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What Is Your Preferred Team Type?


AUTiger7222
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What Is Your Preferred Team Type?  

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  1. 1. What Is Your Preferred Team Type?

    • Elite QB = Average Team
    • Average QB = Elite Team


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For me I honestly rather have an all-around elite team where I can win games with average QB play than elite QB play surrounded by average QB play. Why? Well, if the ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl I can look at the Falcons of the last 13 years and see that we've had great QB (a few years of elite QB play) play surrounded by an average team and haven't won the Super Bowl. But I've seen elite teams with good/average QB play win the Super Bowl. Examples of this are the 2000 Ravens, 2001 Patriots, 2002 Buccaneers, 2003 Patriots, 2004 Patriots and 2005 Steelers. All teams had QBs in place to just "not lose the game" surrounded by an elite team and all won the big prize. So yeah, that's what my goal is, to win the big prize.

And yes, Tom Brady was merely good those first several years in New England. Revisionists like to think Brady has been throwing 30 and 40 TD passes every year since he's been in the NFL when that's far from reality. Those Patriots teams were built on a strong running game and playing games close to the vest so to take pressure of Brady. When the Patriots lost games in those years it was when they were forced to put the ball in Brady's hands and throw it every play. Brady wasn't capable of getting the job done consistently in those days. Brady averaged 24 touchdowns and 13 interceptions per year while completing only 61.3% of his passes. Brady's passer rating was 88.4. Ryan for his career has averaged 26.7 touchdowns and 12.2 interceptions per season while completing 65.4% of his passes. Ryan's passer rating is 94.5.

Now yes, I know, the game has changed and it's gotten easier to play QB in the NFL blah, blah, blah. Save it. Go and look at how Brady's rankings were in several stats in those years. He was usually in the 5-10 range in things like completion percentage, yards and touchdowns. As this message board has made known on here for 13 years, Matt Ryan's play has been in the 5-10 range most of his career. But I digress.

The reason I'm posting this thread is simple, I don't want the Falcons to draft a QB at 4 and it has less to do with Matt Ryan and more to do with I want a trade back and see the Falcons gain picks and start building an elite team so that we don't need an elite QB to try to win games. Been watching this mess for 13 years and I'm ready for a change cause the current way of doing things isn't working. If we draft a QB with the 4th pick at the expense of trying to build an elite team I'm gonna be disappointed.

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A good coach and play-caller trumps both... And we just got the guy that made Tannehill look like an All-Pro and turned Derrick Henry into a monster!!! Whether average or elite as long as the coach plays to his players strengths and puts the team into a position to win that's all you can ask for

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5 minutes ago, ramonezy said:

A good coach and play-caller trumps both... And we just got the guy that made Tannehill look like an All-Pro and turned Derrick Henry into a monster!!! Whether average or elite as long as the coach plays to his players strengths and puts the team into a position to win that's all you can ask for

Absolutely. But even the best coaches need some semblance of talent to work with. It's why the Patriots who have rarely spent money decided to spend like stupid this offseason. Belichick didn't have nearly enough talent to work with last year so they went and got him some talent and had the cap room to do it.

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Lol I love this argument. Since 2010, the only average QBs to win SBs are Flacco, Foles, and *maybe* Eli. That's 3/12 SBs. 25%. You immediately go to the turn of the century for examples because using recent history doesn't support your argument. Look at what happened when Jimmy G and Jared Goff got there. 

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1 minute ago, vel said:

Lol I love this argument. Since 2010, the only average QBs to win SBs are Flacco, Foles, and *maybe* Eli. That's 3/12 SBs. 25%. You immediately go to the turn of the century for examples because using recent history doesn't support your argument. Look at what happened when Jimmy G and Jared Goff got there. 

******* thank you so much

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15 minutes ago, AUTiger7222 said:

For me I honestly rather have an all-around elite team where I can win games with average QB play than elite QB play surrounded by average QB play. Why? Well, if the ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl I can look at the Falcons of the last 13 years and see that we've had great QB (a few years of elite QB play) play surrounded by an average team and haven't won the Super Bowl. But I've seen elite teams with good/average QB play win the Super Bowl. Examples of this are the 2000 Ravens, 2001 Patriots, 2002 Buccaneers, 2003 Patriots, 2004 Patriots and 2005 Steelers. All teams had QBs in place to just "not lose the game" surrounded by an elite team and all won the big prize. So yeah, that's what my goal is, to win the big prize.

And yes, Tom Brady was merely good those first several years in New England. Revisionists like to think Brady has been throwing 30 and 40 TD passes every year since he's been in the NFL when that's far from reality. Those Patriots teams were built on a strong running game and playing games close to the vest so to take pressure of Brady. When the Patriots lost games in those years it was when they were forced to put the ball in Brady's hands and throw it every play. Brady wasn't capable of getting the job done consistently in those days. Brady averaged 24 touchdowns and 13 interceptions per year while completing only 61.3% of his passes. Brady's passer rating was 88.4. Ryan for his career has averaged 26.7 touchdowns and 12.2 interceptions per season while completing 65.4% of his passes. Ryan's passer rating is 94.5.

Now yes, I know, the game has changed and it's gotten easier to play QB in the NFL blah, blah, blah. Save it. Go and look at how Brady's rankings were in several stats in those years. He was usually in the 5-10 range in things like completion percentage, yards and touchdowns. As this message board has made known on here for 13 years, Matt Ryan's play has been in the 5-10 range most of his career. But I digress.

The reason I'm posting this thread is simple, I don't want the Falcons to draft a QB at 4 and it has less to do with Matt Ryan and more to do with I want a trade back and see the Falcons gain picks and start building an elite team so that we don't need an elite QB to try to win games. Been watching this mess for 13 years and I'm ready for a change cause the current way of doing things isn't working. If we draft a QB with the 4th pick at the expense of trying to build an elite team I'm gonna be disappointed.

I've highlighted the parts of your post that seems a bit off. 

Ryan has thrown 30+ TDs three times in his 13 seasons (never 40). Isn't that the "merely good" area that Brady is being relegated to for his "first several years" for not throwing 30-40 TDs, rather than "great QB (a few years of elite QB play)"? Seems like the Falcons have had 12 seasons of solid, sometimes great, QB play, 

 

p.s. - i agree with your choice of "team results > QB stats," and also think trading back to acquire more 2nd and 3rd round picks (and future 1st round picks) is the smart play (especially after making Ryan's dead money situation next offseason).

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18 minutes ago, Kaptain Krazy said:

I've highlighted the parts of your post that seems a bit off. 

Ryan has thrown 30+ TDs three times in his 13 seasons (never 40). Isn't that the "merely good" area that Brady is being relegated to for his "first several years" for not throwing 30-40 TDs, rather than "great QB (a few years of elite QB play)"? Seems like the Falcons have had 12 seasons of solid, sometimes great, QB play, 

 

p.s. - i agree with your choice of "team results > QB stats," and also think trading back to acquire more 2nd and 3rd round picks (and future 1st round picks) is the smart play (especially after making Ryan's dead money situation next offseason).

I wasn't just basing that off TD passes alone. I was talking about the whole package. And Ryan has been a great QB for most of his time with the Falcons with a few elite years mixed in. His first 3 years he was definitely nothing more than a game manager as Brady was. Ryan became a great QB much earlier in his career than Brady did.

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4 minutes ago, JCITOW said:

Is it possible for an average team to play elite during the playoffs, go to and win SB? Would that make that average team an elite team on that SB run? I choose B.

Yes, it's very possible. Look at the 2007 Giants, 2010 Packers, 2011 Giants and 2012 Ravens for some examples. None of those teams were great teams during the regular season but the playoffs happened and all of a sudden they flipped a switch.

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31 minutes ago, vel said:

Lol I love this argument. Since 2010, the only average QBs to win SBs are Flacco, Foles, and *maybe* Eli. That's 3/12 SBs. 25%. You immediately go to the turn of the century for examples because using recent history doesn't support your argument. Look at what happened when Jimmy G and Jared Goff got there. 

First off, I just named teams right off the top of my head. I didn't do any research before I made this thread. Now that is out of the way.

If you disagree that you can win a Super Bowl with an elite team and average QB play then that's fine. I just now I've seen great/elite QB play and far too many losing seasons to go along with it and I'm quite frankly tired of it. I want a change. Give me an elite defense. If I've got to sacrifice the elite QB to get the elite defense I'm taking the elite defense any day.

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32 minutes ago, MoFalconsFan56 said:

Game isn’t the same as it was 20 years ago. Need a great qb to win. Can’t even hit ppl anymore without flags. So many ppl want great defense but want to pass on the number 1 CB prospect to draft a TE. Ppl on here don’t even know their own identity let alone the identity they want for the falcons

I don't care who the Falcons draft as long as they put an elite defense on the field. Tom Brady never won a Super Bowl without a defense that was 8th or better in points allowed. It didn't matter how good Tom Brady was, Brady had the defense backing him up. If he had Matt Ryan's defense the Bucs don't win the Super Bowl last year. That is an indisputable fact.

Everyone is so quick to want to get rid of Matt Ryan "because he's the reason the Falcons defense sucks" and it's utter ******** and I'm tired of reading it.

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1 minute ago, AUTiger7222 said:

Yes, it's very possible. Look at the 2007 Giants, 2010 Packers, 2011 Giants and 2012 Ravens for some examples. None of those teams were great teams during the regular season but the playoffs happened and all of a sudden they flipped a switch.

So if that’s possible, could it also be possible that the average team was actually an elite team that came together as an elite team late in the season? I believe that an average team can actually become elite during a season. I do not believe that any team playing average football will win a SB.

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1 minute ago, AUTiger7222 said:

First off, I just named teams right off the top of my head. I didn't do any research before I made this thread. Now that is out of the way.

If you disagree that you can win a Super Bowl with an elite team and average QB play then that's fine. I just now I've seen great/elite QB play and far too many losing seasons to go along with it and I'm quite frankly tired of it. I want a change. Give me an elite defense. If I've got to sacrifice the elite QB to get the elite defense I'm taking the elite defense any day.

There are several elite teams that don't even MAKE the Super Bowl because their QB holds them back. Look at the Colts. One of the most complete rosters in the league. On their third QB because it's not working. Wentz will have to be better than Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes just to get them there. 

Yes, I want an elite defense. I want an elite team. But you can sacrifice the elite QB for elite defense all you want. You'll be rolling the dice on an unlikely event happening. That's what history says. 

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1 minute ago, vel said:

There are several elite teams that don't even MAKE the Super Bowl because their QB holds them back. Look at the Colts. One of the most complete rosters in the league. On their third QB because it's not working. Wentz will have to be better than Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes just to get them there. 

Yes, I want an elite defense. I want an elite team. But you can sacrifice the elite QB for elite defense all you want. You'll be rolling the dice on an unlikely event happening. That's what history says. 

So you're fine with continuing to see the same movie the Falcons have shown you for the past 13 years? Because drafting a QB at 4 will get you the same result that we got in 2020, 2019, and 2018.

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3 minutes ago, AUTiger7222 said:

I don't care who the Falcons draft as long as they put an elite defense on the field. Tom Brady never won a Super Bowl without a defense that was 8th or better in points allowed. It didn't matter how good Tom Brady was, Brady had the defense backing him up. If he had Matt Ryan's defense the Bucs don't win the Super Bowl last year. That is an indisputable fact.

Everyone is so quick to want to get rid of Matt Ryan "because he's the reason the Falcons defense sucks" and it's utter ******** and I'm tired of reading it.

I agree

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4 minutes ago, JCITOW said:

So if that’s possible, could it also be possible that the average team was actually an elite team that came together as an elite team late in the season? I believe that an average team can actually become elite during a season. I do not believe that any team playing average football will win a SB.

Absolutely true and I agree.

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Just now, AUTiger7222 said:

So you're fine with continuing to see the same movie the Falcons have shown you for the past 13 years? Because drafting a QB at 4 will get you the same result that we got in 2020, 2019, and 2018.

I don't think the movie is changing in 2021. Drafting a QB or drafting Pitts or Parsons or Penei or Patrick won't change that. 

Build for the future. To prevent this from being the same movie for the next 10 years. But you ain't doing it with an average QB. 

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