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if ELITE QB available at #4, tell me how that's not the best pick - I don't think you can convince me


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A team simply cannot pass up on a once in a generation franchise QB sitting right there for the taking in the first few picks of an NFL draft. 

Indeed, if you get these franchise QBs like Ryan Leaf,  Heath Shuler, Akile Smith, Joey Harrington, Vince Young or Blake Bortles, it is worth whatever it takes to move up and get them.  These opportunities are rare.

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3 minutes ago, gazoo said:

A team simply cannot pass up on a once in a generation franchise QB sitting right there for the taking in the first few picks of an NFL draft. 

Indeed, if you get these franchise QBs like Ryan Leaf,  Heath Shuler, Akile Smith, Joey Harrington, Vince Young or Blake Bortles, it is worth whatever it takes to move up and get them.  These opportunities are rare.

There was an thread about Alex Smith bouncing around. #1 overall franchise QB who has been on three teams and been replaced twice by other franchise QBs.

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32 minutes ago, Williamb said:

Remember when bellbottoms were in style? They had a hype moment too.

Remember that was 3 years ago and one of these QBs won a Natty as a Freshman and the other came in 2nd runner-up in Heisman and beat the other this year to get to the Natty?

Remember that? 

You might want to see an alzheimer's doc as you seem to remember things from a long time ago but not the last three years. ;)

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8 minutes ago, gazoo said:

A team simply cannot pass up on a once in a generation franchise QB sitting right there for the taking in the first few picks of an NFL draft. 

Indeed, if you get these franchise QBs like Ryan Leaf,  Heath Shuler, Akile Smith, Joey Harrington, Vince Young or Blake Bortles, it is worth whatever it takes to move up and get them.  These opportunities are rare.

tell us again how great Vic Beasley is gazoo.   never get tired of hearing about it.

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13 minutes ago, Jesus said:

There was an thread about Alex Smith bouncing around. #1 overall franchise QB who has been on three teams and been replaced twice by other franchise QBs.

What we are missing in the debate is the risk factor. Those claiming we simply cannot pass on these once in a lifetime franchise QBs seemingly suggest there is no risk, you simply draft this QB and you are all set for 10 years or more.

 It if you spend enormous resources moving up or just using the 4th pick and miss on the QB, it sets you back years. That’s the other side of the coin. That #4 pick could parlay into 3 or 4 high quality starters.  
 

 

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1 minute ago, g-dawg said:

Remember that was 3 years ago and one of these QBs won a Natty as a Freshman and the other came in 2nd runner-up in Heisman and beat the other this year to get to the Natty?

Remember that? 

You might want to see an alzheimer's doc as you seem to remember things from a long time ago but not the last three years. ;)

Yeah I remember one of them looking like he was completely outmatched in that last natty too. And 2 games before. But, get over yourself. I personally don't see the hype with any (including lawrence) of the top 4. I'd rather have mac jones all day.

But, I'd just as soon build a defense that doesn't blow last qtr leads and then get howell or daniels next year.

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1 minute ago, gazoo said:

What we are missing in the debate is the risk factor. Those claiming we simply cannot pass on these once in a lifetime franchise QBs seemingly suggest there is no risk, you simply draft this QB and you are all set for 10 years or more.

 It if you spend enormous resources moving up or just using the 4th pick and miss on the QB, it sets you back years. That’s the other side of the coin. That #4 pick could parlay into 3 or 4 high quality starters.  

And the defense will still suck.

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8 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Remember that was 3 years ago and one of these QBs won a Natty as a Freshman and the other came in 2nd runner-up in Heisman and beat the other this year to get to the Natty?

Remember that? 

You might want to see an alzheimer's doc as you seem to remember things from a long time ago but not the last three years. ;)

Oh btw where did he finish with that heisman this year. I think the last 2 went home and sulked.

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1 minute ago, gazoo said:

Teams that are built for success like the Bucs last year can attract a QB like Brady. They used their picks to stack the team with talent around a QB, which attracted a QB with little risk, and won a Super Bowl. 
 

Yep and tell me this who picks a player at 4 to sit.Too me that makes zero sense.

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Just now, gazoo said:

Teams that are built for success like the Bucs last year can attract a QB like Brady. They used their picks to stack the team with talent around a QB, which attracted a QB with little risk, and won a Super Bowl. 
 

This team, in Smith's offense, can go out there right now and put up 26-28 pts per game easy.

But they will also be giving up 26-28 pts per game. The team needs replacements for Oliver, Rico, Neal, and Takk before a replacement for Ryan. 

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5 minutes ago, Jesus said:

This team, in Smith's offense, can go out there right now and put up 26-28 pts per game easy.

But they will also be giving up 26-28 pts per game. The team needs replacements for Oliver, Rico, Neal, and Takk before a replacement for Ryan. 

I agree with your assessment. Sucks this draft is light at top on defensive talent, but there is plenty there for us between our 2nd round pick and 4th rounders.  I want to trade down out of 4th spot and pick up an OL, edge and safety in first 40 picks of draft. There are some corners and a RB after that.

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25 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Yep and tell me this who picks a player at 4 to sit.Too me that makes zero sense.

That’s another part of this that is simply too distasteful to me. Use what we could parlay into 3 or 4 starters on a guy who will ride the pine at least one season and probably two.

i have no problem using a 3rd round pick on one we think has the tools to be a franchise starter one day. 

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58 minutes ago, gazoo said:

I agree with your assessment. Sucks this draft is light at top on defensive talent, but there is plenty there for us between our 2nd round pick and 4th rounders.  I want to trade down out of 4th spot and pick up an OL, edge and safety in first 40 picks of draft. There are some corners and a RB after that.

I'll go out on a limb and say the defensive talent in this draft is as undervalued as the offensive talent is overvalued.

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You're argument represents the fatal flaw in logic.  We aren't good enough to Contend so we need a QB now.  That is backwards you want to protect a young QB on a good team not leave him to the wolves until you can help him out.  Build a better roster with the veterans we have and when you feel you have a strong roster switch Ryan out for a young kid.  Just like KC did with Alex Smith and Mahomes.

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1 hour ago, gazoo said:

A team simply cannot pass up on a once in a generation franchise QB sitting right there for the taking in the first few picks of an NFL draft. 

Indeed, if you get these franchise QBs like Ryan Leaf,  Heath Shuler, Akile Smith, Joey Harrington, Vince Young or Blake Bortles, it is worth whatever it takes to move up and get them.  These opportunities are rare.

Remember when Blake Bortles was hyped as a franchise QB after he lit it up throwing at his pro day

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10 hours ago, g-dawg said:

DISCLAIMER - NOT THE TOPIC:  As we know,  Matt has been elite QB for much of his career and has never been less than above average - even in the less impressive years.   I tip my hat to him, glad we drafted him - glad he's a Falcon and there is a case to be made that he is the best Falcon in the history of the franchise - the only others in consideration are Julio Jones and Tommy Nobis.   Obviously Mike Kenn had a stellar career and others - most of the truly elites had such a short run - Jamal Anderson and Deion Sanders - that they don't even bare mentioning - anyway,  if this topic turns into all-time Falcons, I will delete it.    Main point in mentioning is so this doesn't get turned into "g-dawg's a Matt Ryan hater" - because I'm not and my 15yrs on this messageboard bares it out.    I do criticize him from time-to-time and not a total homer but I'm a net positive fan on Matt Ryan.   I do see some slippage and don't foresee him playing as well as Brady into his late 30's and 40's. Brady is the GOAT and not a real human.

 

Onto the topic at Hand - "if an ELITE QB available at #4, you cannot convince me how that's not the best pick."

As you all know, this is a very good QUARTERBACK draft - is it great?  only time will tell but it certainly could be.   You probably need 3-4 years to truly render the quarterback grade on the 2021 draft but I believe it has the chance to be a truly great class.

The Class as currently ranked by the NFL media:  (1) Trevor Lawrence-Clemson,  (2) Zach Wilson-BYU,  (3) Justin Fields-Ohio State, (4) Trey Lance-NDSU,  (5) Mac Jones-Alabama,  (6) Kyle Trask-Florida

 

To me,  with this QB class it's "go big or go home" - you are either drafting your future starter and you believe in him or you don't.   I am aware of the exceptions of all-time greats and current greats selected after the 1st round but that doesn't change the fact that the majority of NFL QBs in the modern age that are starters or become starters and elite go early (Brady/Wilson notwithstanding).

To skip over a potential franchise altering Quarterback at #4 to draft another position and build around a 36 yr old QB whose best days are behind him and whose mobility and playmaking have always been limited just isn't a good plan - IF YOU (TERRY FONTENOT) really believes that a QB in this draft available at #4 is a franchise standard barer for 15 years.  

As you all are, I am excited about Arthur Smith, the new offense, hopefully a revived running game and a real defensive coordinator who says things like  "all ELEVEN positions on defense will rush the quarterback and the offense isn't going to know from where it is coming."   Coaching matters and this team will likely be coached better than it was.  Having said all of that - there are too many teams with better 53 man rosters with better stars that make more plays and have more depth - unless you see the Falcons climbing over these teams in the next two years w/ Penei Sewell or Kyle Pitts or Patrick Surtain or some glorious trade-down - AND - you as GM believe their is a franchise-altering QB is available at #4 - YOU TAKE THE QUARTERBACK - PERIOD.

We all do our mock drafts and our mock free agency every year believing the Falcons are going to fix all their problems in one off-season and we are going to draw this "Royal Flush" of a hand where it all works out and you get 6-7 impact guys - that just almost never happens.     Right now the BUCS are better, the RAMS are better, the PACKERS are better,  the SAINTS, even w/o a QB are better.   The BEARS are a qb away from being a huge threat.

The Falcons roster is at a real low point now and it's time we acknowledge it -  We have 3-4 guys that can play on defense, we have an aging QB and stud WR and we have an offensive line that, for all the investment recently, has been extremely poor.  We have no running game.  We are over the salary cap and as long as Matt and Julio are on the team with their huge caps - there is limited things Terry Fontenot can do.

I don't give TWO SHEOTS about 2021 - as if we don't go QB,  you are looking at a best case-scenario of probably going from 4-12 to 9-7 - that is the best case scenario - would that be more fun? absolutely it would.   Does that get you in the playoffs?  NO, not in most years - even if you got to the playoffs, do you even win a playoff game? NO

I am in this for a SUPERBOWL - nothing else.    Build a team that can win a SuperBowl and lengthen your time-horizon to do so.    Could Matt Ryan win you a SuperBowl right now?  if you put Matt Ryan on the St. Louis Rams or San Francisco 69ers, could he be part of a superbowl team?  perhaps.   Would he be "the reason"? NO.     By the time Fontenot gets "his team" - if he is a truly good GM (to be determined) - not only will Matt not be "the reason" the Falcons could win the SB, I'm not even sure he would be the "system QB" that could get it done - this roster is a 2-3 year rebuild - one extra stud OLineman or Tight End or Cornerback isn't going to open up a Superbowl in 2022 or 2023 - it just isn't.

As Falcons fans, we all want to believe our team is close......we see it here every day - and that's fine, there is no fun in being negative and preaching doom and gloom - partly why I enjoy the off-season on TATF more than visiting during the season - in the off-season, hope springs eternal and in-season, 5 games in when the Falcons are 0-5 or 1-4 - this place can be miserable.

 

You are Terry Fontenot

You want to build YOUR TEAM

You don't want to "add on" to Thomas Dimitroff's team

You want to build a dynasty

You want it to last a decade or more

You want to open up the window

Julio Jones is 32 years old

Matt Ryan will be 36 years old to start the season

This is Dimitroff's roster

it's not your roster - it's not close to the roster you want to build

 

Most of you know by now that I strongly advocate for Justin Fields - I have seen him up and close and personal since his junior year at Harrison High - I have seen him not in the Ohio State offense.  I saw him throw three dimes at UGA when he finally got to play a half of football - his talent - his skills - they are ELITE.    Does he need seasoning at NFL level?  Absolutely.       But this guy is a game-changer - he can ALTER the game.    Trevor Lawrence is more of a finished product and was in more pro-style offense at Clemson and his head coach didn't waste his Freshman year like Kirby did at UGA.      I believe w/ that lost Freshman season and the shortened COVID year, he's a little undervalued by the NFL media and casual fans.  I understand the criticisms but they are more - in my opinion - based on the Ohio State offense and failure of other, much less talented OSU QBs at NFL level than anything else.   Remember when "Penn State running backs" were the "snake-bit position/school" and it got into everyone's heads - then Larry Johnson came along.    Forget Ohio State.....forget the OSU QBs of Christmas Past - look at the talent.   look at the PRODUCTION.   look at the TD/INT ratio.   This guy's a beast - is he ready to be a "Day #1" starter in the NFL?  No.   Why not?  He just needs more experience and he will have to adjust to a new offense....Will he be ready by 2022?  Yes, I believe he will and 2022 will be his effective rookie season as he would back-up Matt and learn the NFL game and what it's like to be a pro.

Has Ohio State's Justin Fields played his last college game? | The Blade

I am also highly intrigued by both Zach Wilson and Trey Lance.   I know many have placed Wilson as the clear#2 - I don't agree necessarily with this as I would take Fields at #2 but I do like Wilson - and I do like Trey Lance.   Clearly Lance is the youngest, played the worst competition and is the riskiest player of the 4 - but I like him.     I am glad that both Fontenot and Arthur Smith attended his workout and I expect those two to be at Fields and Wilson's workout as well - even if they ultimately don't take at quarterback at #4 - they need to investigate all 4 thoroughly and vet their talent, their character/leadership and their tape and physical info.

BYU football: This Super Bowl-winning QB would draft Zach Wilson No. 1 -  Deseret NewsPotential spring FCS playoffs leveled with NDSU's Trey Lance declaring for  NFL Draft | Montana State University Bobcats | billingsgazette.com

It's safe to say that two QBs will be gone by the time the Falcons go on the clock at #4 - right now, it seems likely the two gone are Trevor and Zach (talk about frat-boy names :D ).    The #3 pick with the Dolphins feels like a "trade spot" to me but anything could happen there as well - Dolphins could take a QB, I just don't believe they would - they would either trade the pick for more draft equity or trade it to Texans(and more) for DeShaun Watson.

One thing we know for sure - at least one of the 4 QBs I just listed will be available at #4.    I know many think you can trade down and get Trey Lance - I'm not so sure about that.     If  Lawrence, Fields or Wilson were at #4 and I was Falcons GM, today knowing what I know today - I would take either of those three.       Lance? I wouldn't commit to that yet but I might.

If you draft an ELITE QB at #4, you have opened your SuperBowl window up from 2023-2035 - if Fontenot is a great GM and can build out the rest of the roster.   The hardest piece to get is the elite QB - and he has a chance to do it now with his first draft on what may be his highest pick he gets in his tenure as a GM - in a year where there is a potential elite guy there at #4.

The 2021 Falcons aren't going to a Superbowl

The 2022 Falcons aren't going to a Superbowl

 

Take the quarterback if you believe in him, Terry

It's the best move you can make for the long-term success of the Falcons franchise and your career as a GM

Do it

pull the trigger.

 

 

Show me an elite NFL QB in the draft... I bet you can't convince me any of them are. 

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51 minutes ago, Jesus said:

I'll go out on a limb and say the defensive talent in this draft is as undervalued as the offensive talent is overvalued.

I wasn’t clear, I meant at the #4 pick or very top of draft. Such as an elite DT, DE, pass rusher or shut down CB.

But I agree there are a lot of good defenders in the draft 

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I suppose the question would be, what qbs in this draft do you consider "elite?" 

elite
noun [ C ]
 
US 
 
 /ɪˈlit/
 
 
those people or organizations that are considered the best or most powerful compared to others of a similar type
 
Will Fields, Wilson, and Lance be of this caliber of elite compared to other elite qbs in the NFL? If you think yes, then so be it. I don't think they will all pan out, let alone reach "elite" status
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52 minutes ago, wnyfalconfan said:

Remember when Blake Bortles was hyped as a franchise QB after he lit it up throwing at his pro day

The only kind of QB I would consider taking top 5 is a highly intelligent, pure old school pocket passer with a strong and consistent college career, high level of work ethic, leadership and maturity. Like a Peyton Manning or Matt Ryan when they were coming out of college.

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8 minutes ago, nomak said:

Show me an elite NFL QB in the draft... I bet you can't convince me any of them are. 

i can convince you - but it might take about 1,000 days before you see the error of your judgment.

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:shrug:  If it's Trevor Lawrence or Trey Lance ,, Both are worth the #4 ,, And if they are going to get a QB it should be Lance.. Cause TL would cost us half our draft..  Wait a minute..  I just noticed they both have the same initials ...  Hey,, must be a sign that the best QBs initials have to be TL,, Let me see,, what other QBs initials are TL ?  🤣

  Now those of you that are about to say something about Lawrence NO WAY going #4.. I'm not stupid. I know that so don't get your panties in a wad ...  It's a joke son ! It's a joke !

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