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Scott Bair examine national and local perceptions on Matt Ryan


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2 hours ago, Dr Long Shot said:

It was clearly good enough in 2016, basically a HC brain fart away from a championship there... and not sure how he was sorrounded by HoF talent that year. Outside of MAYBE Julio Jones (who if he doesn't pick it up in Tenessee might not even make it) who was a HoF player on that team on either side of the ball?? Gabriel? Hooper? Freeman? Coleman? Beasley?  All these guys have done squat, zero, zip, since moving to other teams post Matt Ryan. 

The notion Matt Ryan is a product of his weapons and not the other way around is laughable to me. The list of players and coaches with their career best seasons playing with Matt Ryan is pretty much absolute taking away only Gonzales who was playing in the twilight of his career with the Falcons (and yet had his 5th best season of his career at age36).

Shanny never in his life had an offense as good as the 2016 Falcons or even close to it. 

Tayler Gabriel out of the NFL a few years after 2016

Coleman and Freeman completely irrelevent

Hooper irrelevent in Cleveland

Douglas irrelevent post 

Jones so far completely irrelevent in Tenessee albeit in a very small sample size.

Everyone brings up 2012 as a season where Matt had amazing weapons, but just looking at the names is a little misleading, the only player along Matt that was playing at a peak level was Roddy White that season, Michael Turner had slowed down considerably and was pretty much a bum, Julio was just a sophomore, and Tony G was 36 and moved at a snail like pace out there on the field.  Of course Julio and Tony G still fantastic, but not playing at a HoF level just yet that year. And regardless Matt did what he had to do despite having no running game put up an MVPish season with Dirk Koetter as OC.

Morgan Freeman Applause GIF by The Academy Awards

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7 hours ago, Mid-Nite-Toker said:

That's why MR2 gets the grief he does. Only this year can you say the offense isn't in his favor. Without question he's been set up to succeed from a skill position perspective. If you can't have both then he deserves criticism, but he he's not terrible.

Offense lost 2016, I stand by that.

image.png.5a7a2d68a3d0c97e6cf8176316722e49.png

 

There were a lot of things that contributed to that lost, but I would put the most weight on coaching.  Had they done the math they could have kneel 2 more times and kick the FG right there and be up 11 pts with less than 3 min left unless NE takes some timeout.  The only way NE could have won after that would be to score a TD, 2 pts, recover onside kick, and kick FG/get TD.  The odd of that happens would have been 0.01%, but then again knowing the Falcons they probably still end up losing the game with that odd.

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21 hours ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Heres my argument against the “build around Matt Ryan” approach.

We’ve seen Matt Ryan at his absolute best. Surrounded by HOF talent… Having the best offense in franchise history and setting records.

And we’ve seen in two separate instances it wasn’t good enough. The team could not hold on to leads.

Im no not saying Ryan’s done or that he’s not going to be useful.

Im saying if this team cannot rush the passer then it will not matter. Instead of worrying about pass catchers the team should focus on pass rushers.

So we should get rid of Ryan and have perennial JAGs at QB? That will somehow win a SB? 

 

The gaps of logic here are big enough for a Mack truck to fall into. 

 

You said yourself - defense is what we lacked. Trent Dilfer won a SB. Matt Ryan isn't the issue and shouldn't even be brought up as part of the problem. 

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6 hours ago, Dr Long Shot said:

It was clearly good enough in 2016, basically a HC brain fart away from a championship there... and not sure how he was sorrounded by HoF talent that year. Outside of MAYBE Julio Jones (who if he doesn't pick it up in Tenessee might not even make it) who was a HoF player on that team on either side of the ball?? Gabriel? Hooper? Freeman? Coleman? Beasley?  All these guys have done squat, zero, zip, since moving to other teams post Matt Ryan. 

The notion Matt Ryan is a product of his weapons and not the other way around is laughable to me. The list of players and coaches with their career best seasons playing with Matt Ryan is pretty much absolute taking away only Gonzales who was playing in the twilight of his career with the Falcons (and yet had his 5th best season of his career at age36).

Shanny never in his life had an offense as good as the 2016 Falcons or even close to it. 

Tayler Gabriel out of the NFL a few years after 2016

Coleman and Freeman completely irrelevent

Hooper irrelevent in Cleveland

Douglas irrelevent post 

Jones so far completely irrelevent in Tenessee albeit in a very small sample size.

Everyone brings up 2012 as a season where Matt had amazing weapons, but just looking at the names is a little misleading, the only player along Matt that was playing at a peak level was Roddy White that season, Michael Turner had slowed down considerably and was pretty much a bum, Julio was just a sophomore, and Tony G was 36 and moved at a snail like pace out there on the field.  Of course Julio and Tony G still fantastic, but not playing at a HoF level just yet that year. And regardless Matt did what he had to do despite having no running game put up an MVPish season with Dirk Koetter as OC.

It's post like this that creates Ryan Haters.

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4 minutes ago, Faithful Falcon said:

It's post like this that creates Ryan Haters.

I think you’re going to need to elaborate on that.  There’s a lot of truth in what he said. But somehow, no matter how he explained MR’s incredible success & ability to make players around him better, this triggers you?  “creates Ryan haters” whoa! 😳

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54 minutes ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

I think you’re going to need to elaborate on that.  There’s a lot of truth in what he said. But somehow, no matter how he explained MR’s incredible success & ability to make players around him better, this triggers you?  “creates Ryan haters” whoa! 😳

Recievers/ TEs who have had career numbers with Ryan who played significant years in other teams: Cordorell Paterson, Harry Douglass, Taylor Gabriel, Mohamd Sanu, Austin Hooper, Jacob Tamme, Aldrick Robinson, Jacquizz Rodgers, Michael Jenkins.

Seasons with a top 5 rushing offense: 2

Seasons with a bottom 5 rushing offense: 6

Seasons with a top 10 defense (ppg given up per drive):  2

Seasons with a bottom 10 defense: 7

At no point in his career has he played on a team with a top 10 rushing attack and a top 10 defense in the same season.

 

For reference: Brady has played on 14 teams with a top 10 defense, and only in two bottom 10 defenses (worst defense he ever played in was 9th worst), and he has played on a whopping 9 teams with a top 10 rushing offense and top 10 defense, including several teams with a top 5 rushing and defense (including the 2016 SB team). But somehow it's Ryan, who always manages to get career seasons from all of his recievers and no support on the ground or on defense that is the one that is carried by his teams. Ok. 

And P.S. this is in no way disparraging of Brady who is the GOAT, just adding that for context when people say Ryan has been sorrounded by Hall of Famers, when really the only HoF he has played for in his entire careers are a 35 year old Tony G and Julio Jones. 

Edited by Dr Long Shot
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5 minutes ago, Dr Long Shot said:

Recievers/ TEs who have had career numbers with Ryan who played significant years in other teams: Cordorell Paterson, Harry Douglass, Taylor Gabriel, Mohamd Sanu, Austin Hooper, Jacob Tamme, Aldrick Robinson, Jacquizz Rodgers, Michael Jenkins.

Seasons with a top 5 rushing offense: 2

Seasons with a bottom 5 rushing offense: 6

Seasons with a top 10 defense (ppg given up per drive):  2

Seasons with a bottom 10 defense: 7

At no point in his career has he played on a team with a top 10 rushing attack and a top 10 defense in the same season.

 

For reference: Brady has played on 14 teams with a top 10 defense, and only in two bottom 10 defenses (worst defense he ever played in was 9th worst), and he has played on a whopping 9 teams with a top 10 rushing offense and top 10 defense, including several teams with a top 5 rushing and defense (including the 2016 SB team). But somehow it's Ryan, who always manages to get career seasons from all of his recievers and no support on the ground or on defense that is the one that is carried by his teams. Ok. 

And P.S. this is in no way disparraging of Brady who is the GOAT, just adding that for context when people say Ryan has been sorrounded by Hall of Famers, when really the only HoF he has played for in his entire careers are a 35 year old Tony G and Julio Jones. 

They’ll lie about their own mothers I think. 😆

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6 hours ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

I think you’re going to need to elaborate on that.  There’s a lot of truth in what he said. But somehow, no matter how he explained MR’s incredible success & ability to make players around him better, this triggers you?  “creates Ryan haters” whoa! 😳

All of this about these players being irrelevant. I for one, am not a Ryan Hater. I can see where people are tired of seeing that this lack of success is always someone else's fault.

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9 hours ago, Faithful Falcon said:

All of this about these players being irrelevant. I for one, am not a Ryan Hater. I can see where people are tired of seeing that this lack of success is always someone else's fault.

He’s been remarkably successful considering the team’s difficulties putting defenses & Olines in place among other things.  He’s not been the problem.  The opposite is true.  Those are facts.  It doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree.  

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18 hours ago, Dr Long Shot said:

Recievers/ TEs who have had career numbers with Ryan who played significant years in other teams: Cordorell Paterson, Harry Douglass, Taylor Gabriel, Mohamd Sanu, Austin Hooper, Jacob Tamme, Aldrick Robinson, Jacquizz Rodgers, Michael Jenkins.

Seasons with a top 5 rushing offense: 2

Seasons with a bottom 5 rushing offense: 6

Seasons with a top 10 defense (ppg given up per drive):  2

Seasons with a bottom 10 defense: 7

At no point in his career has he played on a team with a top 10 rushing attack and a top 10 defense in the same season.

 

For reference: Brady has played on 14 teams with a top 10 defense, and only in two bottom 10 defenses (worst defense he ever played in was 9th worst), and he has played on a whopping 9 teams with a top 10 rushing offense and top 10 defense, including several teams with a top 5 rushing and defense (including the 2016 SB team). But somehow it's Ryan, who always manages to get career seasons from all of his recievers and no support on the ground or on defense that is the one that is carried by his teams. Ok. 

And P.S. this is in no way disparraging of Brady who is the GOAT, just adding that for context when people say Ryan has been sorrounded by Hall of Famers, when really the only HoF he has played for in his entire careers are a 35 year old Tony G and Julio Jones. 

 

18 hours ago, Dr Long Shot said:

Oh and what has Matt Ryan's average record been the meager 4 seasons he has had EITHER a top 10 rushing attack OR Defense? 12-4. 

 

18 hours ago, Dr Long Shot said:

And how many times have the Falcons finished top 10 in passing with Matt Ryan? 10 (current streak from 2011-2020) And out of those 10, 7 of those seaoson Falcs have finished top 6 or better. 

Excellent breakdown. I like how you referenced points per Drive, too.

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37 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

 

 

Excellent breakdown. I like how you referenced points per Drive, too.

For offensive points per drive Matt Ryan has led a team to a top 10 finish 10 times, top 5 3 times, and never finished lower than 18th... for reference the defense has finished 18th or lower 10 of the 13 seasons, NEVER finished top 5. 

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I have a feeling if TF had been super bullish on any of the QBs left at 4 (or at 3) that would have been the pick, but I felt pretty confident that if we went a different direction it's because the QBs there all really failed to impress in our eyes. I think the reason we went Pitts instead of Chase was because the FO at the time felt they could mend things with Julio.

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3 hours ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

He’s been remarkably successful considering the team’s difficulties putting defenses & Olines in place among other things.  He’s not been the problem.  The opposite is true.  Those are facts.  It doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree.  

Nobody doubts he success. Just don't go to saying things like Tony Gonzalez was too old, Julio was too young, Turner's wheels had fallen off. All of those guys contributed. I'd take 2012 and 2013 Tony Gonzalez over any TE we've had. That was Matt's go to guy. He did it all, even past his prime. Turner's production declined, but so did his carries.

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On 10/13/2021 at 10:12 AM, kenn.junior said:

how did the offense lose 2016 when the defense allowed 25 pts in 1 qtr and also couldnt get a stop in OT? 🤔

Why didn't the offense just run the ball and eat clock? Why did Jake Matthews commit a holding penalty allowing us to be put out of Field Goal range. Why did Devontae Freeman miss his blocking assignment? Those are all offensive players. That Superbowl was lost on both sides of the ball.

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6 minutes ago, FalconsFan36 said:

Why didn't the offense just run the ball and eat clock? Why did Jake Matthews commit a holding penalty allowing us to be put out of Field Goal range. Why did Devontae Freeman miss his blocking assignment? Those are all offensive players. That Superbowl was lost on both sides of the ball.

thats why i blamed shanahan he should of ran 3 straight times if he did we probably win but he didnt. he made them pass it which put us in a horrible spot. he is first to blame on offense its his job to call smart plays

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4 minutes ago, kenn.junior said:

thats why i blamed shanahan he should of ran 3 straight times if he did we probably win but he didnt. he made them pass it which put us in a horrible spot. he is first to blame on offense its his job to call smart plays

Gotcha. But I also heard somewhere on here that Matt Ryan was yelling on the sidelines to run the ball. Imo as a 9 year vet at that point he should have just called what he felt comfortable calling. At the end of the day Shanahan isn't on the field.

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4 minutes ago, FalconsFan36 said:

Gotcha. But I also heard somewhere on here that Matt Ryan was yelling on the sidelines to run the ball. Imo as a 9 year vet at that point he should have just called what he felt comfortable calling. At the end of the day Shanahan isn't on the field.

QB's don't call plays or disobey the OC who made them an MVP.

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10 minutes ago, FalconsFan36 said:

Gotcha. But I also heard somewhere on here that Matt Ryan was yelling on the sidelines to run the ball. Imo as a 9 year vet at that point he should have just called what he felt comfortable calling. At the end of the day Shanahan isn't on the field.

i know thats what frustrates me even more but i also heard the play didnt have a run play as the secondary play then mack with 1 leg got matt blowed up then the rest is history 

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3 minutes ago, FalconsFan36 said:

 Im not saying you have to disobey the OCs but at that point in the game as a proven veteran you do what you have to do to win the game.

That's not something you do in any circumstance as a QB. If that was something our players did we wouldn't have even gotten to the SB.

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2 minutes ago, Lornoth said:

That's not something you do in any circumstance as a QB. If that was something our players did we wouldn't have even gotten to the SB.

Im not taking about during the season our whatever took place beforehand. I'm talking about the last 3 minutes pf the most crucial game of your career. There was no need to pass at that point. Running the ball would have been more effective.

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