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Why do you think Julio Jones struggles to score touchdowns?


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Julio Jones is a beast when it comes to wild super man catches and accumulating receiving yards after catch. One stat that is puzzling is his low touchdown numbers. 

Why do you think Julio Jones touchdown numbers are lower than expected for an elite wide receiver? With a team that struggles in the redzone you would think the Falcons, Matt Ryan and Julio would figure out a way to get Julio the ball in the end zone.

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Just now, Falcons Fan MVP said:

Julio Jones is a beast when it comes to wild super man catches and accumulating receiving yards after catch. One stat that is puzzling is his low touchdown numbers. 

Why do you think Julio Jones touchdown numbers are lower than expected for an elite wide receiver? With a team that struggles in the redzone you would think the Falcons, Matt Ryan and Julio would figure out a way to get Julio the ball in the end zone.

I believe a big part of it is Matt just doesn't like to throw into double coverage in the redzone.    Matt isn't the most efficient redzone QB - I don't think it is all Matt's fault or all Julio's fault, etc - lots of factors.  Inability to run the ball has a lot to do w/ it as well - Falcons haven't had a decent running game in 4 years.

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Our OCs have been idiots in the redzone. I don’t hate Sark but his redzone offense was bad. Koetter was even worse. Shanny was okay but he wasn’t much better than the others in the redzone. I still don’t understand the philosophy of taking out Julio in the redzone to “free up the other guys.” 
 

G Dawg makes a good point in that our redzone running has been awful as well. Outside of some Gurley goal line TDs and some TDs in 2016, I barely remember any rushing TDs in the redzone. 

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Posted (edited)

Multiple reasons but here's a few:

1) As good as Julio is, he has never been an elite high point WR. It's fairly rare he comes down with them. He is not going to moss people too often. Yes, Show me a gif of Luke Kuechly or whatever random Pats DB got destroyed by Julio in the smoke fest. But outside of those 2, he has never been great at it. If you want to watch an elite high point WR go watch Deandre Hopkins.

2) On top of the fact Julio is not great at that ^^, Ryan's fades and high point redzone passes are normally not on point to begin with

3) Julio gets all the attention of apposing teams DBs and is more often than not doubled.

4) Most of our OC coordinators have not exactly been the smartest tools in the shed outside of Shanny

Edited by PriMeTiiMe
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Just now, PriMeTiiMe said:

Multiple reasons but here's a few:

1) As good as Julio is, he has never been an elite high point WR. He is not going to moss people too often. Yes, Show me a gif of Luke Kuechly or whatever random DB got destroyed by Julio in the smoke fest. But outside of those 2, he has never been great at it. If you want to watch an elite high point WR go watch Deandre Hopkins.

2) On top of the fact Julio is not great at that ^^, Ryan's fades are normally not on point to begin with

3) Julio gets all the attention of apposing teams DBs and is more often than not doubled.

4) Most of our OC coordinators have not exactly been the smartest tools in the shed outside of Shanny

The strange thing about your 2nd point is that I feel like Ryan hits guys in stride all the time EXCEPT Julio. It's so bizarre. Like he'll toss a 50 yard dime to Zaccheus, Gabriel, or even Aldrick Robinson. But the timing with Julio always feels off. 

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1 minute ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

The strange thing about your 2nd point is that I feel like Ryan hits guys in stride all the time EXCEPT Julio. It's so bizarre. Like he'll toss a 50 yard dime to Zaccheus, Gabriel, or even Aldrick Robinson. But the timing with Julio always feels off. 

It makes no sense. We literally sign dudes off the streets and Matt will hit them in game on a 40-50 yard TD but Julio and him barely ever connect in rhythm deep. 

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4 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

The strange thing about your 2nd point is that I feel like Ryan hits guys in stride all the time EXCEPT Julio. It's so bizarre. Like he'll toss a 50 yard dime to Zaccheus, Gabriel, or even Aldrick Robinson. But the timing with Julio always feels off. 

Very true. I think Julio is a lot faster than any other WR Ryan throws to (now or ever) and Julio on those deep passes seems to simply outrun Ryans passes so he has to slow down for them like 90% of the time. 

You would think the timing would have been figured out years ago but clearly that will never happen at this point.

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9 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

The strange thing about your 2nd point is that I feel like Ryan hits guys in stride all the time EXCEPT Julio. It's so bizarre. Like he'll toss a 50 yard dime to Zaccheus, Gabriel, or even Aldrick Robinson. But the timing with Julio always feels off. 

I've always felt that something wasn't there with Julio & Ryan as far as chemistry.

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7 minutes ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

2) On top of the fact Julio is not great at that ^^, Ryan's fades and high point redzone passes are normally not on point to begin with

^^This - Now we have a 4.44/40, 6'6", TE with almost 3' arms and 4' vertical to jump up and catch those overthrown fade passes from Ryan so maybe the coverages will shift from JJ somewhat and he can turn into a scoring machine as well. 

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19 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

I believe a big part of it is Matt just doesn't like to throw into double coverage in the redzone.    Matt isn't the most efficient redzone QB - I don't think it is all Matt's fault or all Julio's fault, etc - lots of factors.  Inability to run the ball has a lot to do w/ it as well - Falcons haven't had a decent running game in 4 years.

Julio has never been great in the redzone...wasn't in college either.  I think he needs to start his routes slower in the redzone like Ridley does.  You come out slow and then you can give em a little shake and accelerate into your break.  Same thing with the ball in your hand, slow down and give them a hesitation move.  Julio just runs full speed straight at people.  I think he'd score more td's if he focused more on keeping his balance and strength as well as some hesitation moves instead of being tackled at the 1 or 2 yard line.  

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29 minutes ago, Atlantafan21 said:

It makes no sense. We literally sign dudes off the streets and Matt will hit them in game on a 40-50 yard TD but Julio and him barely ever connect in rhythm deep. 

I saw an interview with Kurt Benkert recently where he mentioned that while it was always cool to know he was throwing it to Julio in practice, Julio was the hardest guy to throw to. He said that because Julio is so much bigger & faster than everyone else, he would often get farther down the field than you'd expect, or hit his spots much sooner than the rest of the WRs. That made the timing very different for throws to Julio compared to the same pattern run by any other player on the roster.

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37 minutes ago, irrelevantfalconsfan said:

Because he's always seeing double to triple coverage in the red zone. Pitts should help with that

Exactly. Hard to score touchdowns when the ball isn't thrown your way in the red zone. Pitts will help with that tremendously.

The other issue that has limited Julio's touchdowns over the years is Matt Ryan's lack of being able to hit him in stride and would be touchdowns ending up with Julio having to slow down to catch the ball and getting tackled as a result. Which, BTW, has nothing to do with Ryan's arm strength, or lack there of. Ryan has never had any issues hitting other receivers in stride for long touchdowns but it's always been an issue with Julio. I don't know why but that's just the way it is.

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37 minutes ago, irrelevantfalconsfan said:

Because he's always seeing double to triple coverage in the red zone. Pitts should help with that

Even outside the rz, other receivers still put up #s with doubles. Ab scores from anywhere, Adam's had 18tds? Plenty im sure came outside the rz and I know that man see doubles too being their option 1 2 and 3a and b lol

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Posted (edited)

Julio is a down the field receiver. He has tremendous speed that CBs need to respect. While in full speed, he can stop on a dime or make his break. He is not a one step, one cut guy. Also, Matt is not the best at WR fades in the endzone

Edited by Mister pudding
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33 minutes ago, irrelevantfalconsfan said:

Because he's always seeing double to triple coverage in the red zone. Pitts should help with that

I think this will make a big difference. Not just a good receiving TE, but a big, very strong and physical, fast and instinctual one that has a huge catching radius, wins at the jump ball and catches dam near everything thrown at him.

As a red zone/ end zone target it doesn’t get any better than this. defenses will have to focus on him and only so many good enough defenders on a defenses to cover Julio, Ridley and Pitts. What a nightmare for defenses, that helps the running game as well. 


 

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44 minutes ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

Multiple reasons but here's a few:

1) As good as Julio is, he has never been an elite high point WR. It's fairly rare he comes down with them. He is not going to moss people too often. Yes, Show me a gif of Luke Kuechly or whatever random Pats DB got destroyed by Julio in the smoke fest. But outside of those 2, he has never been great at it. If you want to watch an elite high point WR go watch Deandre Hopkins.

2) On top of the fact Julio is not great at that ^^, Ryan's fades and high point redzone passes are normally not on point to begin with

3) Julio gets all the attention of apposing teams DBs and is more often than not doubled.

4) Most of our OC coordinators have not exactly been the smartest tools in the shed outside of Shanny

To add on to the point, the guys who score a lot of TDs in the redzone are either high point guys, or they're short area quickness guys who create separation in tight spaces.

Julio has great route running for a guy his size, but he's not a turn on a dime switchback guy in small spaces (the red zone).

So for him to make hay it would have to be as a high point specialist, and that's just not his strength (as opposed to an Evans, Fitz, Moss, C Johnson)

 

I think it's ok to say Julio is not as great in the red zone as he is elsewhere.  He is an amazing wide receiver.  He's very fast and has great routes for being as big as he is.  But he's not dominant down there.  That's ok.  He's still great.

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I’ve given my take plenty, but here goes again. Julio is tremendous when he has tons of real estate to roam around in between the 20s. His size and eventual top end speed are a total mismatch when the field dimensions aren’t an issue.

His problem is that he is simply too big to make the tight turns and find quick opening lanes in the end zone. Those situations are where more normal sized WRs are much more productive. The game moves so fast in that area of the field that by the time he becomes a viable target, the play is over. Either that, or teams use the end lines as extra defenders and funnel him there to neutralize him.
 

In fact, if he was his size and athleticism at TE, and not the focal point of the offense, he’d probably be able to leak out for more TDs than he can at WR. As it is, guys Ridley’s size are better suited to red zone offense in today’s game.

jmo, of course.

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56 minutes ago, irrelevantfalconsfan said:

Because he's always seeing double to triple coverage in the red zone. Pitts should help with that

Not just that but the back of the end zone becomes another defender. He can only run laterally to get open instead of downfield. His best attribute is running past defenders and you can't do that when the field shortens up.

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

The strange thing about your 2nd point is that I feel like Ryan hits guys in stride all the time EXCEPT Julio. It's so bizarre. Like he'll toss a 50 yard dime to Zaccheus, Gabriel, or even Aldrick Robinson. But the timing with Julio always feels off. 

Because Julio never practices? Over exaggeration I know, but often feels that way...

Edited by Mr.Blank
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