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53 minutes ago, xSICKxWITHxITx said:

I was on the Ryan train also not Dorsey. I would be for drafting a QB now also if Ryan was closer to being done. He will play good football minimum 2-3 years. He could easily play more than 5 years though. He may not be Brady, but its not about the championships. Ryan is actually a better QB he just hasn't every had the defense. 

I don't think it's has to be 100% about championships in the past. I think over the next 2 to 3 years Ryan will be a 12 to 18 type QB. Looking at high level QB play like we saw in 2020, that's good enough to give you a chance, especially if other areas of the team are good to exceptional. 

I just don't think that's good enough output from your QB when he is making top 3,4,5 money.  I need more heavy lifting and a real long-term plan, not a hope. People here want to reward Matt for being the best QB in franchise history. Before Ryan, we remembered Bartkowski. Everyone that watched him longterm says he was good. However, he is not mentioned with the greats of his era. Now Ryan won an MVP, I don't think that gets him in the conversation 20 years from now. 

 

Look at where the money ranks and what he has given you. Is he all of a sudden going to give you more? 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/quarterback/

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2 hours ago, isproab said:

I don't think it's has to be 100% about championships in the past. I think over the next 2 to 3 years Ryan will be a 12 to 18 type QB. Looking at high level QB play like we saw in 2020, that's good enough to give you a chance, especially if other areas of the team are good to exceptional. 

I just don't think that's good enough output from your QB when he is making top 3,4,5 money.  I need more heavy lifting and a real long-term plan, not a hope. People here want to reward Matt for being the best QB in franchise history. Before Ryan, we remembered Bartkowski. Everyone that watched him longterm says he was good. However, he is not mentioned with the greats of his era. Now Ryan won an MVP, I don't think that gets him in the conversation 20 years from now. 

 

Look at where the money ranks and what he has given you. Is he all of a sudden going to give you more? 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/quarterback/

Huh? QB's salarys are going up big time and Ryan is way better than 12-18 and will be in 2 years. No QB we draft will be better than ran in 2-3 years. Maybe after that. So are we rebuilding, retooling or trying to win now? Big difference when we start talking those things.

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3 hours ago, g-dawg said:

Hunch?

My hunch is this is a 3yr rebuild and TF is targeting a team built in his image - the way he wants it for 2023.   If my hunch is right,  QB is in play at #4.

Well, I guess I'm completely opposite of what your thinking.. And sure,, that's OK,, we are all different .  May our Coach make the right philosophy , I'd say he'd agree with part of how your thinking and some of the things I think we should do. ,, Here's to hoping what Smith & Co. gets it right.. That is what we really need.  The one thing I clearly don't agree with , is that it will take 3 years to rebuild.. I'll go so far to say,, I think we'll be three times better this coming season..  Simply because we now have the right leaders , HC , OC, DC. 

Now all we need is a great draft..  and I have a huge feeling that Smith and Co. will give us the best Draft we've had in the last 10 seasons.  I truly believe this.. And I sure hope I'm right in what I'm seeing take place. I am a believer in all the changes that has taken place. AB has always been successful  in everything he has done,, And this story is still in the making.. I'm a believer in the changes that have been made.. It might take two years to get where we all want to go.. But I would not be shocked if we make the playoffs in 21, But for sure in 22.

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3 hours ago, xSICKxWITHxITx said:

So if its is a 3 year rebuild why take a QB now? Waste 3 of his years and good contract? Is it not smarter to build a team then get the QB?

No.  You get elite potential QBs when they present themselves

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3 hours ago, celtiksage said:

Hmmm... I'll take MR's last 3 years (QBR 92-109 and 4500-5000 yards passing), and a highly improved OL and defense and expect much better results.

You're right in that he isn't Tom Brady, but no one in this draft is or will be.

I think people see the yards and say "he is great".  If that is the case, why did we have 4 wins.  Answer is because its more nuanced than just passing yards.  Sure other parts of the team has to do their job, but if it were just about passing yards, Goff and Stafford would still be with their 2020 teams.

Look at QBR for 2020 and tell me where Ryan is.  Lets qualify it with guys that were mostly starters.  12 games or more and say 3500 passing yards.  You will see Ran was 17th.  Again, only 12 teams make the playoffs.  If we have a guy that is middle of the pack, I'm not deciding to stick with him for the next 3 years when I can grab a QB of the future right now.  Knowing he will be ready to go in 2022 or 2023.

I think the best move, acquire a first round QB this year.  Second best move, acquire a potential starter at QB in rounds 2 or 3 this year.  Least favorite move, acquire a backup QB this year and wait unitl 2021 or later to draft a top-tier QB.

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1 hour ago, isproab said:

I think people see the yards and say "he is great".  If that is the case, why did we have 4 wins.  Answer is because its more nuanced than just passing yards.  Sure other parts of the team has to do their job, but if it were just about passing yards, Goff and Stafford would still be with their 2020 teams.

Look at QBR for 2020 and tell me where Ryan is.  Lets qualify it with guys that were mostly starters.  12 games or more and say 3500 passing yards.  You will see Ran was 17th.  Again, only 12 teams make the playoffs.  If we have a guy that is middle of the pack, I'm not deciding to stick with him for the next 3 years when I can grab a QB of the future right now.  Knowing he will be ready to go in 2022 or 2023.

I think the best move, acquire a first round QB this year.  Second best move, acquire a potential starter at QB in rounds 2 or 3 this year.  Least favorite move, acquire a backup QB this year and wait unitl 2021 or later to draft a top-tier QB.

Oh so Matt is to blame when the team sucks and he wins 4 games. When we when more and in the playoffs, let me guess its the team that carried him? Lol get out of here with your crap.

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1 hour ago, xSICKxWITHxITx said:

Why get rid of an Elite one now with a few years left when you say the team is not very good?

I'm not sure that I would say "elite" anymore w/ Matt - maybe he still can be but thought I saw some slippage and some INTs that he didn't make in the past - some 15yd out balls that he never hung that he was hanging.   The Chargers game bothered me a lot - to be specific on one case off the top of my head.      Matt's never had what you would call a strong arm but I would always classify it in the past as "strong enough" and he made up for some of his lack of arm strength w/ anticipation and timing - that is what made Matt a Top 10 QB for most of his career.   I don't believe Matt will hold up as well as Brady - there is only one Brady.   We saw Brees slipping the last few years

As to "why now?"

I would tell you that  Matt's contract is a killer - not just this year but the next several years - YES, we have to keep him this year because the hit is too huge but 2022 is an out year where the pain wouldn't be too bad.

Also, we all know even the best young QBs need a few seasons to really come into their own.   Marino was great from the get-go and Mahomes sat a year and then was great....exceptions to rule.   

So, if you see a player you deem to have ELITE qualities to be a very high-end QB - a QB that can be the reason you win the SuperBowl - then you make that move.  I know Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields are ELITE prospects and I anticipate them being ELITE NFL players.  I am more on the fence about Zach Wilson but persuadable one way or the other.

I have no illusions that the Falcons are going to be a stellar team and a quick turnaround for 2020 so the 2020 season doesn't matter to me.   While Fontenot and Smith want to have a good 2020, they know they won't be judged by it but will if things don't look like a turnaround in 2023.   In 2020, Going from 4-12 to 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 - while improvement - doesn't really do anything for the organization long-term.    I won't feel any better about the Falcons if they go 4-12 or 7-9 next year - it will be the same to me - another failure.    You saw w/ the Braves - they tore it down and built it back up.    

"yeah butttt......you cannot trade Evan Gattis"........"yeah buttttt......you cannot trade Shelby Miller"......"yeah butttt.....you cannot trade Josh Upton and Craig Kimbrel" - these were all things said when Braves made those moves.   I remember arguing w/ 92.9-the-Game's radio host John Chuckery about those moves and he said how stupid the Braves were for doing it.   A lot of those moves led to the nucleus of the Atlanta Braves teams that have now won back-to-back-to-back NL East Divisions and were on the verge of the World Series.

yeah but that is baseball....

I'm a good w/ drafting a QB at #4 if I like the QB at #4 - and if I don't, then by all means, don't take the one that's left - don't take a QB just to take one or just to say "we secured our future" - because if he ain't good, it doesn't matter.    If he's Josh Rosen or Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder - then it doesn't matter - you blew it.    However, if he is Josh Allen or Kyler Murray or Justin Herbert or better - congratulations, you made the right call - the QB has the 15+ year shelf-life - the QB doesn't have to start the first year.   The QB won't be selling insurance in 6 years like a RB or trending downhill at 31 like a WR or CB.   The QB has the longest shelf-life - so investing in one - even if you can get by w/o him for the first year - is more than justified.     That plus Matt's crazy salary and cap hit is a "net minus".     For the amount of money Matt is eating at the salary cap, he needs to wear a cape to work - he needs to be "the reason" instead of "good enough".     It is difficult enough for teams like Seattle and will be for KC to put enough talent around QBs paid at elite level -but at least if they are playing lights out you gotta chance.    

 

 

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2 hours ago, g-dawg said:

I'm not sure that I would say "elite" anymore w/ Matt - maybe he still can be but thought I saw some slippage and some INTs that he didn't make in the past - some 15yd out balls that he never hung that he was hanging.   The Chargers game bothered me a lot - to be specific on one case off the top of my head.      Matt's never had what you would call a strong arm but I would always classify it in the past as "strong enough" and he made up for some of his lack of arm strength w/ anticipation and timing - that is what made Matt a Top 10 QB for most of his career.   I don't believe Matt will hold up as well as Brady - there is only one Brady.   We saw Brees slipping the last few years

As to "why now?"

I would tell you that  Matt's contract is a killer - not just this year but the next several years - YES, we have to keep him this year because the hit is too huge but 2022 is an out year where the pain wouldn't be too bad.

Also, we all know even the best young QBs need a few seasons to really come into their own.   Marino was great from the get-go and Mahomes sat a year and then was great....exceptions to rule.   

So, if you see a player you deem to have ELITE qualities to be a very high-end QB - a QB that can be the reason you win the SuperBowl - then you make that move.  I know Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields are ELITE prospects and I anticipate them being ELITE NFL players.  I am more on the fence about Zach Wilson but persuadable one way or the other.

I have no illusions that the Falcons are going to be a stellar team and a quick turnaround for 2020 so the 2020 season doesn't matter to me.   While Fontenot and Smith want to have a good 2020, they know they won't be judged by it but will if things don't look like a turnaround in 2023.   In 2020, Going from 4-12 to 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 - while improvement - doesn't really do anything for the organization long-term.    I won't feel any better about the Falcons if they go 4-12 or 7-9 next year - it will be the same to me - another failure.    You saw w/ the Braves - they tore it down and built it back up.    

"yeah butttt......you cannot trade Evan Gattis"........"yeah buttttt......you cannot trade Shelby Miller"......"yeah butttt.....you cannot trade Josh Upton and Craig Kimbrel" - these were all things said when Braves made those moves.   I remember arguing w/ 92.9-the-Game's radio host John Chuckery about those moves and he said how stupid the Braves were for doing it.   A lot of those moves led to the nucleus of the Atlanta Braves teams that have now won back-to-back-to-back NL East Divisions and were on the verge of the World Series.

yeah but that is baseball....

I'm a good w/ drafting a QB at #4 if I like the QB at #4 - and if I don't, then by all means, don't take the one that's left - don't take a QB just to take one or just to say "we secured our future" - because if he ain't good, it doesn't matter.    If he's Josh Rosen or Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder - then it doesn't matter - you blew it.    However, if he is Josh Allen or Kyler Murray or Justin Herbert or better - congratulations, you made the right call - the QB has the 15+ year shelf-life - the QB doesn't have to start the first year.   The QB won't be selling insurance in 6 years like a RB or trending downhill at 31 like a WR or CB.   The QB has the longest shelf-life - so investing in one - even if you can get by w/o him for the first year - is more than justified.     That plus Matt's crazy salary and cap hit is a "net minus".     For the amount of money Matt is eating at the salary cap, he needs to wear a cape to work - he needs to be "the reason" instead of "good enough".     It is difficult enough for teams like Seattle and will be for KC to put enough talent around QBs paid at elite level -but at least if they are playing lights out you gotta chance.    

 

 

Brees is 42, not 35. That is a  7 year difference.....Brees falling off has nothing to do with Ryan. He's almost a decade younger.

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5 hours ago, isproab said:

I think people see the yards and say "he is great".  If that is the case, why did we have 4 wins.  Answer is because its more nuanced than just passing yards.  Sure other parts of the team has to do their job, but if it were just about passing yards, Goff and Stafford would still be with their 2020 teams.

Look at QBR for 2020 and tell me where Ryan is.  Lets qualify it with guys that were mostly starters.  12 games or more and say 3500 passing yards.  You will see Ran was 17th.  Again, only 12 teams make the playoffs.  If we have a guy that is middle of the pack, I'm not deciding to stick with him for the next 3 years when I can grab a QB of the future right now.  Knowing he will be ready to go in 2022 or 2023.

I think the best move, acquire a first round QB this year.  Second best move, acquire a potential starter at QB in rounds 2 or 3 this year.  Least favorite move, acquire a backup QB this year and wait unitl 2021 or later to draft a top-tier QB.

no. i see an offense that was top 5 in passing yards, but was imbalanced and without a rushing attack to close out games in the fourth quarter. now, you add in what should be a completely re-vamped running game, and those 4500 yards, complimented with ~2000 rushing yards (which is only 31 more per game), and a vastly improved defense, and you're looking at a whole bunch of W's on the board come December. 

but you keep writing multiple-paragraph posts to take 1000 words just to say you really want a new qb.

and i've drafted a qb in every single mock i've done so don't bother with that nonsense.

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1 hour ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

no. i see an offense that was top 5 in passing yards, but was imbalanced and without a rushing attack to close out games in the fourth quarter. now, you add in what should be a completely re-vamped running game, and those 4500 yards, complimented with ~2000 rushing yards (which is only 31 more per game), and a vastly improved defense, and you're looking at a whole bunch of W's on the board come December. 

but you keep writing multiple-paragraph posts to take 1000 words just to say you really want a new qb.

and i've drafted a qb in every single mock i've done so don't bother with that nonsense.

I don't by that all our fortunes turn in 1 draft. 1 draft doesn't make this D much improved. A good RB can be a shot in the arm, but he needs blocking too. Smith got it done in Tennessee, but it's not just plug in a key piece from a successful team and it replicates. 

I hope it's something like that because a lot of the folks here seem to think that 2021 = 10+ wins, playoffs and Matt Ryan  returns to 2016 form. 

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7 hours ago, xSICKxWITHxITx said:

Oh so Matt is to blame when the team sucks and he wins 4 games. When we when more and in the playoffs, let me guess its the team that carried him? Lol get out of here with your crap.

Points to where I said that. 2016 Matt was money and deserved the MVP. He isn't at that level right now. Still good, but I think we should start to turn the page. 

He has to be a difference maker. He wasn't one in 2020 or 2019.

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On 2/25/2021 at 8:51 PM, isproab said:

I do this quite often. Let's just wait until draft day. There is no right or no wrong decision right now. What we have is a situation that will play out in a particular fashion. The Falcons have to make a choice and hope it's the right move. 

We have seen young drafted QBs turn out to be the right move. Rodgers was the right move from Green Bay, despite his draft day fall. Mahomes was right for KC despite him being really kind of a dark horse QB out of a spread system. Lamar Jackson was right for Baltimore despite some wanting to see him do something other than play QB.  Josh Allen was right for Buffalo despite his conference and thin college resume.

If the Falcons bet on Ryan and go another route at 4 and Ryan is 3 years of the same as the last two. They will be kicking themselves and nobody on this forum will ever claim to have endorsed or called for the move. Just like you don't hear from the "I want Glenn Dorsey crew".  For the record, I wanted Ryan then, but I think it's time to move on now. He is not Tom Brady. 0 championships, don't think he is going to be a guy people want at 43.

you're either blind or just don't pay attention, because there have been, and always will be, several of us who were in the 'Glenn Dorsey' crowd who openly admit we were, and not only say how wrong we were, we make jokes about it. Don't know how you miss it....

maybe it's just that that doesn't fit your agenda, so nevermind

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16 hours ago, g-dawg said:

I'm not sure that I would say "elite" anymore w/ Matt - maybe he still can be but thought I saw some slippage and some INTs that he didn't make in the past - some 15yd out balls that he never hung that he was hanging.   The Chargers game bothered me a lot - to be specific on one case off the top of my head.      Matt's never had what you would call a strong arm but I would always classify it in the past as "strong enough" and he made up for some of his lack of arm strength w/ anticipation and timing - that is what made Matt a Top 10 QB for most of his career.   I don't believe Matt will hold up as well as Brady - there is only one Brady.   We saw Brees slipping the last few years

As to "why now?"

I would tell you that  Matt's contract is a killer - not just this year but the next several years - YES, we have to keep him this year because the hit is too huge but 2022 is an out year where the pain wouldn't be too bad.

Also, we all know even the best young QBs need a few seasons to really come into their own.   Marino was great from the get-go and Mahomes sat a year and then was great....exceptions to rule.   

So, if you see a player you deem to have ELITE qualities to be a very high-end QB - a QB that can be the reason you win the SuperBowl - then you make that move.  I know Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields are ELITE prospects and I anticipate them being ELITE NFL players.  I am more on the fence about Zach Wilson but persuadable one way or the other.

I have no illusions that the Falcons are going to be a stellar team and a quick turnaround for 2020 so the 2020 season doesn't matter to me.   While Fontenot and Smith want to have a good 2020, they know they won't be judged by it but will if things don't look like a turnaround in 2023.   In 2020, Going from 4-12 to 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 - while improvement - doesn't really do anything for the organization long-term.    I won't feel any better about the Falcons if they go 4-12 or 7-9 next year - it will be the same to me - another failure.    You saw w/ the Braves - they tore it down and built it back up.    

"yeah butttt......you cannot trade Evan Gattis"........"yeah buttttt......you cannot trade Shelby Miller"......"yeah butttt.....you cannot trade Josh Upton and Craig Kimbrel" - these were all things said when Braves made those moves.   I remember arguing w/ 92.9-the-Game's radio host John Chuckery about those moves and he said how stupid the Braves were for doing it.   A lot of those moves led to the nucleus of the Atlanta Braves teams that have now won back-to-back-to-back NL East Divisions and were on the verge of the World Series.

yeah but that is baseball....

I'm a good w/ drafting a QB at #4 if I like the QB at #4 - and if I don't, then by all means, don't take the one that's left - don't take a QB just to take one or just to say "we secured our future" - because if he ain't good, it doesn't matter.    If he's Josh Rosen or Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder - then it doesn't matter - you blew it.    However, if he is Josh Allen or Kyler Murray or Justin Herbert or better - congratulations, you made the right call - the QB has the 15+ year shelf-life - the QB doesn't have to start the first year.   The QB won't be selling insurance in 6 years like a RB or trending downhill at 31 like a WR or CB.   The QB has the longest shelf-life - so investing in one - even if you can get by w/o him for the first year - is more than justified.     That plus Matt's crazy salary and cap hit is a "net minus".     For the amount of money Matt is eating at the salary cap, he needs to wear a cape to work - he needs to be "the reason" instead of "good enough".     It is difficult enough for teams like Seattle and will be for KC to put enough talent around QBs paid at elite level -but at least if they are playing lights out you gotta chance.    

 

 

I hear you on Matt. He has always been somewhat underrated. I agree hes never had the strongest arm or most athletic, but good enough for sure. Did he look bad at times last year? Sure I think so, but so did the whole team. We looked defeated to many times and I saw a QB in Ryan trying to hard to make things happen and in fact he was making mistakes he normally wouldnt. You have to admit Dirk was and is terrible. I think with the new coaches alone we are a 7-10 win team if we ran it back. Are we a SB team with the new coaches? No, but I believe we are a lot closer than people think. 

We will either go 2 ways. Build in FA and draft well to win it over the next few years or we will start the rebuild. If we draft a QB at 4 and he is great, I am ok with that. That also tells me when are rebuilding and Matt is gone and Julio should be to. No need in keeping aging players with big contracts at that point.

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19 hours ago, isproab said:

I think people see the yards and say "he is great".  If that is the case, why did we have 4 wins.  Answer is because its more nuanced than just passing yards.  Sure other parts of the team has to do their job, but if it were just about passing yards, Goff and Stafford would still be with their 2020 teams.

Look at QBR for 2020 and tell me where Ryan is.  Lets qualify it with guys that were mostly starters.  12 games or more and say 3500 passing yards.  You will see Ran was 17th.  Again, only 12 teams make the playoffs.  If we have a guy that is middle of the pack, I'm not deciding to stick with him for the next 3 years when I can grab a QB of the future right now.  Knowing he will be ready to go in 2022 or 2023.

I think the best move, acquire a first round QB this year.  Second best move, acquire a potential starter at QB in rounds 2 or 3 this year.  Least favorite move, acquire a backup QB this year and wait unitl 2021 or later to draft a top-tier QB.

Matt Ryan is 57-70 over the last 8 seasons including our Super Bowl run, playoffs not included. These are the kinds of results people want to cling to with a quarterback who is older and more expensive with no other quarterbacks on the roster? It's absolutely insane not to take a QB at 4 if we think he's a franchise guy. If you're being paid $40M a year, you're supposed to be the solution and he clearly is not with that record. 

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9 minutes ago, papachaz said:

you're either blind or just don't pay attention, because there have been, and always will be, several of us who were in the 'Glenn Dorsey' crowd who openly admit we were, and not only say how wrong we were, we make jokes about it. Don't know how you miss it....

maybe it's just that that doesn't fit your agenda, so nevermind

Herr Doktor was pro Dorsey.  Very much so.  But, MR2 proved my know nothing self to be incorrect.

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12 hours ago, isproab said:

Points to where I said that. 2016 Matt was money and deserved the MVP. He isn't at that level right now. Still good, but I think we should start to turn the page. 

He has to be a difference maker. He wasn't one in 2020 or 2019.

No I think he's still that QB easy with the right scheme and team around him. I see a player who tried to hard to help a defeated team. Better scheme, run game and defense we will be right back to where we were. Is he starting to decline a tad? Its hard to say, but honestly I don't think we will see the decline for at least 2 more years. Even then he's always been a great anticipation thrower, so It shouldn't be a huge issue until he falls off a cliff.

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1 minute ago, Herr Doktor said:

Herr Doktor was pro Dorsey.  Very much so.  But, MR2 proved my know nothing self to be incorrect.

yeah I'm not gonna say I was driving the Dorsey/Brohm train, but I took my turn shoveling coal....

 

and seems there was a bridge out ahead, glad we didn't actually go that way :tiphat:

 

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Just now, xSICKxWITHxITx said:

No I think he's still that QB easy with the right scheme and team around him. I see a player who tried to hard to help a defeated team. Better scheme, run game and defense we will be right back to where we were. Is he starting to decline a tad? Its hard to say, but honestly I don't think we will see the decline for at least 2 more years. Even then he's always been a great anticipation thrower, so It shouldn't be a huge issue until he falls off a cliff.

Many of his INTs this year were trying to force a play that wasn't there to move the team.  I don't see the regression others do, I see a frustrated individual who probably internalized a great deal of frustration with the team.

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