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20 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

People will be so in their feelings when we draft a QB at 4th overall this year.  Cause Joel is 100% on point in the above tweet and he understands cap dynamics as well as most NFL GM’s

There are definitely people who get apoplectic at any mention of the Falcons possibly drafting a QB. They aren’t pragmatic or rational. Typically they try to attack the credibility of the announcer rather than the argument itself. 

A reasonable fan will look at both the pros and cons of drafting a QB. They’ll see the inherent value as well as all the mitigating circumstance. They will also comprehend that there are other options/positions that are just as (if not more so) viable as drafting QB. 

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29 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

There are definitely people who get apoplectic at any mention of the Falcons possibly drafting a QB. They aren’t pragmatic or rational. Typically they try to attack the credibility of the announcer rather than the argument itself. 

A reasonable fan will look at both the pros and cons of drafting a QB. They’ll see the inherent value as well as all the mitigating circumstance. They will also comprehend that there are other options/positions that are just as (if not more so) viable as drafting QB. 

Post Of The Year!  

I couldn’t agree more.  The bolded is a sad tactic that is making TATF a less than ideal place to get your Falcons fill.  It’s literally the same 8 posters doing it to every thread they disagree with.  Its classic hive-think  and contributes little to nothing

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3 hours ago, Alomar said:

Multiple sources said JaMarcus Russell and Johnny Manzell were going to be a franchise QBs...don't think either of them worked out for those franchises that drafted them...

Those sources can be, and have been, wrong. I'm not trying to predict the future, I just hope that whoever we draft is the right choice...no matter what position they play.

The top 10 is littered with guys who didn't pan out or became mediocre at best. 

Does not mean we cannot get it right but the odds are against it.

Considering the rookie QB would not start this coming year anyway, I'd rather take my chances with more picks and a second, third or later round QB.

Are we sure Newman or Mond wouldn't be as good or better than Lance or Wilson after a few years of seasoning? And if Wilson/Lance is better are, will they be a Sewell or other first rounder worth of talent better? That's a tough one. 

Who would you rather have, Goff/Wentz or Prescott/Carr? Are you significantly better with any of those guys under center than another?

I'm on the statistical side of having as many shots in the draft as possible but I can appreciate wanting the next guy. It stinks we are in the top 5 again but we are miles ahead of where we were last time.

That may be the most underrated thing about Ryan is given the state of the franchise, we were the wrong pick away from Jacksonville, Cleveland levels of obscurity for years. How many, if any QBs taken between 2008 and 2018 could have saved us? We lucked out and got it right. Let's hope we can do it again, whenever a QB is taken.

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20 hours ago, Faithful Falcon said:

Look bro, you guys got it twisted. Nobody thinks a rookies will come in, and automatically take us to a Super Bowl. Matt is making a killing, and right now, it's killing us. If someone is willing to make a trade for him and Julio, we would be stupid not to do it. It takes a lot more than bad play calling to make you finish 4-12, and to have 3 straight losing seasons.

Ryan is not really making a killing. You really can't look at "Franchise QBs" and their salaries the same way as any other position on the field (with the exception of "elite pass rusher" and "lock down corner"). Fran. QBs are always going to get paid on market value and not how good they are as QBs (with the exception of Brady and any "team first" QB) until Owners/GMs start to influence the market by refusing to pay market. And that will probably never happen because it would blow the doors open on collusion lawsuits a million times worse than the Kap situation started doing. 

I partially disagree with you on bad play calling and/or coaching, but i want to see how this season and next plays out before i make my mind up on that.   

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3 minutes ago, Run 'n' Shoot said:

The top 10 is littered with guys who didn't pan out or became mediocre at best. 

Does not mean we cannot get it right but the odds are against it.

Considering the rookie QB would not start this coming year anyway, I'd rather take my chances with more picks and a second, third or later round QB.

Are we sure Newman or Mond wouldn't be as good or better than Lance or Wilson after a few years of seasoning? And if Wilson/Lance is better are, will they be a Sewell or other first rounder worth of talent better? That's a tough one. 

Who would you rather have, Goff/Wentz or Prescott/Carr? Are you significantly better with any of those guys under center than another?

I'm on the statistical side of having as many shots in the draft as possible but I can appreciate wanting the next guy. It stinks we are in the top 5 again but we are miles ahead of where we were last time.

That may be the most underrated thing about Ryan is given the state of the franchise, we were the wrong pick away from Jacksonville, Cleveland levels of obscurity for years. How many, if any QBs taken between 2008 and 2018 could have saved us? We lucked out and got it right. Let's hope we can do it again, whenever a QB is taken.

What Ryan & Coach Smith did in 2008 to change the course of an otherwise lost and downtrodden franchise is nothing short of spectacular.

I also agree about wanting more picks, not fewer.  Trading up makes life more difficult for the organization unless it’s offset by subsequent trade downs of equal value

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10 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Post Of The Year!  

I couldn’t agree more.  The bolded is a sad tactic that is making TATF a less than ideal place to get your Falcons fill.  It’s literally the same 8 posters doing it to every thread they disagree with.  It’s TATF hive mentality and it’s ruining the forum.

You keep saying this, but everybody who has been on this forum long enough knows that nobody agrees on anything so I'm not sure where this hive mentality bs comes from? Probably from the fact that you trounced your own credibility and now you want to blame others.

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22 minutes ago, Joey563 said:

Ryan is not really making a killing. You really can't look at "Franchise QBs" and their salaries the same way as any other position on the field (with the exception of "elite pass rusher" and "lock down corner"). Fran. QBs are always going to get paid on market value and not how good they are as QBs (with the exception of Brady and any "team first" QB) until Owners/GMs start to influence the market by refusing to pay market. And that will probably never happen because it would blow the doors open on collusion lawsuits a million times worse than the Kap situation started doing. 

I partially disagree with you on bad play calling and/or coaching, but i want to see how this season and next plays out before i make my mind up on that.   

I don’t really disagree, but Ryan occupying 20-23% of our cap the next 3 years is tough when you see this chart from OTC

Percentage of Salary Cap taken up by Super Bowl winning QBs (and the remaining playoff QB cap%)

xxydaJKcV1BpeZxhLKv_FcAODUp35QF4ShU4UMC5_AA.jpg.webp

Year

Name

Cap %

1994

Young

13.10%

1995

Aikman

6.70%

1996

Favre

10.20%

1997

Elway

5.20%

1998

Elway

5.00%

1999

Warner

1.30%

2000

Dilfer

1.60%

2001

Brady

0.47%

2002

Johnson

9.60%

2003

Brady

4.40%

2004

Brady

6.30%

2005

Roethlisberger

4.90%

2006

P. Manning

10.40%

2007

E. Manning

9.20%

2008

Roethlisberger

6.80%

2009

Brees

8.30%

2011

E. Manning

11.70%

2012

Flacco

6.60%

2013

Wilson

0.56%

2014

Brady

10.64%

2015

P. Manning

11.66%

2016

Brady

8.62%

2017

Foles

0.91%

2018

Brady               

12.21%

2019

Mahomes

2.4%

2020

Brady

12.2%

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Just now, FalconsIn2012 said:

I don’t really disagree, but Ryan occupying 23% of our cap the next 3 years is tough when you see this chart from OTC

Percentage of Salary Cap taken up by Super Bowl winning QBs (and the remaining playoff QB cap%)

xxydaJKcV1BpeZxhLKv_FcAODUp35QF4ShU4UMC5_AA.jpg.webp

Year

Name

Cap %

1994

Young

13.10%

1995

Aikman

6.70%

1996

Favre

10.20%

1997

Elway

5.20%

1998

Elway

5.00%

1999

Warner

1.30%

2000

Dilfer

1.60%

2001

Brady

0.47%

2002

Johnson

9.60%

2003

Brady

4.40%

2004

Brady

6.30%

2005

Roethlisberger

4.90%

2006

P. Manning

10.40%

2007

E. Manning

9.20%

2008

Roethlisberger

6.80%

2009

Brees

8.30%

2011

E. Manning

11.70%

2012

Flacco

6.60%

2013

Wilson

0.56%

2014

Brady

10.64%

2015

P. Manning

11.66%

2016

Brady

8.62%

2017

Foles

0.91%

2018

Brady

12.21%

2019

Mahomes

2.4%

2020

Brady

12.2%

I do agree with the concern over cap hit for all "The Franchise Guy" on all teams. I'm completely on board with Aaron Rodgers and other folks who have pitched/proposed the idea of every team having one "Franchise Player" whos contract doesn't count against the salary cap at all. 

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10 minutes ago, Joey563 said:

Ryan is not really making a killing. You really can't look at "Franchise QBs" and their salaries the same way as any other position on the field (with the exception of "elite pass rusher" and "lock down corner"). Fran. QBs are always going to get paid on market value and not how good they are as QBs (with the exception of Brady and any "team first" QB) until Owners/GMs start to influence the market by refusing to pay market. And that will probably never happen because it would blow the doors open on collusion lawsuits a million times worse than the Kap situation started doing. 

I partially disagree with you on bad play calling and/or coaching, but i want to see how this season and next plays out before i make my mind up on that.   

That's just a way of dictating the pay scale. Not knock on Ryan. It's just another version of the American Way. I've said in the past that Ryan has earned his money, but every QB shouldn't be paid like that. Most that are have one thing in common, and it's not their playing capabilities.

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12 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

You keep saying this, but everybody who has been on this forum long enough knows that nobody agrees on anything so I'm not sure where this hive mentality bs comes from? Probably from the fact that you trounced your own credibility and now you want to blame others.

Group think is unhealthy.  Be better

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11 minutes ago, Joey563 said:

I do agree with the concern over cap hit for all "The Franchise Guy" on all teams. I'm completely on board with Aaron Rodgers and other folks who have pitched/proposed the idea of every team having one "Franchise Player" whos contract doesn't count against the salary cap at all. 

I’ve always been in favor of the QB not counting against the cap

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12 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I’ve always been in favor of the QB not counting against the cap

So a young QB drafted at #4 comes in and either plays immediately or sits on the bench for at least 2 years. Either way, that doesn’t change that there’s still a QB on the roster who counts against the cap for another 2 years (we’re NOT shedding Ryan’s contract before 2023).

We’re now left with only 3 years (4 years plus 5th year option) of this young QB’s rookie contract. So much for the “QB not counting against the cap” except for only 3 years.

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36 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

You keep saying this, but everybody who has been on this forum long enough knows that nobody agrees on anything so I'm not sure where this hive mentality bs comes from? Probably from the fact that you trounced your own credibility and now you want to blame others.

This is exactly it but he will never ever admit to it.  But he's a habitual liar and generally shady individual so not surprising.  Everyone sees it but him which is the funny part.

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40 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I don’t really disagree, but Ryan occupying 20-23% of our cap the next 3 years is tough when you see this chart from OTC

Percentage of Salary Cap taken up by Super Bowl winning QBs (and the remaining playoff QB cap%)

xxydaJKcV1BpeZxhLKv_FcAODUp35QF4ShU4UMC5_AA.jpg.webp

Year

Name

Cap %

1994

Young

13.10%

1995

Aikman

6.70%

1996

Favre

10.20%

1997

Elway

5.20%

1998

Elway

5.00%

1999

Warner

1.30%

2000

Dilfer

1.60%

2001

Brady

0.47%

2002

Johnson

9.60%

2003

Brady

4.40%

2004

Brady

6.30%

2005

Roethlisberger

4.90%

2006

P. Manning

10.40%

2007

E. Manning

9.20%

2008

Roethlisberger

6.80%

2009

Brees

8.30%

2011

E. Manning

11.70%

2012

Flacco

6.60%

2013

Wilson

0.56%

2014

Brady

10.64%

2015

P. Manning

11.66%

2016

Brady

8.62%

2017

Foles

0.91%

2018

Brady               

12.21%

2019

Mahomes

2.4%

2020

Brady

12.2%

Why is 2010 missing? Rodgers I believe

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5 minutes ago, CTann said:

So a young QB drafted at #4 comes in and either plays immediately or sits on the bench for at least 2 years. Either way, that doesn’t change that there’s still a QB on the roster who counts against the cap for another 2 years (we’re NOT shedding Ryan’s contract before 2023).

We’re now left with only 3 years (4 years plus 5th year option) of this young QB’s rookie contract. So much for the “QB not counting against the cap” except for only 3 years.

Good retort

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37 minutes ago, Joey563 said:

I do agree with the concern over cap hit for all "The Franchise Guy" on all teams. I'm completely on board with Aaron Rodgers and other folks who have pitched/proposed the idea of every team having one "Franchise Player" whos contract doesn't count against the salary cap at all. 

I agree with thAt

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6 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

Ha ha this is awesome

The best part of his "hive mind" comments is he wants sooooooooooooo soooooooooooooo badly to be part of the hive.  It's painfully and pathetically obvious he wants TATF to think highly of him and he so wants to be one of the TATF elite.  If only his actions and words backed the desire.  He made himself an outsider looking in but blames others for his own **** behavior instead of just fixing said **** behavior.

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4 minutes ago, athell said:

The best part of his "hive mind" comments is he wants sooooooooooooo soooooooooooooo badly to be part of the hive.  It's painfully and pathetically obvious he wants TATF to think highly of him and he so wants to be one of the TATF elite.  If only his actions and words backed the desire.  He made himself an outsider looking in but blames others for his own **** behavior instead of just fixing said **** behavior.

There can only be a few elite DFFD

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50 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Post Of The Year!  

I couldn’t agree more.  The bolded is a sad tactic that is making TATF a less than ideal place to get your Falcons fill.  It’s literally the same 8 posters doing it to every thread they disagree with.  Its Hive think mentality and contributes little

Thank you.

You’re correct in your analysis that it’s pretty much the same people. It’s definitely a hive mentality with those  “never QB” people. Any franchise that doesn’t at least consider selecting a QB (with a current 35 year old QB and a top 5 pick) deserves to continue to lose.

That being said; every pundit, coach, scout, and GM has completed whiffed on a selection before. NFL GMs with more hits than misses are rare. So to completely write off an evaluation because “x” pundit said that “y” player was going to be good is just 
 

Hypothetically if our new GM missed on out 1st round pick but nailed 2-4; I’d be fine with it. We should be judging more on our hits than misses, and the percentages by which they hit. 

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1 minute ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Thank you.

You’re correct in your analysis that it’s pretty much the same people. It’s definitely a hive mentality with those  “never QB” people. Any franchise that doesn’t at least consider selecting a QB (with a current 35 year old QB and a top 5 pick) deserves to continue to lose.

That being said; every pundit, coach, scout, and GM has completed whiffed on a selection before. NFL GMs with more hits than misses are rare. So to completely write off an evaluation because “x” pundit said that “y” player was going to be good is just 
 

Hypothetically if our new GM missed on out 1st round pick but nailed 2-4; I’d be fine with it. We should be judging more on our hits than misses, and the percentages by which they hit. 

I've never once said 'never qb'. I am solidly in the camp of if you're taking a qb at 4 you better be trading ryan and trading him this year. You don't sit a top 5 pick on the bench. You just dont. If TF thinks that Fields or Wilson is the man I'm totally ok with it....as long as they trade Ryan and get some ammo to actually build a team with because a rookie QB with this same defense and running game will fare no better than ryan or anybody else.

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1 minute ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Thank you.

You’re correct in your analysis that it’s pretty much the same people. It’s definitely a hive mentality with those  “never QB” people. Any franchise that doesn’t at least consider selecting a QB (with a current 35 year old QB and a top 5 pick) deserves to continue to lose.

That being said; every pundit, coach, scout, and GM has completed whiffed on a selection before. NFL GMs with more hits than misses are rare. So to completely write off an evaluation because “x” pundit said that “y” player was going to be good is just 
 

Hypothetically if our new GM missed on out 1st round pick but nailed 2-4; I’d be fine with it. We should be judging more on our hits than misses, and the percentages by which they hit. 

Agreed...plus, if they draft a QB at 4th and it doesn’t pan out, wouldn’t you rather miss when Ryan is still on the team?  
 

Ryan is a hedge on the bet/gamble if they draft QB early.  Seems like a smart way to try and transition

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2 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Agreed...plus, if they draft a QB at 4th and it doesn’t pan out, wouldn’t you rather miss when Ryan is still on the team?  
 

Ryan is a hedge on the bet/gamble if they draft QB early.  Seems like a smart way to try and transition

So you're going to sit 40 million dollars on the bench long enough to find out if your rook doesn't pan out which could take a few years? How does that make any sense at all? You're putting your rookie 40 million dollars behind in a team around him.

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1 hour ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I’ve always been in favor of the QB not counting against the cap

I was actually thinking about this the other day. It’s good in theory but would be a b*tch in practice. Especially if other positions want that same benefit. One possible solution would be that the “franchise guy” could be any position, and that every team can only have one. 

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