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AJ Terrell


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9 hours ago, primetime said:

Revis was the last bonefide shut down corner and he did not get a lot of ints. Pure shutdown corners spend most of their time in man with their back to the qb shadowing the wr. Right now Ramsey is the closest and he also doesn’t get a tonne of ints. Fatboi is 100% correct in his assessment of shutdown corners and interception corners. They don’t go hand in hand and the last and greatest one was Prime. Forgetting his stupidly good raw athletic ability he also had very good hands unlike most dbs - hence he could actually play PR/KR/WR. I always loved Tru but he was a above average shutdown corner with skillet hands. Deangelo had much better hands but his coverage wasn’t as strong. I keep searching for the next Prime but it’s foolsgold. AJ will be a really good shutdown corner for us - hopefully he will become a great one in time. But until we strengthen the other side of the field he really won’t need to be tested. 

People that think ints contitute a shut down corner are probably the same people who think a 40 yd dash time is one of the top criteria of a good QB.

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2 hours ago, youngbloodz said:

Where did you see me say anything about a “million ints” you’re exact quote was 

 

 

“Nope.  You’re not shutdown until you have the INTs or game changing plays to back it up.”

 

Those are your words and those are the words I responded to. I didn’t say anything about “a million ints” perhaps you quoted the wrong person. Jalen Ramsey made 1st team All Pro last year and if you look at his stats,in your own words, he wouldn’t be a shutdown corner. Now as far as AJ goes he kept Mike Evans and AB from having a single catch against him when they played in week 2. That’s pretty good to me. I didn’t claim he was elite. I need to see him do it for 2 years. But your notion of you need ints or game changing plays to be elite just isn’t true. Jalen Ramsey proves that. My only point I was trying to make. I don’t disagree with your point about AJ to an extent. But he definitely can be elite without having 5 or 6 ints or tons of PDs in a season. 

So it seems you missed everything else in that post, so I’ll say again that Ramsey has been making game changing plays AND shadows the opponents biggest threat at receiver.  I said Interceptions OR game changing plays.  That said, if Terrell isn’t making INTs then he should very well be making game changing plays when given the opportunity as opposed to committing penalties or dropping game clenching interceptions.  That to me is what would make him a shutdown corner.  He’s not there yet.

2 hours ago, primetime said:

Ok last try as we’re just going around in circles. Your talking shutdown corners and trying to put Diggs in that category - it’s just flat out wrong. He’s a play making cb (a better version of Alford) but he gets targeted because his coverage isn’t shutdown and opposing qbs see chances to exploit his coverage. That isn’t happening with AJ right now - partly because the other side of the field is so poor and partly because his coverage is tight. Ints and shutdown don’t go hand in hand. Great cbs don’t have to get ints to make a play - simple getting a PD (breakup) on 3rd down kills 80% of drives. If your tight coverage means safeties and linebackers can cheat to other areas then your helping the team immensely - it’s not just about ints. Conversely a DLineman doesn’t have to have a sack to be valuable - D pressures / hurries on 3rd down can also stall a drive. 

And as I’ve said before, a shutdown corner plays the game within the game.  Give the QB a reason to throw to your side so that you can make a play.  Diggs does this exact thing and is able to capitalize off of it.  Revis did this exact thing.  That is the mark of a shutdown corner.  You aren’t doing anything if QB can essentially move down the field by picking on other guys, especially when your other guys aren’t that good.  Playing corner is game of give and take.

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26 minutes ago, KRUNKuno said:

So it seems you missed everything else in that post, so I’ll say again that Ramsey has been making game changing plays AND shadows the opponents biggest threat at receiver.  I said Interceptions OR game changing plays.  That said, if Terrell isn’t making INTs then he should very well be making game changing plays when given the opportunity as opposed to committing penalties or dropping game clenching interceptions.  That to me is what would make him a shutdown corner.  He’s not there yet.

And as I’ve said before, a shutdown corner plays the game within the game.  Give the QB a reason to throw to your side so that you can make a play.  Diggs does this exact thing and is able to capitalize off of it.  Revis did this exact thing.  That is the mark of a shutdown corner.  You aren’t doing anything if QB can essentially move down the field by picking on other guys, especially when your other guys aren’t that good.  Playing corner is game of give and take.

Diggs isn’t a shutdown corner lol. It’s all about interceptions to you. And to compare him to Revis is crazy. Revis traveled with the best of the best and shut them down. What hall of Famer has Diggs shut down?

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3 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

Diggs isn’t a shutdown corner lol. It’s all about interceptions to you. And to compare him to Revis is crazy. Revis traveled with the best of the best and shut them down. What hall of Famer has Diggs shut down?

Don’t get me wrong I absolutely LOVE interceptions.  I think it’s the most demoralizing thing you can do to a QB.  Give me all the interceptions and then some more for dessert with a pick 6 for a late night snack.

That said, I really just want my corners (and all my players for that matter) to make plays.  I feel as if being a great corner is being savvy enough to know how to bait QBs so that you can make plays.  Doesn’t have to be an interception (just don’t drop an interception lol). 

Also please don’t think I’m comparing Diggs to Revis.  I was saying that Diggs is good at playing the game within the game.  He’s figured out how to manipulate QBs so that the ball comes his way, thus giving him a chance to make some kind of play.  In theory QBs should stop throwing his way since he has so many INTs, but instead he gives them a reason to throw his way.  

I never meant that Diggs is on the level of Revis.  That’s blasphemous.

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44 minutes ago, KRUNKuno said:

So it seems you missed everything else in that post, so I’ll say again that Ramsey has been making game changing plays AND shadows the opponents biggest threat at receiver.  I said Interceptions OR game changing plays.  That said, if Terrell isn’t making INTs then he should very well be making game changing plays when given the opportunity as opposed to committing penalties or dropping game clenching interceptions.  That to me is what would make him a shutdown corner.  He’s not there yet.

And as I’ve said before, a shutdown corner plays the game within the game.  Give the QB a reason to throw to your side so that you can make a play.  Diggs does this exact thing and is able to capitalize off of it.  Revis did this exact thing.  That is the mark of a shutdown corner.  You aren’t doing anything if QB can essentially move down the field by picking on other guys, especially when your other guys aren’t that good.  Playing corner is game of give and take.

Diggs plays in a cover 3 system. It’s CB friendly because it uses bail technique so he always keeps the wr in front of him. Similar to how Sherman did in Seattle. Like I said before Deion had to play burnt get a qb to throw his way cause he was a shutdown corner. The type of corner you’re talking about is a ball hawk simple and plain. You can be a ball hawking shut down corner. But getting picks isn’t what makes you a shut down corner. Locking your man down does. Darell Revis had a lot of picks early in his career cause he was young and qb’s tried him. His picks went down cause they stopped testing him cause his man was never open. So yea a shut down corner may have to play games to get action. But the entire point is int’s ISN’T what makes a shut down corner. That’s just a ball hawk. You can be a ball hawk and STILL not be a shut down corner. You may allow a ton of catches but eventually you’re gonna get a pick. 

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9 minutes ago, KRUNKuno said:

Don’t get me wrong I absolutely LOVE interceptions.  I think it’s the most demoralizing thing you can do to a QB.  Give me all the interceptions and then some more for dessert with a pick 6 for a late night snack.

That said, I really just want my corners (and all my players for that matter) to make plays.  I feel as if being a great corner is being savvy enough to know how to bait QBs so that you can make plays.  Doesn’t have to be an interception (just don’t drop an interception lol). 

Also please don’t think I’m comparing Diggs to Revis.  I was saying that Diggs is good at playing the game within the game.  He’s figured out how to manipulate QBs so that the ball comes his way, thus giving him a chance to make some kind of play.  In theory QBs should stop throwing his way since he has so many INTs, but instead he gives them a reason to throw his way.  

I never meant that Diggs is on the level of Revis.  That’s blasphemous.

Now this makes sense. We ALL want our players to make plays. But making plays isn’t exclusive to just int’s for a corner. Making a tackle on 3rd down that causes a punt is a play made. Picks also come in waves. Once AJ gets the first one he’ll probably get another one soon after. But to make plays you have to get the opportunity. AJ would rather lock his man down 1st. He’s limiting his guy to less catches. That’s taking somebody out of the game. Sometimes great play doesn’t show up in stats. But I agree we all like int’s and sacks etc…But 1st I want my corners to lock his man down. Don’t allow ANY catches. It’s a numbers game. The more you try a corner. The more likely you are to giving up a pick. 

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8 hours ago, KRUNKuno said:

The term is used too loosely.  True Shutdown corners make you feel their presence.  If you’re cutting off one side of the field then it’s about doing everything you can to bait the QB into testing you Deion, Green, Champ, Ramsey, Revis, Sherman all did more than simply patrol one side of the field.  They all played the game within the game.

And truth be told, Demond Trufant isn’t even better than his brother.  Are we saying that both of them are/were shutdown corners?  Where is the line drawn in using this term?

Exactly… “part of” is the key term here.

If Terrell was a shutdown corner then he makes the INT vs the chiefs last year.  If Terrell was a shutdown corner then he turns his head around and doesn’t panic in prime situations, which he’s done multiple times this year.  

 

Ramsey also shadows an opposing team’s best receiver.  You’re doing significantly more as corner by taking on that task.
 

Shutdown has nothing to do with making picks bro. Sheesh!!!  Deion didn’t make every pick opportunity. Also not every corner has Deion’s hands. AJ made a great pick against minny. That don’t count? And AJ was in a different system last year. COVER 3. ZONE!! And shadowing has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the corner. It’s about how the DC runs his system. Some dc’s shadow and some don’t. That’s on the DC. Quinn didn’t shadow. You stayed on your side and whoever you saw you saw. Sherman NEVER shadowed. He even took criticism because of that. And that wasn’t HIS fault. It’s the system. And topically zone systems don’t SHADOW. Man to man systems do. Lattimore shadows because NO primarily plays man to man. Cover 3 is zone. No shadowing. 

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30 minutes ago, KRUNKuno said:

Don’t get me wrong I absolutely LOVE interceptions.  I think it’s the most demoralizing thing you can do to a QB.  Give me all the interceptions and then some more for dessert with a pick 6 for a late night snack.

That said, I really just want my corners (and all my players for that matter) to make plays.  I feel as if being a great corner is being savvy enough to know how to bait QBs so that you can make plays.  Doesn’t have to be an interception (just don’t drop an interception lol). 

Also please don’t think I’m comparing Diggs to Revis.  I was saying that Diggs is good at playing the game within the game.  He’s figured out how to manipulate QBs so that the ball comes his way, thus giving him a chance to make some kind of play.  In theory QBs should stop throwing his way since he has so many INTs, but instead he gives them a reason to throw his way.  

I never meant that Diggs is on the level of Revis.  That’s blasphemous.

Ok i gotcha now. But yeah Revis was a different animal 

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On 10/14/2021 at 1:33 AM, Falconcheff said:

I don't think it was a brain fart on the Jets PI, it was a bad call. Terrell arrived at the same time as the ball and knocked it away. Flag happy refs and the NFL's bloodlust for the defense to allow the offense to score was the problem on that play...

Nah he was there a split second to soon. We probably don't get that call tho

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2 hours ago, KRUNKuno said:

Don’t get me wrong I absolutely LOVE interceptions.  I think it’s the most demoralizing thing you can do to a QB.  Give me all the interceptions and then some more for dessert with a pick 6 for a late night snack.

That said, I really just want my corners (and all my players for that matter) to make plays.  I feel as if being a great corner is being savvy enough to know how to bait QBs so that you can make plays.  Doesn’t have to be an interception (just don’t drop an interception lol). 

Also please don’t think I’m comparing Diggs to Revis.  I was saying that Diggs is good at playing the game within the game.  He’s figured out how to manipulate QBs so that the ball comes his way, thus giving him a chance to make some kind of play.  In theory QBs should stop throwing his way since he has so many INTs, but instead he gives them a reason to throw his way.  

I never meant that Diggs is on the level of Revis.  That’s blasphemous.

Honestly you are undervaluing what shutting down one side of the field can do for a decent team. You don’t need ints from the cb to make plays. With a true shutdown corners the linebackers and safeties can cheat to the other side and they can make the plays (ints, sacks, tackles for loss, etc). My last comment on this - not every shutdown corner has to have Deions hands. Those players rarely exist. 

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Diggs is gonna get all the love because of the INTs, but it doesn’t necessarily mean he is better. They are also why he will be top CB vote getter for Pro Bowl, and likely first team all pro (being a cowboy doesn’t hurt either)

That said, He also has given up a ton of yards. He reminds me of DeAngelo Hall, which isn’t a bad thing, but it’s a much better comparison than Revis IMO. People actually didn’t throw at ‘Revis island’ much, similar to when Nnamdi was in Oakland. He only had 5+ INTs 3 times in his looong career.

for comparison Terrell has ~150 coverage snaps this season and has given up 1 first down reception. 

they are both good players, despite being different players…heck I wish we could have drafted both!

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10 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

Diggs is gonna get all the love because of the INTs, but it doesn’t necessarily mean he is better. They are also why he will be too vote getter for Pro Bowl, and likely first team all pro (being a cowboy doesn’t hurt either)

That said, He also has given up a ton of yards. He reminds me of DeAngelo Hall, which isn’t a bad thing, but it’s a much better comparison than Revis IMO. People actually didn’t throw at ‘Revis island’ much, similar to when Nnamdi was in Oakland. He only had 5+ INTs 3 times in his looong career.

for comparison Terrell has ~150 coverage snaps this season and has given up 1 first down reception. 

they are both good players, despite being different players…heck I wish we could have drafted both!

Facts. Could've had him if we didn’t waste our 2nd rd pick last year. Would have cb set for almost the next decade. 
 

Didn’t like giving away the other 2nd. That could have been used on defense. Diggs with the first 2nd rd pick and a safety with the second 2nd rd pick. 

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Diggs plays in a cover 3. Great.

We ran that defense for years and didn't have a single CB put up those kinds of numbers. At some point you have to give the player credit. The system only theoretically puts you in the right place, but you still have to execute and make plays. 

Give him his credit for making plays. If it was so easy, more people would have done it.

This is the most QB friendly era in the history of the NFL. They have film. They know he is out there. He makes plays anyways.

Doesn't mean he is perfect or complete as a player. Terrell is just as good a CB without the plays on ball.

Diggs is doing something special though.

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7 hours ago, LightningDawg58 said:

Diggs plays in a cover 3. Great.

We ran that defense for years and didn't have a single CB put up those kinds of numbers. At some point you have to give the player credit. The system only theoretically puts you in the right place, but you still have to execute and make plays. 

Give him his credit for making plays. If it was so easy, more people would have done it.

This is the most QB friendly era in the history of the NFL. They have film. They know he is out there. He makes plays anyways.

Doesn't mean he is perfect or complete as a player. Terrell is just as good a CB without the plays on ball.

Diggs is doing something special though.

One huge difference is Diggs has a pass rush helping force QBs to throw the ball. We never had that in Atlanta; a decent pass rush in 2016 overall, but no Diggs on those no pass rush 2017-2020 teams wouldn’t have gotten as many opportunities on bad balls.

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On 10/14/2021 at 12:22 AM, TheFatboi said:

He has 14 PD’s because he’s getting targeted more. In other words teams are testing diggs more than they are AJ. 

Diggs has been baiting really well this year. A few times you see him give up inside positioning on trail technique and use make up speed once the QB winds up. Reminds me of Asante.

 

Dude is just a baller. AJ my favorite on defense so far this year though, he gets his nose on the ball, he’s played the soft squat zone beautifully, been a terror in his run fits and coming up against flats, and when he has to run with the horses, he’s been sticky. All he needs to do is start making plays. Don’t think he trusted his make up speed out of phase in trail against the Jets for the PI. Otherwise, he’s gotten his hands on some passes, just couldn’t pull them in

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On 10/15/2021 at 4:49 PM, KRUNKuno said:

So it seems you missed everything else in that post, so I’ll say again that Ramsey has been making game changing plays AND shadows the opponents biggest threat at receiver.  I said Interceptions OR game changing plays.  That said, if Terrell isn’t making INTs then he should very well be making game changing plays when given the opportunity as opposed to committing penalties or dropping game clenching interceptions.  That to me is what would make him a shutdown corner.  He’s not there yet.

And as I’ve said before, a shutdown corner plays the game within the game.  Give the QB a reason to throw to your side so that you can make a play.  Diggs does this exact thing and is able to capitalize off of it.  Revis did this exact thing.  That is the mark of a shutdown corner.  You aren’t doing anything if QB can essentially move down the field by picking on other guys, especially when your other guys aren’t that good.  Playing corner is game of give and take.

Ramsey hasn’t done much shadowing, he’s been in a sort of lurker role at nickel a lot. Think it’s called the joker position in Saban’s defense. It’s how we were using Oliver before he got hurt 

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9 minutes ago, caponine said:

Diggs is a beast , no one can take that from him. Top 5 corner from last year’s draft and this year 

No doubt hes good but that pick 6 today was simply an overthrow by Mac Jones. Diggs was beat on the play.

Then his aggressiveness costs them a TD on the very next play as he bites on the playfake. Fitting that Kazee’s sorry butt took a terrible angle on the same play.

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11 minutes ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

No doubt hes good but that pick 6 today was simply an overthrow by Mac Jones. Diggs was beat on the play.

Then his aggressiveness costs them a TD on the very next play as he bites on the playfake. Fitting that Kazee’s sorry butt took a terrible angle on the same play.

I actually think he was in good position on that pick tbh , over the top of the slant. Would have been a completion for a minimal gain 

and on that 2nd play , he did get beat but recovered pretty well. Kazee whiffed on that tackle. 

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On 10/15/2021 at 7:51 AM, Francis York Morgan said:

This is a pretty lazy comparison with the benefit of hindsight man. In 2015 and 2016, arguably until the torn pec (and possibly more importantly, getting paid), he was pretty much a shutdown guy. 2017 he was still solid but his aversion to tackling amplified and he seemed to get lazier with his technique, and 2018 he fell off completely. 

If Terrell's peak is 2015 Tru but bigger and lengthier while being a better and more willing tackler, he's going to be a top 5 CB in the NFL. I'm surprised how many fans forgot how good Tru was in his prime. Imagine how good he could've been with a good DL. I swear the DL and safeties have been a consistent problem with this defense for the last decade.

EDIT: and just to clarify, I'm saying that IF Terrell is as good as Trufant. As of now, I think of him in the same mold as Ridley - a great CB1B or elite CB2, but I'd like for him to have a running mate.

Tru's name was being mentioned as the best corner that year. He was playing out of this world. Not sure how people forget that.

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On 10/15/2021 at 2:58 AM, kiwifalcon said:

You watch everyone turn on AJT when they have to pay him.These stats being shown won’t matter.

Seriously TATF is like clockwork with this.$2 mentality when these guys earn that big pay day watch the tide turn.

People do that with corners though because they are ignorant. Many think if a corner gets beat on a comeback they were burnt. Its an overused word.

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5 hours ago, Wjcorner said:

Ramsey hasn’t done much shadowing, he’s been in a sort of lurker role at nickel a lot. Think it’s called the joker position in Saban’s defense. It’s how we were using Oliver before he got hurt 

Yeah he is in on plays more. Harder for teams to avoid him he is all over the field.

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2 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

He was beat by 3 steps. He didn’t recover

He was right there, he definitely got beat but he was able to make up. He just panicked and took a poor angle. For whatever reason he cut inside instead of staying outside , 

he goes inside for no reason. 

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