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31 minutes ago, Atlantafan21 said:

In every series, Holiday has shot like a bum but against us he looked like a superstar smh. Can’t believe we let him cook us outside of one game. 

 

3 minutes ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

Rooting for the Suns only so people can shut up about how superior the Bucks are. 

 

 

The Bucks are too inconsistent to compete with the Suns. Holiday and Middleton seem to play worse whenever Giannis puts up great numbers.

 

Bucks have to be firing on all cylinders just to even keep up with the Suns.

 

Would not be surprised if this thing is a sweep because it doesn't look good at all for the Bucks.

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6 minutes ago, DonOfThemBirds said:

 

 

 

The Bucks are too inconsistent to compete with the Suns. Holiday and Middleton seem to play worse whenever Giannis puts up great numbers.

 

Bucks have to be firing on all cylinders just to even keep up with the Suns.

 

Would not be surprised if this thing is a sweep because it doesn't look good at all for the Bucks.

I think the Bucks at least split in Milwaukee but I don’t see them winning four out of five of the next games at all.

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7 minutes ago, DonOfThemBirds said:

 

 

 

The Bucks are too inconsistent to compete with the Suns. Holiday and Middleton seem to play worse whenever Giannis puts up great numbers.

 

Bucks have to be firing on all cylinders just to even keep up with the Suns.

 

Would not be surprised if this thing is a sweep because it doesn't look good at all for the Bucks.

Bucks won’t get swept. Middleton will have a game where he’s unstoppable. The issue is that the next game he’ll be a bum. 

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Just now, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

I think they WILL have that Middleton plus Holiday hot game back home at least once.

Idk about Holiday tbh. Outside of the Hawks series he’s been awful. The series against Atlanta seems like a total outlier right now. Middleton though will definitely have a hot game at some point. 

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9 minutes ago, Atlantafan21 said:

Idk about Holiday tbh. Outside of the Hawks series he’s been awful. The series against Atlanta seems like a total outlier right now. Middleton though will definitely have a hot game at some point. 

If it’s just Middleton, they just very well might get swept. I don’t know if Giannis is having another forty point night on that knee(I think he may have did some damage to it a little tonight).

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18 minutes ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

I meant in general, not to the Suns, which are beatable as well to me.

 

19 minutes ago, Atlantafan21 said:

Bucks won’t get swept. Middleton will have a game where he’s unstoppable. The issue is that the next game he’ll be a bum. 

 

I can see the Bucks winning game 3 because it will be the ultimate desperation game. Giannis has been the only consistent player for the Bucks these last 2 games.

 

If Bucks lose game 3, then I think they'll be too depleted mentally and emotionally for game 4.

 

I honestly think Suns got this regardless because the Bucks are already in too big of a hole against a noticeably superior team. 

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30 minutes ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

I meant in general, not to the Suns, which are beatable as well to me.

 

Bucks don't match up well against Suns.

 

They have no answers for Suns offense and can't keep up with them for any noticable stretch of time before falling behind in scoring and momentum.

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7 hours ago, DonOfThemBirds said:

 

Bucks don't match up well against Suns.

 

They have no answers for Suns offense and can't keep up with them for any noticable stretch of time before falling behind in scoring and momentum.

Exactly. And if we were as healthy as the Suns, it would have been the same with us versus Milwaukee. 

The Bucks do however have a big advantage on the board V us. Phoenix is slightly better than us Rebounding and that sealed the deal last night with getting those crucial rebounds down the stretch. 

Didn’t really notice a backup PG making that big of a difference then. 😏

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21 minutes ago, BamaBirdLady said:

I hope the Suns win! I am really pulling them after I read a comment by Bucks fans saying, "This won't be like playing Hawks, we are going to have play our best"

I'm like, seriously, that series was a walk in the park for you guys??🤬

They think it was. 

But playing down three of your five starters does make it easier. So maybe that is what they meant.


 

 

 

 

No, probably not. :lol:

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28 minutes ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

They think it was. 

But playing down three of your five starters does make it easier. So maybe that is what they meant.


 

 

 

 

No, probably not. :lol:

Yea, no, agree. As stated, they got to play teams with numerous injuries in every series. We beat them with their star playing and lost to them without our star and their star playing.

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13 minutes ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

Exactly. And if we were as healthy as the Suns, it would have been the same with us versus Milwaukee. 

The Bucks do however have a big advantage on the board V us. Phoenix is slightly better than us Rebounding and that sealed the deal last night with getting those crucial rebounds down the stretch. 

Didn’t really notice a backup PG making that big of a difference then. 😏

C’mon.  Don’t do that.

We’re built different and have a different style of play.

We don’t have a Devin Booker. The Suns offense doesn’t take a nosedive when Chris Paul isn’t on the floor. The Suns front 5 consistently scores and never all go cold at same time. And they don’t look for their bench to score 30+ every night like we do.

Paul regularly (at least in these playoffs) goes 20-30+ points, Booker 25-35+, Bridges 15-20+, Crowder 8-12, Ayton 10-15, and their bench goes for around 15-20 and that’s all is needed.

For us, it’s Trae 20-35+, Bogi 5-15, Hunter 10-15, JC 10-20, Cap 5-12, then off the bench we NEED Lou 8-12, Huerter 8-12, Reddish 8-12, Gallo 8-12, OO 5-8.

And the problem is sometimes Trae puts up 20 and Lou puts up 2, and everyone else shoots 35% and misses their average.

If we can get Reddish healthy at the 2 and Hunter healthy at the 3, and those guys combined can begin averaging 40-50 between them every night (which is the expectation), then I agree it won’t matter who our backup PG is. Until then, however, we need 30+ off our bench at a bare minimum every night. And we need a secondary field general who can consistently get that out of Bogi, Huerter, Gallo, and OO until our starter’s scoring gets more consistent.

If our scoring just gets more consistent all around, then everything else becomes easier and more efficient.  Especially defense. If we’re not pressing for points, it’s easier to slow the pace and stick around for 2nd chance opportunities and then get on defense during the in-bound rather than constantly doing the chuck it and sprint the floor crap we get into way too much.

We have rebounders. We have Bigs who can hold down the paint and rim when needed, even against the Joel Embiid’s of the league (we proved that). The problem is we stop playing for 2nd chance opportunities and urgently going for rebounds when our focus turns to sprinter’s pace volume shooting to try and keep up/catch up on scoring.

The Suns don’t have that problem. They get consistent scoring from their starting 5 every single night, and their bench isn’t a scoring necessity.

Our scoring consistency will improve, though.  He!!, I still contend if we had been fully healthy (Hunter and Reddish for entire playoffs, and Trae missing no games), we’d be playing for the chip and quite possibly winning it.

We bring this group all back and stay relative healthy and we have a great chance in 2022.

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35 minutes ago, Beef said:

C’mon.  Don’t do that.

We’re built different and have a different style of play.

We don’t have a Devin Booker. The Suns offense doesn’t take a nosedive when Chris Paul isn’t on the floor. The Suns front 5 consistently scores and never all go cold at same time. And they don’t look for their bench to score 30+ every night like we do.

Paul regularly (at least in these playoffs) goes 20-30+ points, Booker 25-35+, Bridges 15-20+, Crowder 8-12, Ayton 10-15, and their bench goes for around 15-20 and that’s all is needed.

For us, it’s Trae 20-35+, Bogi 5-15, Hunter 10-15, JC 10-20, Cap 5-12, then off the bench we NEED Lou 8-12, Huerter 8-12, Reddish 8-12, Gallo 8-12, OO 5-8.

And the problem is sometimes Trae puts up 20 and Lou puts up 2, and everyone else shoots 35% and misses their average.

If we can get Reddish healthy at the 2 and Hunter healthy at the 3, and those guys combined can begin averaging 40-50 between them every night (which is the expectation), then I agree it won’t matter who our backup PG is. Until then, however, we need 30+ off our bench at a bare minimum every night. And we need a secondary field general who can consistently get that out of Bogi, Huerter, Gallo, and OO until our starter’s scoring gets more consistent.

If our scoring just gets more consistent all around, then everything else becomes easier and more efficient.  Especially defense. If we’re not pressing for points, it’s easier to slow the pace and stick around for 2nd chance opportunities and then get on defense during the in-bound rather than constantly doing the chuck it and sprint the floor crap we get into way too much.

We have rebounders. We have Bigs who can hold down the paint and rim when needed, even against the Joel Embiid’s of the league (we proved that). The problem is we stop playing for 2nd chance opportunities and urgently going for rebounds when our focus turns to sprinter’s pace volume shooting to try and keep up/catch up on scoring.

The Suns don’t have that problem. They get consistent scoring from their starting 5 every single night, and their bench isn’t a scoring necessity.

Our scoring consistency will improve, though.  He!!, I still contend if we had been fully healthy (Hunter and Reddish for entire playoffs, and Trae missing no games), we’d be playing for the chip and quite possibly winning it.

We bring this group all back and stay relative healthy and we have a great chance in 2022.

That was a comical shot, I will claim that. but seriously. 

The difference last night and part of the game before was the ability to kill the Bucks momentum and that came down to what I have been saying. 

It Milwaukee was able to continue their board dominance they would have won last night and as you saw, that is how they stayed in the game to begin with as Phoenix is only marginally better at rebounding than we are. 

And I don’t know about this Hang up On bigs, what I am taking about are guys that eat drink and sleep rebounding.

Be it 6’5 or 7’5, I just want guys that can get the hustle rebounds and end chances and occasionally get us extra shots. Maybe that can improve with the combo of Collins, Hunter(who already is solid) and Reddish but it MUST improve.

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41 minutes ago, Beef said:

C’mon.  Don’t do that.

We’re built different and have a different style of play.

We don’t have a Devin Booker. The Suns offense doesn’t take a nosedive when Chris Paul isn’t on the floor. The Suns front 5 consistently scores and never all go cold at same time. And they don’t look for their bench to score 30+ every night like we do.

Paul regularly (at least in these playoffs) goes 20-30+ points, Booker 25-35+, Bridges 15-20+, Crowder 8-12, Ayton 10-15, and their bench goes for around 15-20 and that’s all is needed.

For us, it’s Trae 20-35+, Bogi 5-15, Hunter 10-15, JC 10-20, Cap 5-12, then off the bench we NEED Lou 8-12, Huerter 8-12, Reddish 8-12, Gallo 8-12, OO 5-8.

And the problem is sometimes Trae puts up 20 and Lou puts up 2, and everyone else shoots 35% and misses their average.

If we can get Reddish healthy at the 2 and Hunter healthy at the 3, and those guys combined can begin averaging 40-50 between them every night (which is the expectation), then I agree it won’t matter who our backup PG is. Until then, however, we need 30+ off our bench at a bare minimum every night. And we need a secondary field general who can consistently get that out of Bogi, Huerter, Gallo, and OO until our starter’s scoring gets more consistent.

If our scoring just gets more consistent all around, then everything else becomes easier and more efficient.  Especially defense. If we’re not pressing for points, it’s easier to slow the pace and stick around for 2nd chance opportunities and then get on defense during the in-bound rather than constantly doing the chuck it and sprint the floor crap we get into way too much.

We have rebounders. We have Bigs who can hold down the paint and rim when needed, even against the Joel Embiid’s of the league (we proved that). The problem is we stop playing for 2nd chance opportunities and urgently going for rebounds when our focus turns to sprinter’s pace volume shooting to try and keep up/catch up on scoring.

The Suns don’t have that problem. They get consistent scoring from their starting 5 every single night, and their bench isn’t a scoring necessity.

Our scoring consistency will improve, though.  He!!, I still contend if we had been fully healthy (Hunter and Reddish for entire playoffs, and Trae missing no games), we’d be playing for the chip and quite possibly winning it.

We bring this group all back and stay relative healthy and we have a great chance in 2022.

Also, let’s end this backup PG, who will only play 15 max minutes argument. 

Unless you are bringing in Derrick Rose(which I would absolutely LOVE to bring in) you really aren’t going to have a guy that isn’t a significant fall off from Trae. 

Next you really don’t know what you currently have outside of Lou as the other three guys didn’t play due to either injury or Youth in running the offense. 

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1 hour ago, Beef said:

C’mon.  Don’t do that.

We’re built different and have a different style of play.

We don’t have a Devin Booker. The Suns offense doesn’t take a nosedive when Chris Paul isn’t on the floor. The Suns front 5 consistently scores and never all go cold at same time. And they don’t look for their bench to score 30+ every night like we do.

Paul regularly (at least in these playoffs) goes 20-30+ points, Booker 25-35+, Bridges 15-20+, Crowder 8-12, Ayton 10-15, and their bench goes for around 15-20 and that’s all is needed.

For us, it’s Trae 20-35+, Bogi 5-15, Hunter 10-15, JC 10-20, Cap 5-12, then off the bench we NEED Lou 8-12, Huerter 8-12, Reddish 8-12, Gallo 8-12, OO 5-8.

And the problem is sometimes Trae puts up 20 and Lou puts up 2, and everyone else shoots 35% and misses their average.

If we can get Reddish healthy at the 2 and Hunter healthy at the 3, and those guys combined can begin averaging 40-50 between them every night (which is the expectation), then I agree it won’t matter who our backup PG is. Until then, however, we need 30+ off our bench at a bare minimum every night. And we need a secondary field general who can consistently get that out of Bogi, Huerter, Gallo, and OO until our starter’s scoring gets more consistent.

If our scoring just gets more consistent all around, then everything else becomes easier and more efficient.  Especially defense. If we’re not pressing for points, it’s easier to slow the pace and stick around for 2nd chance opportunities and then get on defense during the in-bound rather than constantly doing the chuck it and sprint the floor crap we get into way too much.

We have rebounders. We have Bigs who can hold down the paint and rim when needed, even against the Joel Embiid’s of the league (we proved that). The problem is we stop playing for 2nd chance opportunities and urgently going for rebounds when our focus turns to sprinter’s pace volume shooting to try and keep up/catch up on scoring.

The Suns don’t have that problem. They get consistent scoring from their starting 5 every single night, and their bench isn’t a scoring necessity.

Our scoring consistency will improve, though.  He!!, I still contend if we had been fully healthy (Hunter and Reddish for entire playoffs, and Trae missing no games), we’d be playing for the chip and quite possibly winning it.

We bring this group all back and stay relative healthy and we have a great chance in 2022.

One thing the Sun's are really good at is sharing the ball.

Check out this play:

This is basketball at its best. Everyone was moving, touching the ball, looking to turn a good shot into a great one and it finally ended with Ayton getting a free run at the basket plus an and 1.

The only time the Hawks really played like this is when Trae Young was out in Game 4. Nothing against Trae Young, but offense gets easier when everyone is touching the ball, cutting, slashing (not just hanging out at the three point line) and we're not relying on Trae, Gallo, Lou, or whoever, to make plays in isolation, and that happened far too often. It's not sustainable.

The Sun's finished with 26 assists in Game 2. That should be the standard in Atlanta. Hopefully with a full off-season, Nate can truly bring out that kind of play. He's already instilled the culture. But it hasn't quite always showed up in practice and that's why the offense tended to stall when Trae was off the floor.

The ball moves faster than the man. This needs to be a point of emphasis. A team with this many good shooters should be averaging 26+ assists per game.

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15 minutes ago, Mr.11 said:

One thing the Sun's are really good at is sharing the ball.

Check out this play:

The only time the Hawks really played like this is when Trae Young was out in Game 4. Nothing against Trae Young, but offense gets easier when everyone is touching the ball, cutting, slashing (not just hanging out at the three point line) and we're not relying on Trae, Gallo, Lou, or whoever, to make plays in isolation, and that happened far too often. It's not sustainable.

The Sun's finished with 26 assists in Game 2. That should be the standard in Atlanta. Hopefully with a full off-season, Nate can truly bring out that kind of play. He's already instilled the culture. But it hasn't quite always showed up in practice and that's why the offense tended to stall when Trae was off the floor.

The ball moves faster than the man. This needs to be a point of emphasis. A team with this many good shooters should be averaging 26+ assists per game.

I agree, but there’s a lot more nuance to this than maybe some here are understanding.

To pass efficiently, the floor needs to be spaced/spread out.  But you don’t get that spacing when perimeter shots aren’t falling. The defense congregates closer to the paint and says, “We know your shots are struggling, so go ahead and take them, and we’ll be in here waiting for when you decide to come inside or when you miss your outside shot.”

And when shots aren’t falling, the opposing team inevitably has more bodies for rim/paint protection and rebounding.

At the same time, we are now pressing for points and to simply make a basket, and this is when this team loses it.

Some switch flips in our scheme and we suddenly stop playing for rebounds and 2nd chances and just start sprinting the floor the moment anyone shoots anything. We want to score so bad we just start rushing to every next possession.

Now we’re tense and tired, effort on defense and rebounding dwindles, and it cascades into more bad shots and bad passing in a not-so spaced floor. And it snowballs.

Trae feels like he has to take the weight all on his shoulders and either spread the floor by sinking deep 3’s, or make a dynamic assist to get someone else a big play. And sometimes it works and sometimes he’s clearly winded and makes bad decisions.

But this is his job. This is why he’s here. He is THE field general running the team. And he does this at a top-3 PG in the league capacity.

The issue is, when he needs to come out, nobody is capable of keeping the same flow and style. Lou isn’t causing a defense to space, and he has to force his assists. There’s no creativity. Or, he just ball-hogs it a few times and shoots, which has a success rate of 100%-0%, because he’s either on or off.

We beat the Bucks with Trae out because literally everybody was shooting 50% while the Bucks were shooting 39%.

Yes assists are important and ~26 should be our norm. But our offense begins and ends with hitting 3-pointers with success right out the gate.

We spread a defense out and aren't pressing for points, and the world is our oyster.

The good news is we proved already these playoffs that we have multiple guys, both starters and off the bench, who can score and play under severe pressure, and the moment doesn’t beat them. But even then, everytime we proved this it was because our shots began falling.

Assists (and defense and rebounds) will come when floors are widely spaced for us on offense, and our shots are falling (usually 47%+ and 40%+ from 3). When we do this, everything else is easier and more efficient.

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2 hours ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

Also, let’s end this backup PG, who will only play 15 max minutes argument. 

Unless you are bringing in Derrick Rose(which I would absolutely LOVE to bring in) you really aren’t going to have a guy that isn’t a significant fall off from Trae. 

Next you really don’t know what you currently have outside of Lou as the other three guys didn’t play due to either injury or Youth in running the offense. 

Yeah I just disagree.

15 mins is almost 1/3rd of a game, and on top of this your #2 field general is usually dealing with bench players who are not starters for a reason.

Most good dynasties are about cohesion and experience together.  (Or, they just slap 3+ superstars together who simply play at higher levels and that’s enough.)

But our Hawks are really good because Trae doesn’t have to overthink. Collins and Capela just know when an alley-oop is coming simply because of Trae’s facial expression or body-language.

But notice how OO hasn't gelled with Trae like that yet?  Because the cohesion and wisdom isn’t there between them yet. (it’s coming along though)

Do Lou, Dunn, Goodwin, or Mays have that relationship with anyone, much less the bench unit??  He!! no.

Lou did his first and last alley-oops to JC and Capela in that game we won with Trae out.

I think it’s a pretty big deal for a guy who plays 1/3rd of the game and is going to be the field general while on the floor be able to do almost precisely what Trae does, at least with regards to style (force spacing, cause confusion in defenses, and know where your guys are for assists without thinking, and them know what’s coming without thinking).

We don’t have that in anyone off the bench, including the PG’s.

It would be great if Mays turned in to that guy, but we use to hope that about Goodwin, too.  Dunn is really an unknown, but maybe he stays and hopefully he watched and learned how this offense really runs. Lou is certainly not that guy.

All that said, there absolutely is massive falloff when Trae is off the floor.  Unless shots are falling at 50%+, our entire scheme changes, and this is typically when chuck-it and run begins.

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46 minutes ago, Beef said:

Yeah I just disagree

Yes, I see that. :lol:

And after all that, you have not said who would be a significant upgrade over what we have. 

By the way… The team with the “better” back up PG lost last night. Again.

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2 hours ago, Mr.11 said:

One thing the Sun's are really good at is sharing the ball.

Check out this play:

This is basketball at its best. Everyone was moving, touching the ball, looking to turn a good shot into a great one and it finally ended with Ayton getting a free run at the basket plus an and 1.

The only time the Hawks really played like this is when Trae Young was out in Game 4. Nothing against Trae Young, but offense gets easier when everyone is touching the ball, cutting, slashing (not just hanging out at the three point line) and we're not relying on Trae, Gallo, Lou, or whoever, to make plays in isolation, and that happened far too often. It's not sustainable.

The Sun's finished with 26 assists in Game 2. That should be the standard in Atlanta. Hopefully with a full off-season, Nate can truly bring out that kind of play. He's already instilled the culture. But it hasn't quite always showed up in practice and that's why the offense tended to stall when Trae was off the floor.

The ball moves faster than the man. This needs to be a point of emphasis. A team with this many good shooters should be averaging 26+ assists per game.

And a backup PG isn’t the answer to team passing. The team has decide as a collective group to play this way. 

When we stalled out, it was when we went iso and that was with OR without Trae on the court from what I saw. 

Matter of fact, we got really good once Trae missed a few games and then came back and “fit in” to what was already going on.

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3 minutes ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

And a backup PG isn’t the answer to team passing. The team has decide as a collective group to play this way. 

When we stalled out, it was when we went iso and that was with OR without Trae on the court from what I saw. 

Matter of fact, we got really good once Trae missed a few games and then came back and “fit in” to what was already going on.

It's a lot easier to "fit in" when the coach starts allowing you to call plays. It works both ways.

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