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Secondary may not be as troublesome as it seemed. TB just won with a secondary ranked towards the bottom.  The first question is what scheme will be ran. Last i know he was a 3-4 guy that ran a t

I know we’ve got needs in our secondary but IMHO this has been the biggest problem on this team.  We’ve got Grady and a bunch of scrubs.     We don’t have the money to grab anyone to help him i

Do you really need one though? Years ago that may have been the case but I wouldn't think it's a true necessity these days. If so, one can definitely be found via the draft and FA

44 minutes ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

Yeah, you're both right here.  He's been difficult to figure out for me  for all of these reasons.  Plus he's playing DB on a Bama team too.  But there is lots to like.  I love his size/strength & the way he uses it to his advantage battling wideouts.  But the scouting reports all have their precautions on his COD/Twitch & he has allowed people to get behind him a number of occasions.  KOG likes him a lot & I think he has more eyes on him for a longer period than any of us too, so that is encouraging.  For me however, I don't like him too early due to the reasons stated.  But if we drop back down to the 12-20 range, I would feel much more comfortable taking PS.  

Most all of the scouting reports are some conglomeration of the following:

Strengths:

  • Excellent height
  • Superb length
  • Good weight, strength
  • Straight-line speed
  • Size to match up against big receivers
  • Instinctive
  • Plays the ball well in air
  • Good ball skills
  • Soft hands to intercept passes
  • Threat to take the ball away
  • Good tackler
  • Physical
  • Does a good job of preventing separation

     
Weaknesses:
  • Outside corner only
  • Lacks twitch
  • Has change of directions problems
  • Straight line athletically
  • Can be late getting his head around to track ball in flight
  • Not a good fit in off man coverage


     
  • Summary: Patrick Surtain II had no issues living up to the large expectations he brought to Alabama. Being the son of a Pro Bowl cornerback who played for over a decade in the NFL with the Dolphins and Chiefs, Surtain saw the field as a freshman. Alabama consistently features a loaded secondary, so it can be hard for young players to see the field. Surtain, however, was the exception, as the star recruit got a lot of playing time for a freshman under Nick Saban. Surtain played well in 2018, recording 28 tackles with an interception, seven passes defended and one forced fumble. He looked like he was just scratching the surface of his potential. As a sophomore in 2019, Surtain had 42 tackles with two interceptions, three forced fumbles and eight passes broken up in 2019.

    Surtain played well in 2020 and was a steady cover corner for Alabama. He was the team's No. 1 corner and did a good job of limiting top receivers on the opposition. Against Mississippi State, he had four tackles, two breakups, and a short pick-six in garbage time. He turned in a solid game against Georgia. Surtain made some good breakups against Tennessee, but he was also beaten for a touchdown from about 30 yards out. Taking on Florida, Surtain collected two passes broken up and three tackles, but he was also burned by Trevon Grimes on a 50-yard touchdown. Surtain played well in the college football playoff to help Alabama beat Notre Dame and Ohio State en route to winning another National Championship. Surtain totaled 38 tackles, 11 passes broken up and a pick-six in 2020.

    There is a lot to like about Surtain for the NFL, as he looks like he could be a quality starter quickly as a pro, especially if he is drafted into a system that plays a lot of press man. Surtain has excellent size, with height and length that make it very difficult to get passes around him. Along with height and length, Surtain has developed strength to fight off receivers and maintain good positioning for contested passes. Surtain's height and length also helps him to have nice recoverability to narrow the space and close the window for completing passes.

     
    As a corner, Surtain has good feel, instincts, and advanced technique. He plays the ball really well, showing impressive ball skills for a big corner. When Surtain is in close coverage, it can be a dangerous proposition to throw his direction. as he is very capable of getting his hands on the ball to snatch it away or deflect it away from the receiver.

    The big question with all large cornerbacks is how well they run. and Surtain has the speed necessary to play in the NFL. He is fast in the straight line yet is able to turn and run with receivers. While Surtain is not a blazer, he has enough quickness to run down the sideline and keep receivers from burning him over the top. He won't be one of the fastest corners in the NFL, but his speed won't make him a liability.

    There are some limitations for Surtain in the NFL, and his pro defensive coordinator would be wise to not match him up against smaller speed receivers. Surtain is not a twitchy corner and has some change-of-direction problems. Thus, he is better suited to line up on the outside against big receivers and not a fit to move inside to the slot. Being an outside-only corner is not the end of the world, but it cuts down on Surtain's versatility for his pro defense. His lack of twitch and his change-of-direction issues are common with big corners, and that makes him a better fit for playing press-man corner. He is not a good fit to play off-man coverage against NFL receivers.

    After a little time adjusting to the NFL, Surtain should be off and running as a starter. He has the potential to be a good pro.
     
    Player Comparison: Carlton Davis. There are a lot of similarities between Davis and Surtain. Davis (6-1, 206) is almost identical in size and has some of the same strengths and limitations as Surtain. Both of them are big corners with instincts, ball skills, and a physical style of play. They also can have issues with twitchy speed receivers.

There's also this -- he might not be the type of corner Pees is looking for.  Pees seems more scheme-flexible than Quinn by a mile, so hopefully he's one of those "get me football players and I'll get them to play football" type guys.

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2 hours ago, Francis York Morgan said:

That's true too. I think he'll look worlds different this year, both because it's a new staff (and I think they'll look at where he excels and try to play to those strengths) and being healthy.

I think it depends entirely on what Pees wants to do. He doesn't seem overly attached to a specific coverage. But I think it's more likely Quinn brings him to Dallas.

I think a lot of the speed concerns are completely overblown. Twitter in particular gets into an echo chamber about what they've seen from 2019 games, and I frankly don't think a lot of the guys who knock Surtain know what they're looking at. Don't get me wrong, he's not a perfect prospect. But **** close. He closes well, he can turn and run when he has to, and people just get stuck on in-breaking routes when they're an awful metric for evaluating CBs since they require CBs to commit so hard and turn/run immediately (they're often man beaters, crazy risky in zone).

Also, Surtain was a track star in high school. Ran 10.7-10.9 100m. He's going to run close to 4.4 and people are going to act like that makes him a different player somehow. Nah. Just noise.

Yeah the things I have read said 4.5 or possibly higher. So if he runs a 4.4 that would be good. 

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2 hours ago, JDaveG said:

Unless he runs a 4.6 or 4.7, he'll be plenty fast enough.  He might not be able to man up bump and run on super fast WRs, but he will be able to use his instincts, football intelligence and good angles to compensate for that.

Most corners don't run a 4.3.

Oh I know that, I am just saying a lot are starting to say hes a 4.5 guy or higher and may get beat over the top by the faster guys. More corners run the 4.4 and below than you think. If he is 4.5 or better I don't have to many concerns.

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5 hours ago, ya_boi_j said:

Secondary may not be as troublesome as it seemed. TB just won with a secondary ranked towards the bottom. 

The first question is what scheme will be ran. Last i know he was a 3-4 guy that ran a ton of nickel. Runs a ton of stunts. If that's the case, that may benefit who's already on the roster, even Fowler. Foye would benefit as well in his scheme. The biggest issue would be players staying healthy

We also have a good many fringe guys who generate decent pressure from the 5 hole. If anything, I wouldn't mind focusing on a true nt to rotate with marlon.

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1 hour ago, xSICKxWITHxITx said:

Oh I know that, I am just saying a lot are starting to say hes a 4.5 guy or higher and may get beat over the top by the faster guys. More corners run the 4.4 and below than you think. If he is 4.5 or better I don't have to many concerns.

You can’t coach speed. That much is always true. 

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Davion Nixon

Summary: It took some developmental time, but eventually Nixon became a force for Iowa and continued the program's tradition of good defensive line prospects for the NFL. The Kenosha, Wisconsin product started out his career in the junior college ranks before landing with the Hawkeyes. In 2019 as a rotational backup, Nixon made the most of his limited opportunities, notching three sacks and 29 tackles. He became a full-time starter in 2020, producing an excellent 2020 season despite having fewer games to impress. The junior totaled 45 tackles, 5.5 sacks, one forced fumble and an interception returned 71 yards for a touchdown on the year.

The ability that stands out the most and gets NFL evaluators excited about is how dangerous Nixon is in the pass rush. He is a quick defender at the point of attack with the ability to fire his gap to get penetration upfield. Behind his natural pad level, Nixon aggressively fights through guards and makes it difficult for them to sustain blocks. He does a nice job of using his hands and feet at the same time to get off blocks. That combined with his leverage, makes him difficult to stand up as he just keeps churning up field.

For an interior pass rusher, Nixon is dangerous with special quickness and athleticism. He closes on the quarterback in a hurry and shows good vision, instincts, and awareness to adjust to a moving signal-caller. With natural and functional strength, Nixon can push through blocks and can close in an instant on the quarterback. For the NFL, he could stand to expand his variety in his pass-rushing moves to get after the quarterback but Nixon showed some variety in moves run 2020.

I just dont see ANY talk about other DL in glowing terms like this guy. Includes Edge. Tape checks out. Trade back into 15 range and infuse some serious DL talent. Heck I'm all about double dip


 

 
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11 hours ago, GleasonForever! said:

There’s nothing to talk about. It’s putrid. How TD was only able to find one stud that’s worth a crap is beyond me. 
 

D line is the weakest link on this team. Grady gets hurt and it needs a breather then it looks ugly out there. We have the worst D line in our Division. 

Lotta truth spoken by this man here!  I, like everyone else, realize we have other needs but let’s face one fact....in order to beat the Brady’s and Rogers if NFC....you gotta hit em hard and often.  Our disruption begins and ends w #97.  He’s a stud, prbly my favorite falcon these days but just imagine how it would be to have another source of violence and retribution after the QB.  This is one area where you can get a cpl of real dogs and the “sum can even be greater than the parts”.  We gotta get Grady some help!!  He’s too great to waist his best years trying to overcome a poor supporting cast.  Then as someone else mentioned, maybe we could survive a year w/o the best secondary. Heck we’ve gone many years already. Not saying we don’t need help there just prioritizing. See what pees can do w our young guys back there. 

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11 hours ago, JDaveG said:

Keep in mind if we do move toward a more 3-4 base, it is often easier to get the OLB type edge guys than the true 4-3 DE guys.  If we're multiple, we need both, but since Pees likes to blitz to create pressure, it makes it less of a necessity to go after those "you have to get there with the front 4" types.  

Don't be surprised if we don't take secondary high -- maybe even corner then safety in the first couple of rounds if the right players fall.  I'm not saying we won't take a true edge guy.  Just that I think they'll value versatility over a true 4-3 fire breathing DE.

So true. The Ravens are notorious for finding OLB type edge guys like Za’darius Smith and Parnell McPhee in the later rounds (4&5th).

Even better we signed former Ravens scout Dwuane Jones.

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24 minutes ago, GhostOfBukowski said:

If we're able to trade back from #4, into the teens, a player worth considering is Azeez Ojulari.

While he's not a true DE, he'd be perfect as an edge rusher, and he's put enough on tape to show that he's naturally gifted at bending the edge.

Based on projections, he may not last into Day 2.

 

 

 

 

Definitely won’t last til the 2nd ... and if he does.. he’ll be a steal..

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