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The Value of The WR Position


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8 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

We've had arguably the best WR in the league over the last decade. No Lombardi.

Sheer nonsense. Julio made what an Eagles fan friend referred to as a Championship Catch in that game. A fluke reception to extend a drive by the other team doesn't take that away from him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSirjCbbP1c

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5 minutes ago, jidady said:

Sheer nonsense. Julio made what an Eagles fan friend referred to as a Championship Catch in that game. A fluke reception to extend a drive by the other team doesn't take that away from him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSirjCbbP1c

They don’t give out Lombardies for championship catches bro. 18-30 in the last three years. 18-30 in the three years leading up to that game. How is that even possible with such a valuable WR?

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3 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

They don’t give out Lombardies for championship catches bro.

That's EXACTLY what they do.

First Google result for Julio Jones Super Bowl: "Falcons wide receiver Julio Jones made one of the most spectacular catches we've seen in recent Super Bowl history late in the fourth quarter."

 

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18 minutes ago, Atlantafan21 said:

I stated it in my other post, but Wilson wouldn’t be the player he is today. He was shielded early on by the LOB and one of the best run games in the league. Brees needed Payton to really hit his stride. We know what Brees was before the Payton union, and he was nowhere near as good as the New Orleans Brees. Rodgers I think is the only one that potentially stays relatively the same, albeit not quite at the same level as we’ve come to know, but even then he sat as an understudy for Favre for a number of years. Ryan probably would be solid, but also not at the level he’s been on the Falcons. Most of the best QBs have gotten to where they are because of landing in ideal situations. 
 

Rather than looking at the best, I’ll switch to some QBs that haven’t shaken out as expected. Rosen got into a terrible situation in Arizona, which was arguably the worst roster that year including having a placeholder HC. He might never even get a legit chance to start in the league. Darnold has had nothing to work with in New York and has had Gase as his HC his entire career. It’s split on whether or not one thinks he is still fixable. Trubisky has had a really good defense, but really only one good WR his career so far in addition to a mostly inefficient run game and bad o-line. I don’t think Trubisky would ever be a particularly good QB, but he could certainly be more competent with a better offensive mind than Nagy. Trubisky and A-Rob actually also help demonstrate my point on good WRs not necessarily needing a good QB. The only recent bust I don’t think would have changed given the situation is Haskins, but that’s because Haskins himself is the issue in terms of how he conducts himself. 

But a list of failed QBs wasn't the point I was making. The subject was WRs being next in line after QBs. I find that impossible to believe. It shows where stats a truly flawed, by and large. 

I'll always stand behind my original post. A top flight QB is what matters, not elite WRs. You need capable ones who run solid routes, understand adjustments, and have reliable hands. No team needs a guy like Julio or Hopkins to be successful. They absolutely need a top notch QB. 

 

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So WR is probably the smallest need on this entire roster.  It speaks volumes that the only coach who survived our fire sale was the WR coach cause his guys looked great.  We had 3 guys in the top 41 players in recieving yards last year.  Even with all the injuries Gage/Julio/Ridley battled through they did that.  We have 3 guys that are legit upper level starting WRs and the yards and TDs per target on our young guys and back-ups are impressive as well.  

That being said Jamar Chase might be the best player in this draft if he's there at 4 you have to consider it.  If we trade down and land between 7-15 and he's there you have to pretty much do it and consider Devonta Smith if he slides.  If we trade our pick to Washington who desperately needs a QB and Waddle is still there you do it.  WR isn't a need but with the elite talent in this draft if we get a Ridley situation where we are blessed with an elite talent being under-drafted we may be forced to pull the trigger anyway.  It will depend on how the board lands WR isn't a need but talent is so a BPA decision might be made to supplement our biggest strength

 

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12 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

We've had arguably the best WR in the league over the last decade. No Lombardi. 18-30 in the last three years. 

 

15 hours ago, Francis York Morgan said:

Julio clear cut top 5 WR in the NFL and arguably #1

Ridley a WR1 on half the teams in the NFL if we're being conservative

Gage developing well and appears to be just as capable as Sanu here who was a good #2 in his own right

Not opposed to a WR/TE if the value is right this draft (esp TE), like, Eskridge or Brevin Jordan Rd 3 would be great. Just disagree with framing it as a need

 

11 hours ago, Clark Kent™ said:

I disagree with the value of a WR being that important. 

Scotty Miller and Antonio Brown were both drafted in the 6th round 

Demarcus Robinson was a 4th round pick

I see no need to spend an early pick on a WR. If you want to take a guy in a mid-late round then sure that's fine. Maybe a dude falls or is someone you are high on, but there's zero need to spend an early pick on another WR. And I feel the same for a TE. There is enough mouths to feed at both spots (I still like Graham a lot as a receiving threat). 

 

9 hours ago, Herr Doktor said:

Colleges have placed more emphasis on the passing game, so far more quality Wide-outs are being produced.  There is almost no need to draft one very high.  As many of the others have pointed out, there are weapons in the lower rounds.  Gage was a fifth rounder, right?

Falcons have had 4 winning.... 5 losing.... one break-even season since Julio came.   This isn't a failure on Julio's part, its on Dimitroff.   BTW has Dimitroff been hired, yet........?

I've always felt that, if trading all those picks for a non-QB player is such a Good Idea, why not do it every couple of years?  

Don't look now, but....I have seen suggestions that a WR might be our best choice at 4.

Here's whats wild about the Julio trade.....a few picks after Julio?  The Texans drafted JJ Watt.  The Falcons could have traded less, maybe.... and ended up with a HOF defensive destroyer.   I like Julio, but defensive players like Watt are harder to find.

Edited by egoprime II
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3 hours ago, thanat0s said:

But a list of failed QBs wasn't the point I was making. The subject was WRs being next in line after QBs. I find that impossible to believe. It shows where stats a truly flawed, by and large. 

I'll always stand behind my original post. A top flight QB is what matters, not elite WRs. You need capable ones who run solid routes, understand adjustments, and have reliable hands. No team needs a guy like Julio or Hopkins to be successful. They absolutely need a top notch QB. 

 

Tom Brady helps prove your point.

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7 hours ago, Snozberies17 said:

Gage is developing really nicely and you could see the trust Ryan had in him as the season went on but still think we're missing that Sanu roll in the offense. Ryan lost both of his safety blankets — third down guys in Hooper and Sanu. So I would love to bring in another sure handed - big bodied WR who shows out on third downs. I had high hopes for Treadwell early in the year and thought he did a nice job to close out the year but just not reliable enough.

Treadwell does have the advantage of not being real expensive....

I'd like to see what Smith does with him.

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4 hours ago, takeitdown said:

I think WR is very important, but it usually seems that it's more important to have good WR 2,3, 4 TE RB than one elite player.

You need every single one of your guys to be able to beat man coverage and catch the ball.  And you need 5 of those guys lined up nearly every play.

Being even better than that is great...but you need at least that so you can scheme tons of mismatches and put systems in place to get people 1 on 1.  That only works if they can beat that 1 on 1.

Zone beaters are a different scenario, but the same holds...you need quality throughout (and hopefully 1 top guy) more than you need 2 aces.

In 2016 Ryan threw TD's to 13 different players.  Five of those were TE's, one or two were RBs.   My impression of Kyle was, he is a coach who can do more with less.   Many coaches can't.

Smith is said to have the schemes.... so we will see.

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7 hours ago, falcons007 said:

PFF is not saying WR is high value position in terms of scheme or a football sense. They are just saying, you save lot of money by drafting a WR in first round. Same goes for QB, Edge guys. Highest paid positions have more $ value.

That makes a lot more sense than what the OP made it sound like.

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3 hours ago, egoprime II said:

 

Here's whats wild about the Julio trade.....a few picks after Julio?  The Texans drafted JJ Watt.  The Falcons could have traded less, maybe.... and ended up with a HOF defensive destroyer.   I like Julio, but defensive players like Watt are harder to find.

I mean, we could have, but Watt's a 3-4 player. By running the 4-3, we'd undercut many of his strengths. There's no guarantee he'd have the same success in our system.

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10 hours ago, falcons007 said:

PFF is not saying WR is high value position in terms of scheme or a football sense. They are just saying, you save lot of money by drafting a WR in first round. Same goes for QB, Edge guys. Highest paid positions have more $ value.

WAR is Wins Above Replacement, so it is justifying that quality of WR will account for more wins than other positions on average outside of QB.  RB has the lowest WAR last I saw because they are so plug and play.

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1 minute ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

He was schemed open for like 1300 yards a year. Didn't matter.

It's an average metric, it doesn't mean you can completely ignore the run game and defense and just get a bunch of WRs and QBs and call it a day.

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