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So what WR do we draft in 2022?


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Pickens is a phenomenal talent and should go high. I just think they’ll turn to building the defense first, and grab a receiver outside round one. 
 

Honestly, I don’t even think it’s necessarily a reaction to Jones being gone, but prepping for Rid wanting more money and gaining some leverage.
 

I still think they pay Rid, since our cap situation will continue to get better and assuming he’s solid in the new system, but TFAS seem like guys who plan for everything. 

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21 hours ago, The Real Tony G. said:

And the Chiefs LOST a Super Bowl in part because the Bucs took Hill/Kelce off the board and nobody else could make a play. Their OL was dreadful, but Mahomes would scramble for 15 seconds and still nobody could get open. 
 

Meanwhile, Tampa's WR core was 5-6 deep with quality receivers. 
 

I get that people are still in their feelings, but acting as if drafting any WR in the first 2 days would be a bad pick is ridiculous.

The Bucs defense won that game with a masterclass performance in how they limited the Chiefs offense from doing what we know them to be capable of. That said I don't have an issue with taking a WR, but we know for a fact just looking at the list of SB winners over the last 10 years, how many of those teams were stacked at the receiver position? Seattle, New England, Pittsburgh, Denver, and Baltimore all had one guy that may have been top 10 at their position, with every other receiver being serviceable. The Bucs are an outlier to the norm in this regard, but did they did have one thing that's been consistent for most SB winners, a defense that came to play and showed out. 

We've had elite receiver core for years and it's never gotten us a ring, and that sounds true for many other teams that had great cores, but you don't see them in the history books with the best to win it every season either. So while I wouldn't mind another receiver and do think we could draft someone that's better than Gage, it's also completely possible to win a SB without 3 great receiving threats as history shows us. 

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1 hour ago, thanat0s said:

Pickens is a phenomenal talent and should go high. I just think they’ll turn to building the defense first, and grab a receiver outside round one. 
 

Honestly, I don’t even think it’s necessarily a reaction to Jones being gone, but prepping for Rid wanting more money and gaining some leverage.
 

I still think they pay Rid, since our cap situation will continue to get better and assuming he’s solid in the new system, but TFAS seem like guys who plan for everything. 

I wanted Ridley traded -this- offseason, so we could get a 1st and 3rd for him.... then we could draft a WR to take his place.   The Julio situation totally screwed up that idea...  

You may ask... why would another team trade for a WR when they themselves could draft a WR in the 1st rnd?  It's simple... some teams absolutely stink when it comes to drafting and developing WRs.    Just like the Falcons stink at drafting pass rushers in the 1st round (three whiffs in 15 years).

Trading for a proven WR also helps a team evaluate thier QBs, especially thier young guys.   If the proven WR fails, then perhaps the problem is the QB.....

In the end, I do not want to see any more Falcons WRs take up as much cap space as Julio did.  Julio was making Pro Bowl DE money.   DE... OT... CB... QB.   Those are the premium positions our money should go into.   We really need to trade Ridley before he starts asking for that kind of money.   Ridley is good, but he isn't Julio.

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56 minutes ago, TheHeartless said:

The Bucs defense won that game with a masterclass performance in how they limited the Chiefs offense from doing what we know them to be capable of. That said I don't have an issue with taking a WR, but we know for a fact just looking at the list of SB winners over the last 10 years, how many of those teams were stacked at the receiver position? Seattle, New England, Pittsburgh, Denver, and Baltimore all had one guy that may have been top 10 at their position, with every other receiver being serviceable. The Bucs are an outlier to the norm in this regard, but did they did have one thing that's been consistent for most SB winners, a defense that came to play and showed out. 

We've had elite receiver core for years and it's never gotten us a ring, and that sounds true for many other teams that had great cores, but you don't see them in the history books with the best to win it every season either. So while I wouldn't mind another receiver and do think we could draft someone that's better than Gage, it's also completely possible to win a SB without 3 great receiving threats as history shows us. 

Our WRs are:

1 1st rounder(CR)

1 6th rounder(Gage)

1 5th rounder(Sharpe)

1 7th rounder(Darby)

and a bunch of UDFA.

But we'd be "stacked" if we drafted one in the 2nd round next year? Make it make sense.

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28 minutes ago, egoprime II said:

I wanted Ridley traded -this- offseason, so we could get a 1st and 3rd for him.... then we could draft a WR to take his place.   The Julio situation totally screwed up that idea...  

You may ask... why would another team trade for a WR when they themselves could draft a WR in the 1st rnd?  It's simple... some teams absolutely stink when it comes to drafting and developing WRs.    Just like the Falcons stink at drafting pass rushers in the 1st round (three whiffs in 15 years).

Trading for a proven WR also helps a team evaluate thier QBs, especially thier young guys.   If the proven WR fails, then perhaps the problem is the QB.....

In the end, I do not want to see any more Falcons WRs take up as much cap space as Julio did.  Julio was making Pro Bowl DE money.   DE... OT... CB... QB.   Those are the premium positions our money should go into.   We really need to trade Ridley before he starts asking for that kind of money.   Ridley is good, but he isn't Julio.

Jones wasn’t even as good as the hype more than a handful of years. I’m in the camp of spending extra cash on the positions you mentioned, too.
 

I’m probably just tagging Rid for a year, but I can see them giving him one big contract at his age. Even Jones’ first contract was a good investment. It’s his second big deal that was such a travesty and really wrecked our ability to do anything. 

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On 6/7/2021 at 3:42 AM, ATLSlobberKnockers said:

Because we've lost Julio and may not want to pay Ridley. Got to have a legit wr. Also Hurst may well be gone. Id be happier with a top tier RB back but they just don't produce many of them these days.

Why wouldn't we want to pay Ridley? How many players in NFL history have put up the numbers Ridley has in his first three seasons?? The odds anyone we draft anywhere in the draft are better than Ridley are not 0%, but close.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, thanat0s said:

Jones wasn’t even as good as the hype more than a handful of years. I’m in the camp of spending extra cash on the positions you mentioned, too.
 

I’m probably just tagging Rid for a year, but I can see them giving him one big contract at his age. Even Jones’ first contract was a good investment. It’s his second big deal that was such a travesty and really wrecked our ability to do anything. 

Nah, Julio was the real deal. Double covered all game long every game with a few exceptions, and those exceptions ended up being historic performances. 

P.S. From 2014-2019 Julio led all position players in Aproximate Value, yards, and  receptions by a wide margin. 

Correction: Since his rookie year in 2011 he leads all NFL position players in yards, aproximate value, and receptions. So essentially he was the most productive position player in the entire league throughout his tenure as a Falcon. I think only Jerry Rice and Barry Sanders had more AV in a 9 year stretch than Julio Jones did from 2011 to 2019. Julio had a higher AV than Moss or TO in any 9 year stretch, though Owens did have a better 5 year stretch. 

Edited by Dr Long Shot
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24 minutes ago, Dr Long Shot said:

Nah, Julio was the real deal. Double covered all game long every game with a few exceptions, and those exceptions ended up being historic performances. 

P.S. From 2014-2019 Julio led all position players in Aproximate Value, yards, and  receptions by a wide margin. 

Correction: Since his rookie year in 2011 he leads all NFL position players in yards, aproximate value, and receptions. So essentially he was the most productive position player in the entire league throughout his tenure as a Falcon. I think only Jerry Rice and Barry Sanders had more AV in a 9 year stretch than Julio Jones did from 2011 to 2019. Julio had a higher AV than Moss or TO in any 9 year stretch, though Owens did have a better 5 year stretch. 

Everybody intentionally ignores his lack of ability to score TDs. It’s always about concocting stats that inflate catches and yards. He had some great years in those two categories, but he was a ghost most of the time in the red zone. 

I’d take Moss or Owens over Jones any day of the week, and ten times on Sunday. 

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36 minutes ago, thanat0s said:

Jones wasn’t even as good as the hype more than a handful of years. I’m in the camp of spending extra cash on the positions you mentioned, too.
 

I’m probably just tagging Rid for a year, but I can see them giving him one big contract at his age. Even Jones’ first contract was a good investment. It’s his second big deal that was such a travesty and really wrecked our ability to do anything. 

There is no doubt Julio is a great player, HOF caliber.   When Dimitroff traded for him, TD essentially 'married' Julio to the Falcons because no way could we lose Julio to free agency.   Plus with Blank saying he wanted Julio to stay a Falcon 'for life'.... Julio was sure to get paid.

Which is fine, -if- we already had a good pass rusher and CB.... but the Falcons did not have those things and giving Julio so much money, hurt the Falcons chances of acquiring FAs for those positions.   Losing Alford, Trufant and now Neal and Allen because of thier cap hits sure did not help, either.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, thanat0s said:

Everybody intentionally ignores his lack of ability to score TDs. It’s always about concocting stats that inflate catches and yards. He had some great years in those two categories, but he was a ghost most of the time in the red zone. 

I’d take Moss or Owens over Jones any day of the week, and ten times on Sunday. 

Two things about Julio and TDs... for one thing Jones was taken out of games at times, when the Falcons were ten-fifteen yards from scoring, because the shorter field nullified Jones greatest asset, his speed.   I always considered Julio to be a 'long ball' specialist-type WR.   Our coaches apparently thought Julio was kinda wasted in the red zone.

Because of the shorter field in the red zone, opposing defenses were able to single cover Julio, which nullified one of the big advantages of having Julio on the field.   Remember the 2017 Eagles playoff game?   Julio was single covered on that throw from Ryan (Julio was also seriously pass-interfered with IMO).

I wonder if there is a stat out there that shows average-yds-per-TD-catch.   This might be a good indicator comparing Julio to other WRs around the league.

Edited by egoprime II
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2 minutes ago, egoprime II said:

Two things about Julio and TDs... for one thing Jones was taken out of games at times, when the Falcons were ten-fifteen yards from scoring, because the shorter field nullified Jones greatest asset, his speed.   I always considered Julio to be a 'long ball' specialist-type WR.   Jones was kinda wasted in the red zone.

Because of the shorter field in the red zone, opposing defenses were able to single cover Julio, which nullified one of the big advantages of having Julio on the field.   Remember the 2017 Eagles playoff game?   Julio was single covered on that throw from Ryan (Julio was also seriously pass-interfered with IMO).

I wonder if there is a stat out there that shows average-yds-per-TD-catch.   This might be a good indicator comparing Julio to other WRs around the league.

I’ve said the same plenty. Jones is a great between the 20s player. All that open field amplified his abilities. Jones’ problem has always been tight quarters. He is simply too big and easily stopped when the field is short to ever be a serious threat for TDs. He has no short speed.
 

That area of the field is made for guys who can cut quickly and present a target. Everything happens too fast for him to be useful. That’s probably why he was taken out of plays down there a lot, too. Coaches had to see that. 

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17 hours ago, Knight of God said:

It's a passing league and we have two number one guys. Ridley and Pitts, but in a "passing league" I'm running the ball. That's what a passing league isn't prepared for. 

Dominance over uniformity.

There is some brilliance here. Theoretically teams are adding smaller, quicker, faster guys to defend the pass. A running attack should flourish in that environment.

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44 minutes ago, thanat0s said:

Everybody intentionally ignores his lack of ability to score TDs. It’s always about concocting stats that inflate catches and yards. He had some great years in those two categories, but he was a ghost most of the time in the red zone. 

I’d take Moss or Owens over Jones any day of the week, and ten times on Sunday. 

Saying you'd take Randy Moss over JJ isn't really going out on a limb, and TO, no way. His attitude alone would keep him off of my team. 

JJ does have some deficiencies in the red zone. No doubt. However, he has had quite a few opportunities missed because he had to wait on deep balls from MR. Some have mentioned timing as an issue, because of JJ's lack of practice time. There is probably some validity to that. MR is an excellent QB, and I love having him as our guy, but there have been plenty of deep ball misses.  

I believe that TD drafting JJ took this team to the next level, and we SHOULD have a Super Bowl as a result of that transaction. JJ helped put us in a position to win one, so I don't fault him for not winning one while he was here. 

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1 hour ago, Dr Long Shot said:

Why wouldn't we want to pay Ridley? How many players in NFL history have put up the numbers Ridley has in his first three seasons?? The odds anyone we draft anywhere in the draft are better than Ridley are not 0%, but close.

 

 

The issue for me is the money it will take to sign him. We need to stop spending an exorbitant amount of our cap on WR's. He may be better than a great college player coming out, but is the difference in production enough to justify the cap savings by going with the younger guy? I am starting to think no.

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1 hour ago, The Real Tony G. said:

Our WRs are:

1 1st rounder(CR)

1 6th rounder(Gage)

1 5th rounder(Sharpe)

1 7th rounder(Darby)

and a bunch of UDFA.

But we'd be "stacked" if we drafted one in the 2nd round next year? Make it make sense.

In 2016 the Falcons had six WRs and five TEs play in the 8th most prolific offense in NFL history.  Of those eleven players, only four were drafted by the Falcons, two of -those- were WRs.  Since 2016 the NFL has been flooded with quality WRs.   Some of the best WRs in the NFL were drafted in the second and third rounds.

I do not see WR as a premium position worthy of a 1st round pick.    CBs Pass rushers DTs and O linemen are much much harder to find.  Those positions are where our top draft picks need to be spent.

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2 hours ago, TheHeartless said:

The Bucs defense won that game with a masterclass performance in how they limited the Chiefs offense from doing what we know them to be capable of. That said I don't have an issue with taking a WR, but we know for a fact just looking at the list of SB winners over the last 10 years, how many of those teams were stacked at the receiver position? Seattle, New England, Pittsburgh, Denver, and Baltimore all had one guy that may have been top 10 at their position, with every other receiver being serviceable. The Bucs are an outlier to the norm in this regard, but did they did have one thing that's been consistent for most SB winners, a defense that came to play and showed out. 

We've had elite receiver core for years and it's never gotten us a ring, and that sounds true for many other teams that had great cores, but you don't see them in the history books with the best to win it every season either. So while I wouldn't mind another receiver and do think we could draft someone that's better than Gage, it's also completely possible to win a SB without 3 great receiving threats as history shows us. 

They won because KC couldn't protect Mahomes, which was a direct result of OL injuries.

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5 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

They won because KC couldn't protect Mahomes, which was a direct result of OL injuries.

And the Chiefs have fixed thier O line this offseason.  I admire that, its what a well run team does.

Contrast that with TDs management of this team.  How many years did this team go without legit players at RG, OC, pass rusher.... 

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21 minutes ago, thanat0s said:

I’ve said the same plenty. Jones is a great between the 20s player. All that open field amplified his abilities. Jones’ problem has always been tight quarters. He is simply too big and easily stopped when the field is short to ever be a serious threat for TDs. He has no short speed.
 

That area of the field is made for guys who can cut quickly and present a target. Everything happens too fast for him to be useful. That’s probably why he was taken out of plays down there a lot, too. Coaches had to see that. 

This explains perfectly why Ridley catches so many TDs.  Ridley was 190 when he was drafted, Julio is like 230.   Biiiig difference!

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15 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

Saying you'd take Randy Moss over JJ isn't really going out on a limb, and TO, no way. His attitude alone would keep him off of my team. 

JJ does have some deficiencies in the red zone. No doubt. However, he has had quite a few opportunities missed because he had to wait on deep balls from MR. Some have mentioned timing as an issue, because of JJ's lack of practice time. There is probably some validity to that. MR is an excellent QB, and I love having him as our guy, but there have been plenty of deep ball misses.  

I believe that TD drafting JJ took this team to the next level, and we SHOULD have a Super Bowl as a result of that transaction. JJ helped put us in a position to win one, so I don't fault him for not winning one while he was here. 

I’m not rehashing all the excuses for his not scoring. That waiting around for Matt being the most ridiculous of them.

He was paid insane amounts of money to get himself open inside the 20, and he has always been below average to lousy at it. 

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1 minute ago, thanat0s said:

I’m not rehashing all the excuses for his not scoring. That waiting around for Matt being the most ridiculous of them.

He was paid insane amounts of money to get himself open inside the 20, and he has always been below average to lousy at it. 

Those are 2 different situations - Inside the 20 work, and bombs that were under thrown. Both situations can be true.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

Saying you'd take Randy Moss over JJ isn't really going out on a limb, and TO, no way. His attitude alone would keep him off of my team. 

JJ does have some deficiencies in the red zone. No doubt. However, he has had quite a few opportunities missed because he had to wait on deep balls from MR. Some have mentioned timing as an issue, because of JJ's lack of practice time. There is probably some validity to that. MR is an excellent QB, and I love having him as our guy, but there have been plenty of deep ball misses.  

I believe that TD drafting JJ took this team to the next level, and we SHOULD have a Super Bowl as a result of that transaction. JJ helped put us in a position to win one, so I don't fault him for not winning one while he was here. 

Not to mention looking just a TDs is incredibly simplistic. How many TDs were scored due to the defrernsive attention JJ was drawing out there on the field? You can't just shrug that off and say it isn't a factor. The stat we should look at is points produced per drive when Julio is on the field vs off the field, which btw is roughly what AV for offensive players measures  (points responsible for per drive VS league average.)

Edited by Dr Long Shot
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