less than a lottery pick or a player of greater value (which is why I've said multiple times I'm not a fan of the return we got in this deal). 

I also live in the real world, where it's been common knowledge that the Hawks have had Cam on the trade block dating back to the summer, so it doesn't come as a huge shock that he was ultimately dealt (and shouldn't come as a shock to anyone who's been paying attention). 

So, "bro," are you going to start debating in good faith, or should I put you on ignore? Because right now you're the only person I engage with on here who tries to ignore and distort what I post. 

Put me on ignore if you have to. I’ll still be able to see your expert posts. Good luck with Knox and an unprotected pick from Charlotte who will probably beat us down and protect the pick.

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6 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Put me on ignore if you have to. I’ll still be able to see your expert posts. Good luck with Knox and an unprotected pick from Charlotte who will probably beat us down and protect the pick.

Lol. It's pretty fitting that the last post I'll see of yours is you ONCE AGAIN ignoring the content of my posts so that you can respond to your own imaginary idea of what I said. 

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2 hours ago, Expert Poster said:

I think the preseason quote from Nate is being read into a little too much. The idea was that we were a team that had proven it was on the doorstep of the NBA Finals, so we were going to play the guys who put us in that position. Obviously a lot of our core guys (Trae, JC, Hunter, Huerter, OO) are very young and playing major minutes, so it's not like they aren't developing guys. 

The difference between the Hawks and teams like the Rockets, Magic, Thunder, etc. is that the Hawks are trying to win now, which means they aren't going to prioritize the NBA experience of super raw young players over the objective of winning anymore. We did that a lot Trae's first couple years because the playoffs weren't a realistic objective yet. 

Of course we're going to keep drafting and developing players, but the young guys are going to have to earn their minutes instead of just being given them for the sake of development. On the other hand, if this season continues to spiral and we fall out of realistic playoff contention, I'd hope our rookies get some more action so we know what we have with those guys. 

Don’t get me wrong I see your point.  However I feel like some of your young guys are talented to get minutes.  When I look at our vets right now what are they really providing to the team.  Bogi and Gallo have been inconsistent and can’t guard anybody! Delon Wright I mean really we have to go with him to backup Trae?  These are just a few examples of why I feel like why can’t you give your young talented guys some minutes because you may be surprised what they can bring to the team.  

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11 hours ago, thanat0s said:

If those terms are what got Cam out of Atlanta, I'm not sure what on earth the point was. Are we just having a fire sale rather than trying to add? TS was just griping them about  not producing, and needing help, and we just give Cam to a big rival for nothing but a draft pick and a nobody player who's on the shelf for the year?

Somebody give me a rational reason for that move, because dang...

 

Metrics sites have him as a negative value player. That's the long and short of it. He's regressed badly, which isn't that shocking since there were always questions about his maturity alongside his shot. I never wanted us to draft him because I didn't think he'd turn out.

Like I said elsewhere, volume scorers via excessive attempts aren't a thing in the NBA now. We didn't get much for him because that's the conventional wisdom in the league. He's a wing shooting 40%. There's not a lot you can do with that if the guy's defending poorly as well.

Everyone sees the flashes, but the consistency isn't there. The light may never go on for him. I wouldn't want to be the Knicks as they pair him with Barrett, who is just as selfish with the ball.

 

ESPN's draft grade article has the real story of our season, though: "Atlanta's offensive rating drops by 14.9 points per 100 possessions with (Trae) Young on the bench."

 

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25 minutes ago, blkbigdog35 said:

Don’t get me wrong I see your point.  However I feel like some of your young guys are talented to get minutes.  When I look at our vets right now what are they really providing to the team.  Bogi and Gallo have been inconsistent and can’t guard anybody! Delon Wright I mean really we have to go with him to backup Trae?  These are just a few examples of why I feel like why can’t you give your young talented guys some minutes because you may be surprised what they can bring to the team.  

I like Delon, but he really should be an off-ball guard, not a PG. Schlenk messed up by not signing or trading for a true backup PG in the off-season. 

I think Bogi is due for a hot streak, but yeah, his defense has not been good at all this year, and Gallo should not be an everyday player anymore. If we don't add a legitimate backup PF before the deadline, I think I'd be inclined to just play small ball with the second unit as much as possible. 

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2 hours ago, Expert Poster said:

I like Delon, but he really should be an off-ball guard, not a PG. Schlenk messed up by not signing or trading for a true backup PG in the off-season. 

I think Bogi is due for a hot streak, but yeah, his defense has not been good at all this year, and Gallo should not be an everyday player anymore. If we don't add a legitimate backup PF before the deadline, I think I'd be inclined to just play small ball with the second unit as much as possible. 

Next few weeks should tell us a lot going forward so I’m going to keep trusting in Schlenk!  

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7 hours ago, Expert Poster said:

It's easy to fall in love with Cam, so I get it. He has the body type and shows flashes that signal all-star potential. But he just hasn't put it together, and the year-over-year progress hasn't been what you'd hope to see. The defense has regressed, and the shooting and playmaking are still erratic. My guess is his scoring numbers will go up a little in NY because they have so few offensive weapons, but a change of scenery isn't going to fix everything for him. He's going to have to be self-motivated enough to polish his game significantly if he's going to be the kind of player he perceives himself as being. 

My thing is that it’s not going to be his progression as much as it will be a fit type for NY.

Two things I see happening is that he will be needed more as well as only have to focus on offense with so many other defensive pieces around him. 

Plus the coach up there is a strict defensive guy.  

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13 minutes ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

My thing is that it’s not going to be his progression as much as it will be a fit type for NY.

Two things I see happening is that he will be needed more as well as only have to focus on offense with so many other defensive pieces around him. 

Plus the coach up there is a strict defensive guy.  

I definitely see him flourishing in NY and I just don’t get how some don’t see he was the second best wing on the team.  TS better have a plan!

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