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Is there really a lack of talent on the Falcons defense?


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On 7/16/2021 at 10:53 PM, takeitdown said:

I just think we need another corner a) in case Moreau isn't what we hope and B-in case of injury etc.

Moreau gets knicked up a lot, if he goes down a few games here and there, or, if AJ goes down any significant amount of time, we are in trouble. I’ve been saying it since draft, we are fine at safety, we need another a starting caliber CB.

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54 minutes ago, gazoo said:

Moreau gets knicked up a lot, if he goes down a few games here and there, or, if AJ goes down any significant amount of time, we are in trouble. I’ve been saying it since draft, we are fine at safety, we need another a starting caliber CB.

Maybe the Falcons should sign a veteran corner instead of the edge rusher a lot of people want.

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1 hour ago, insight said:

Of  course the defense lacks talent.  Not physical enough to stop the run, and can't consistently get to the quarter back. Who is the free saftely?  who is the strong safety? Hopefully the defense will improve under an new regime but more studs are needed to compete with the top teams. 

The Falcons defense actually did well against the run.

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On 7/16/2021 at 7:55 PM, FalconBlood said:

DE Jarrett (Elite)

DT Davison (Solid vet)

DE Davidson (Nice Upside)

OLB Fowler (can play solid)

ILB Jones (elite tools)

ILB Oluokun (NearProbowler last year)

OLB Tuioti-Mariner (Big Question) *FA maybe

CB Terrell (Huge Potential)

CB Moreau (Could surprise)

NB Oliver (Has to take step)

FS Harmon (Solid vet)

SS Grant (Nice Upside)

Our coaches have to do a huge job, maybe get a FA edge, but this group could possibly finish as top 15 D if Pees scheme is realized and their talent maintains or comes along well.

 

I’m sure it will be Harris Harmon to start out at safety 

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On 7/16/2021 at 3:46 PM, Falcons Fan MVP said:

The Falcons do play a lot of mediocre offenses this year it appears, so the defense could do well on that fact alone. The Bills and Bucs are really the only explosive offenses on the schedule. The Falcons D usually does okay against the Saints offense.

Agree. The D isn't going to have to go up against dominant offenses every week. Just playing sound football will keep us in most all these games defensively. And if Pees can come up with a few surprises in big moments, our offense will be able to out-score most of these teams. We have plenty enough talent on D to get the job done.

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3 hours ago, GrimeyKidd said:

I’m sure it will be Harris Harmon to start out at safety 

I’m not. Lol.

Injuries, Training Camp competition, Lots of recent Early Round Rookie Safety success, Harris or maybe even Harmon Declining, Harris or Harmon could die, A non Harris/Harmon/Grant starter could emerge like Ricardo Allen did.... 🤷‍♂️

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8 hours ago, Falcons Fan MVP said:

The Falcons defense actually did well against the run.

Thank you. Against the run we were top ten. Most sites rank us 6-8 vs the run in 2020. And most of the guy's strengths we brought in are slanted to run stopping. I think we'll be fine again against the run.

Where we bleed deep is against the pass. We need at least one guy besides Grady to outperform this year, and step up on his pass rush game. Davison and Davidson would be spectacular if they can play well enough to keep double teams off Grady.

I think we will fall back closer to 10-12 vs the run this year, but improve into the high or mid teens vs the pass. 

I believe Moreau will be fine as a #2 but any depth at the CB position is non-existent. If someone goes down, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of our safeties become a CB. I believe one or two of them were said to have CB coverage abilities.

I am hoping we can be opportunistic with our defense and get MR and company more opportunities on the field. No giving up 3rd and 15+ like last year at critical points of the game.

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10 hours ago, Falcons Fan MVP said:

The Falcons defense actually did well against the run.

Perfect example of when the numbers don't tell the complete story.  The defense, especially  2nd half struggled to stop teams rushing attack and  passing attack.  2020 was similar to 2017 where the rush numbers improved but the defensive line was not winning the line of scrimmage and 2017 was a more talented group of players. 

The Falcons made Mike Davis look like a super star, notice how overpowered the defensive line was. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZPs4XFUG88

Edited by insight
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27 minutes ago, insight said:
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<iframe width="420" height="345" src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZPs4XFUG88">
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Perfect example of when the numbers don't tell the complete story.  The defense, especially  2nd half struggled to stop teams rushing attack and  passing attack.  2020 was similar to 2017 where the rush numbers improved but the defensive line was not winning the line of scrimmage and 2017 was a more talented group of players. 

The Falcons made Mike Davis look like a super star, notice how overpowered the defensive line was. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZPs4XFUG88

Okay. I stopped watching this video after a couple and a half minutes. What I did see was a lot of passes to Davis (again, pass defense), and a lot of 3-6 yard gains, many of which were on 3rd and short. Davis is a good yards after contact guy. We already knew this, but the numbers do tell the story over a 16 game span. Also in this game, Davis had 89 yards rushing, tied for the most yards rushing against us all year with I believe Elliott. 

So taking the game with the highest rushing yards against us is more of an anomaly than the norm. It further illustrates we had a good run defense.

 

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Personally I’m more worried about our NT position than any other position out there. We get a legit NT and literally EVERY position gets set up to succeed with the current speed we have across the board. But for Pees system to shine, that NT must be a dog. I’m not sure we have that as of yet. 

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On 7/16/2021 at 2:26 PM, Falcons Fan MVP said:

The Falcons defense has a lot of solid pieces on it. Grady Jarrett, the line backers are great with Deion and Foye. AJ Terrell is good. Dante Fowler had 11 sacks in LA so we know he has potential. Marlon Davidson has a lot of potential. If the Falcons can sign an edge rusher like Justin Houston is our defense really that bad on paper? I know we got to hope the safeties and corners we brought in are at least decent. The guy we drafted in round 2 Richie Grant I think is his name should be real good. Oliver should be a better fit at safety.  

Is our defense really lacking talent other than very suspect at cornerback? 

 

nah people are just looking at it from a view of we dont have pro bowlers at every position..like if we had the line solid to good that helps fix alot of the back end problems outside of whoever is back there playing poorly 

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22 hours ago, gazoo said:

Moreau gets knicked up a lot, if he goes down a few games here and there, or, if AJ goes down any significant amount of time, we are in trouble. I’ve been saying it since draft, we are fine at safety, we need another a starting caliber CB.

I believe TF will sign a vet like Nelson or Poole

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On 7/17/2021 at 11:56 PM, insight said:

Of  course the defense lacks talent.  Not physical enough to stop the run, and can't consistently get to the quarter back. Who is the free saftely?  who is the strong safety? Hopefully the defense will improve under an new regime but more studs are needed to compete with the top teams. 

Finished ranked #7 in rushing yards per game last season. I think that's pretty good. 

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I know everyone is down and gloomy based on previous years results. One thing to keep in mind. The most recent SB winning teams are usually great in one area defensively and lack in the other. They just turn it up when the playoffs come around. New England may be the most recent to rank top 10 in both pass and rush defense. 

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As bill bellichik said, “good players can’t overcome bad coaching”. Y’all know I’ve been a sounding board for the good players we have and I stand on it. It’s never been a lack of talent but a lack of good coaching. The coaching started getting bad after Cox was let go and worse after Manuel was let go on the defensive side of the ball. Coaching got bad after Kyle left and worse after sark on offense. And Quinn made these decisions. Good players can’t overcome bad coaching. 

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On 7/18/2021 at 12:06 PM, insight said:

 

Perfect example of when the numbers don't tell the complete story.  The defense, especially  2nd half struggled to stop teams rushing attack and  passing attack.  2020 was similar to 2017 where the rush numbers improved but the defensive line was not winning the line of scrimmage and 2017 was a more talented group of players. 

The Falcons made Mike Davis look like a super star, notice how overpowered the defensive line was. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZPs4XFUG88

That’s not always talent. That’s lack of preparation and poor game planning and straight up bad coaching. It’s not the talent in most cases. Hence why a defense can go from worst to 1st in one season with the same players but a new DC. Also an example of how you can have the most talented players yet suck like the redskins when spurrier was the HC. Deion, champ etc…They were  loaded with obvious top tier talent. 

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Talent is there, its what you do with them.  JTM had his career game vs the Raiders, after that game, never seen from again or he was mainly special teams. I would see Cominsky making plays at the DT spot in the Cowboys game, after that game, never seen from again.  

I think we signed two big NT's to handle the load in the middle to let Grady and everyone else rush the passer. 

Overall, I think the defense will shock people rather than being a weak link like it has been for the past 30 years

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It depends on what you mean. If you mean can we line up 11 v 11 and each man win his personal matchup and complete his assigned duty in generic "book" schemes, then we have a talent deficit to many teams. For example, we don't have anyone who will consistently win off the edge 1v1. We lack sufficient depth at corner for all three guys (assuming Nickle) to "win" in either zone or man vs. WR1-WR3 on most NFL teams. 

That said, as mentioned in various ways throughout this post, coaching and scheme matters. Solid game plans for your specific opponent each week can exploit the positions you do have talent at (DT, LB) and generate "above talent" results at the weak spots. 

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3 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

That’s not always talent. That’s lack of preparation and poor game planning and straight up bad coaching. It’s not the talent in most cases. Hence why a defense can go from worst to 1st in one season with the same players but a new DC. Also an example of how you can have the most talented players yet suck like the redskins when spurrier was the HC. Deion, champ etc…They were  loaded with obvious top tier talent. 

You know what is so funny about Steve Spurrier's 2 years in Washington? His most impressive win was against the Patriots in 2003 and the Patriots immediately responded by winning 21 straight games. That's the longest winning streak in NFL history.

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