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Which DL do you think better defensive coaching and scheming could help break out?


gazoo
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6 minutes ago, takeitdown said:

I would hope Davidson and Comisky, but Comisky has been a lot more linear than I hoped and Davidson I have no idea what happened.
These guys seem like they have talent, but we'll see.

Could be Mean, Mariner, Senat.  We have a lot of OK guys.  Maybe 1 or 2 will become good.

That’s my best guess is a couple of them may surface as good players. I’m still not expecting double digit sacks from these players, but if Cominsky and / or Means or Davidson can get 5 or 6 it can help with our pressure packages. Senat was often knifing into the backfield his rookie season as well. If he’s not cut, it’s possible he can at least get some pressures if used in those packages although I see him more as a run defender possibly getting some tackles for losses being his game.

I’m very interested to see how this shakes out with Pees. He knows how to use these guys. If they suck under him they suck.

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5 hours ago, Herr Doktor said:

What a waste.  This guy seems to have the tools.  I honestly thought this would be a cannot pick by TD.

I determined he is dumb as a brick. That is what held him back, he couldn’t get out of his head. DQ said something his last camp about “if he could, just get out of his head and let his natural ability take over he could do in games what he does in camp” that is paraphrased but close. He was making some highly athletic plays in camp but once the stadium lights came on he was paralyzed in fear.

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On 2/14/2021 at 12:57 PM, gazoo said:

You are ignoring the very essence of the thread. Is it the player or was it poor coaching and scheming that help these players back? 

We have seen bad players move to other teams and flourish before in a new scheme. We have seen great players move to other teams for big money and disappoint. 
 

So I am open on both/either possibility with the players I mentioned above. If Pees can get nothing out of Senat and Cominsky then that answers the question. But it is too early to conclude we’ve seen the best out of any of our young players. Pees knows how to scheme to utilize player strengths. We’ve not had that hear in quite some time.

Name one falcon player who left and "flourished"...Sidbury? Nope. Beirman? Nope. Trufant? Nope. Beasley? Nope. Name a FA we signed on the D and flourished outside of John Abraham? I mean Poole was a good nickle corner. But you really gonna hang your hat on 2 guys over the span of Smith and DQ tenures?

You're the only one ignoring something here. The players named in your post and mine will not see benefit because they have already capped. They aren't secrets we stashed away. They were below average and road the bench. Senat cant sniff the field and Comisky didnt get more snaps until Takk was sent packing. Thats right he couldnt beat out a dude who literally hated the team he was on. 

Its great you are optimistic and congrats on that. But a guy that has barely seen the field in his whole career, isnt going to magically going to become a stud. Its just like your threads 2 year ago talking about how great a steal Davison was because "the saints hated to lose him". Dude is just another guy and we tried to tell you that but you wouldnt listen.

Talent is what we need on defense. Its not here currently.

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9 hours ago, runshoot said:

Name one falcon player who left and "flourished"...Sidbury?

Did Sidbury leave here and play for Pees?  You seem utterly incapable of comprehending the post.

the problem I have with posters like you is you believe if a DL doesn’t get 10 sacks and make pro bowl he sucks. I happen to understand we need these back of the bench guys to step up and make plays for us. Even getting 4, 5 or 6 sacks out of one or two of them is huge for us. I don’t need them to be all pros to recognize their value to our defense. 
 

that said, of course we need stud playmakers in additional the the bench guys producing. So it’s not an either or, it’s both

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15 hours ago, OrthoPTSD said:

Off top of head, Wes Schweitzer probably getting paid this off season

Every year low end to medium range FA vets switch teams+ schemes and play much better (or worse) . In fact, the Saints were very good at finding these FA signings where bench players did little on other teams, came to Saints and played significant roles.

Pees plays his defensive linemen wherever and however he feels he can get the best out of them. He uses a multiple front and his DL can line up in a host of fronts in gaps or straight up on OL. He is creative. I’m excited about seeing how he uses the talent of the guys we have on the roster already and think he can get more out of them than DQ did. 
 

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16 hours ago, runshoot said:

Name one falcon player who left and "flourished"...Sidbury? Nope. Beirman? Nope. Trufant? Nope. Beasley? Nope. Name a FA we signed on the D and flourished outside of John Abraham? I mean Poole was a good nickle corner. But you really gonna hang your hat on 2 guys over the span of Smith and DQ tenures?

You're the only one ignoring something here. The players named in your post and mine will not see benefit because they have already capped. They aren't secrets we stashed away. They were below average and road the bench. Senat cant sniff the field and Comisky didnt get more snaps until Takk was sent packing. Thats right he couldnt beat out a dude who literally hated the team he was on. 

Its great you are optimistic and congrats on that. But a guy that has barely seen the field in his whole career, isnt going to magically going to become a stud. Its just like your threads 2 year ago talking about how great a steal Davison was because "the saints hated to lose him". Dude is just another guy and we tried to tell you that but you wouldnt listen.

Talent is what we need on defense. Its not here currently.

Brian Poole has flourish with jets. 
 

Since you named Biermann, I’ll counter with Brent grimes. 
 

To your point, I hear you. But I disagree with you on Cominsky, I think he’s coming along fine. Team knew when they drafted him he would take a few years. 

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30 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Brian Poole has flourish with jets. 
 

Since you named Biermann, I’ll counter with Brent grimes. 
 

To your point, I hear you. But I disagree with you on Cominsky, I think he’s coming along fine. Team knew when they drafted him he would take a few years. 

Cominsky was raw, but athletic.  He was always a developmental sort of player.

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On 2/13/2021 at 11:38 PM, gazoo said:

I have maintained for years we have more talent on the roster than the coaching staffs have been getting out of them. Here are some of the players that may surface as much better than we realize:

Deadrin Senat: Senat was looking good his rookie season, breaking into the backfield quite a bit and disrupting plays from the interior. It is a mystery to us all what happened to him. It could be he regressed his second year, if something else I could see Pees using him a lot in his lineups, even at the nose in 3 man fronts. He had a little bit of a NT frame with bigger, thick trunk. If he’s not cut for some reason we are unaware of, he could be highly productive as a rotation player in Pees defensive alignments.

Marlon Davidson: Had many issues with COVID killing training camp and injury he is a wildcard. I really liked him coming out of college and he has an upper body frame and hand violence similar to Rod Coleman. If he can stay healthy and get coached up by Pees he could still be a really good player. 

Steven Means: if we resign Means, he was actually flashing some ability last year. We will resign him if Pees likes what he sees on tape.

John Cominsky:  This is the player with the highest potential to break out in Pees defense IMO. I am not sure what happened to h8m last year but he was flashing big the year prior.  Pees knows how to take this kind of raw talent and place it in a position to shine.

2 or 3 of these players should be able to be in backfield at times to help with our pressure packages. We still need outside help, but I think Pees has some untapped talent already here to work with.


 

Senat, Cominsky, Sheffield.... all seemed to regress last season.    I believe our players were not buying into Quinn's defensive philosophies and schemes.   I know many of us fans felt the same way.   I would describe Quinn's coaching style and schemes as being.... soft.  Our players were punching bags, not the punchers.   Ulbrich took over, and we blitzed more.

Its strange that some of our better defenders, like Crawford, Claiborne, Wreh-Wilson, Dennard, Means..... all were street FAs who came from other teams.   They weren't good enough for thier original teams to keep, but became some of our best defensive players.

I look forward to seeing what Pees can do with our defenders.  I think -all- our D linemen and DBs stand to be better, because Pees will use them better.   Good enough to win with?  Who knows.....

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3 minutes ago, egoprime II said:

Senat, Cominsky, Sheffield.... all seemed to regress last season.    I believe our players were not buying into Quinn's defensive philosophies and schemes.   I know many of us fans felt the same way.   I would describe Quinn's coaching style and schemes as being.... soft.  Our players were punching bags, not the punchers.   Ulbrich took over, and we blitzed more.

Its strange that some of our better defenders, like Crawford, Claiborne, Wreh-Wilson, Dennard, Means..... all were street FAs who came from other teams.   They weren't good enough for thier original teams to keep, but became some of our best defensive players.

I look forward to seeing what Pees can do with our defenders.  I think -all- our D linemen and DBs stand to be better, because Pees will use them better.   Good enough to win with?  Who knows.....

Solid take.

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I’m realizing why the thread seems controversial to some, yet reasonable to others.  
 

Many who understand this game place a high value on having quality depth contributors. Especially as the DL goes it is extremely important to have depth DL who can make plays in that role.  A player like Senat, Cominsky, Means or Davidson don’t have to be All Pros with double digit sacks to play vital roles in our defense.

I agree we need to add a top talent double digit level pass rusher to the defensive line and don’t believe any of those players I listed are capable of that. It’s not an either or proposition, it is  BOTH. Double digit sacks from your star, a depth DL providing 4,5, or 6 sacks and some TFLs while keeping starters fresh, this is how you get a stud defense. 

So if you watch a lot of Super Hero cartoons and you are of opinion only Super Hero’s have value, and depth players mean nothing, we are looking at this with a different lens.

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1 hour ago, egoprime II said:

Senat, Cominsky, Sheffield.... all seemed to regress last season.    I believe our players were not buying into Quinn's defensive philosophies and schemes.   I know many of us fans felt the same way.   I would describe Quinn's coaching style and schemes as being.... soft.  Our players were punching bags, not the punchers.   Ulbrich took over, and we blitzed more.

Its strange that some of our better defenders, like Crawford, Claiborne, Wreh-Wilson, Dennard, Means..... all were street FAs who came from other teams.   They weren't good enough for thier original teams to keep, but became some of our best defensive players.

I look forward to seeing what Pees can do with our defenders.  I think -all- our D linemen and DBs stand to be better, because Pees will use them better.   Good enough to win with?  Who knows.....

BOOM!

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4 minutes ago, gazoo said:

I’m realizing why the thread seems controversial to some, yet reasonable to others.  
 

Many who understand this game place a high value on having quality depth contributors. Especially as the DL goes it is extremely important to have depth DL who can make plays in that role.  A player like Senat, Cominsky, Means or Davidson don’t have to be All Pros with double digit sacks to play vital roles in our defense.

I agree we need to add a top talent all pro level pass rusher to the defensive line and don’t believe any of those players I listed are capable of that. It’s not an either or proposition, it is  BOTH.

So if you watch a lot of Super Hero cartoons and you are of opinion only Super Hero’s have value, and depth players mean nothing, we are looking at this with a different lens.

After the 98 Superbowl, I knew we'd struggle going back due in large part to losing solid backup players.  It's hard to replace a large loss of quality quickly.

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10 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Which DL do you think better defensive coaching and scheming could help break out?

  1. Fowler
  2. Cominsky
  3. Davidson

If Pees can get Fowler back on track with double digit sacks (he played run well last year) it will be huge for this defenses ability to rise up in the ranks.

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5 minutes ago, Herr Doktor said:

After the 98 Superbowl, I knew we'd struggle going back due in large part to losing solid backup players.  It's hard to replace a large loss of quality quickly.

Man, these people who undervalue depth players, especially along the DL are hard to reason with.  
 

Those of us who know this game know many of the unsung heroes on a Super Bowl roster are the DL depth players who didn’t give up huge plays, made some plays, a handful of sacks and TFL while starters where taking a breather. 

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On 2/14/2021 at 12:38 AM, mattyicefalcon said:

Concerned with Keanu Neal.

We lack depth at that position and its playing a pivotal role in pass happy league.

Falcons lack depth, and starters, everywhere.   Which is why our coaches need to stop relying on vets so much to be backups.  Bring in some UDFA's who will be around awhile.   Coach 'em up.

Having -some- vets is good, but we have been having way too many.

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On 2/14/2021 at 11:19 AM, runshoot said:

I'm pretty sure senat and comisky and the players who are "board favorites" ala kerry meir and sunshine are just that. Board favorites who were not as good and wont be as good as people thought they were. 

Just like when DQ came on board and we had 53% turn over, we will see similar with this new coaching staff as they bring in guys they know. 

I'll bet senat isnt on the team and this is comisky last chance. Like, do we ready need another Beirman who almost gets pressure?

A lot of that turnover then was on the offensive line.   Of the 13 or 14 O linemen we had from the previous year, we only ended up keeping three:  Matthews, Schroeder and James Stone.   That's way too much turnover for one season.

We have more talent no than we did then.  We stand to have 24 open roster spots.   There's not much left to get rid of.

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