From NFLN - Ryan and Julio Aint Going Anywhere This Year

[Jesus 26,645]

9 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

Splendid. How do we afford Matt for another five or six years? If we keep paying Matt at the top of the QB market, won't he be in the $42-45m p/yr. range in another couple of years?

How do we manage the cap and pay any of the players who will be needing and expecting their big contracts in two or three years and still be paying him a fair market contract? I haven't seen anybody explain how this is financially feasible.

They don't pay him that much. Brady isn't making anywhere near that and he's in his 10th super bowl.

[PokerSteve 28,022]

1 minute ago, Jesus said:

They don't pay him that much. Brady isn't making anywhere near that and he's in his 10th super bowl.

Yeah, but that's mainly because the NFL is just a hobby for Brady. 

[Jesus 26,645]

9 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

Yeah, but that's mainly because the NFL is just a hobby for Brady. 

His full time job is being Tom Brady.

[gazoo 21,366]

54 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

Splendid. How do we afford Matt for another five or six years? If we keep paying Matt at the top of the QB market, won't he be in the $42-45m p/yr. range in another couple of years?

How do we manage the cap and pay any of the players who will be needing and expecting their big contracts in two or three years and still be paying him a fair market contract? I haven't seen anybody explain how this is financially feasible.

I am not a cap guy but I know the Saints paid Brees right up to the end and stayed in the hunt each year. Green Bay still paying Rodgers and in hunt.  I doubt we could keep him and Julio though. Also, did Brees take less in his later years or did he keep getting more? How much are Bucs paying Brady?  The argument for me if RYAN is getting more than Brady and Brees in late years is he’s going to have to work with us like they did their teams. (If they did)

im not being argumentative at all here, I really do not know the answer to all these questions. I just know other teams make it happen, and therefore it can be done.

[papachaz 19,299]

8 hours ago, Cole World said:

 

nice post! thanks!

 

[irrevelantfalconsfan 281]

But yet 9-year-olds probably still will be expecting a trade.

[nevesmetro 58]

12 hours ago, KRUNKuno said:

Makes no sense to do that either.  AS and TF would be setting themselves up for failure by doing that.  
 

rabid fans waiting for Matt to mess up so they can boo and create a hostile environment for the team.  

media asking every day about the rookie’s progress, and when he’s going to take over.

Arthur Blank getting involved

its just bad for the locker room and puts Arthur Smith’s entire regime under unneeded, intense scrutiny.

 

In recent memory I don’t know of any top 5 QBs that have ever not played their rookie year.  Number 4 pick is not going to sit.  

Completely agree with this

If we take a QB at 4 then AS is telling Matt, the locker room, the world that he doesn’t have a scheme to win with Matt and from Matts point of view, he’s seeing that the 4^th pick isn’t being used to help him win a Superbowl, it's just to replace him. That’s not the start of a great HC/QB relationship and a sure locker room divider.

You don’t take a QB and then plan to win with Matt over the next couple of years. That’s just wasting the 4 pick. To sit a new QB to learn for a year then surely you're planning to go 5-11, not 11-5, or should I say 12-5. 17 games next year?????

If we take a QB then I’d look to take the hit with Matt and see if we can get him out of the door?

[falcndave 4,880]

I fully expect Ryan to start in 2021. I fully expect the Falcons to draft a QB at 4 if one of the top three guys is there. I fully expect TAFT to devolve into scene like this every time Ryan throws an incompletion. 

 

[PokerSteve 28,022]

13 hours ago, gazoo said:

I am not a cap guy but I know the Saints paid Brees right up to the end and stayed in the hunt each year. Green Bay still paying Rodgers and in hunt.  I doubt we could keep him and Julio though. Also, did Brees take less in his later years or did he keep getting more? How much are Bucs paying Brady?  The argument for me if RYAN is getting more than Brady and Brees in late years is he’s going to have to work with us like they did their teams. (If they did)

im not being argumentative at all here, I really do not know the answer to all these questions. I just know other teams make it happen, and therefore it can be done.

The Saints have managed Brees' cost by nailing a lot of their draft picks and FA signings. We'd have to do the same probably to keep paying Ryan and half-dozen of the core guys.

[Falconcheff 5,570]

21 hours ago, atljbo said:

To me this was never the issue..... The issue to me is if we are going to restructure  Matts contract... If we do he will be here for atleast the next 2 to 3 years (3 if we extend him to create more room) .

If we draft a rookie QB he will count around 6 million in 2021 against our cap and around 7.5 mil in 2022

If we keep Matt at basically 41 mil (no restructure or extension)  and a new QB at 6 mil.... That would be 47 mil spent at just the QB position

Gardner Minshew's cap hit is less than 1 Mil in 2021...

 

At every turn, Gardner "The Answer" Minshew... have I ever mentioned he's thrown 37 TD's to only 11 INT's in his career...or that he's got a 62.9% completion rate, while throwing for 240 yards per game...to Jax WR's?

[gazoo 21,366]

2 hours ago, PokerSteve said:

The Saints have managed Brees' cost by nailing a lot of their draft picks and FA signings. We'd have to do the same probably to keep paying Ryan and half-dozen of the core guys.

My opinion is virtually all coaching and scheming has severely been lacking with exception of Shanny in Ryan years. We did pretty good in his early years but still not Super Bowl level staff and scheming IMO.

Given this, I feel strongly the current coaching staff is going to get way more out of all our players including free agents left over from last year. 
 

I also think we have really good expertise and success experience in scouting departments, so I think we can achieve the goals you provided that would be needed to keep Ryan.

[PokerSteve 28,022]

43 minutes ago, gazoo said:

My opinion is virtually coaching and scheming has severely been lacking with exception of Shanny in Ryan years. We did pretty good in his early years but still not Super Bowl level staff and scheming IMO.

Given this, I feel strongly the current coaching staff is going to get way more out of all our players including free agents left over from last year. 
 

I also think we have really good expertise and success experience in scouting departments, so I think we can achieve the goals you provided that would be needed to keep Ryan.

I have utmost confidence in the new HC and FO brain trust. Whatever way they decide to go with the roster, I'm a believer. We are going to be seeing a lot more energized, exciting brand of football than we've been subjected to over the past few years. It's going to be like a Thanksgiving feast of a season after choking down three years of bologna sammiches.

[falcons007 24,772]

53 minutes ago, gazoo said:

My opinion is virtually coaching and scheming has severely been lacking with exception of Shanny in Ryan years. We did pretty good in his early years but still not Super Bowl level staff and scheming IMO.

Given this, I feel strongly the current coaching staff is going to get way more out of all our players including free agents left over from last year. 
 

I also think we have really good expertise and success experience in scouting departments, so I think we can achieve the goals you provided that would be needed to keep Ryan.

What took so long to hire an Offensive minded HC if the team was supposedly built around QB and WR.

[JDaveG 43,696]

Just now, falcons007 said:

What took so long to hire an Offensive minded HC if the team was supposedly built around QB and WR.

I don't worry so much about that, but the disarray was palpable on that side of the ball.  It was just always in flux.

I want a coach who can build a team.  In recent memory, with the exception of Belichick, the guys who seem best capable of that are offensive minded coaches who pay attention to the defense.  Shanahan, Reid, Payton -- all of them are offensive guys who insist on expending FA and draft capital on defense and hiring good coaches on that side of the ball and remaining schematically sound.  That won't always be the case, just as the current pass all the time frenzy will pass.  But it seems to be the case now.  Offensive minded coaches have better defenses than defensive minded coaches have offenses.  That wins.

Sometimes even when the offense isn't that good.  Looking at you Brian Billick.

[falcons007 24,772]

6 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

I don't worry so much about that, but the disarray was palpable on that side of the ball.  It was just always in flux.

I want a coach who can build a team.  In recent memory, with the exception of Belichick, the guys who seem best capable of that are offensive minded coaches who pay attention to the defense.  Shanahan, Reid, Payton -- all of them are offensive guys who insist on expending FA and draft capital on defense and hiring good coaches on that side of the ball and remaining schematically sound.  That won't always be the case, just as the current pass all the time frenzy will pass.  But it seems to be the case now.  Offensive minded coaches have better defenses than defensive minded coaches have offenses.  That wins.

Sometimes even when the offense isn't that good.  Looking at you Brian Billick.

Yeah I agree. Look at Pete Carol, he won the SB with LOB and Marshawn Lynch. After that it has been struggle. BIll Belichick is an exception.  

[JDaveG 43,696]

20 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

Yeah I agree. Look at Pete Carol, he won the SB with LOB and Marshawn Lynch. After that it has been struggle. BIll Belichick is an exception.  

I forgot about Carroll, but yeah, he's still a pretty good example.  Bevell had them humming, until "the call" and "the pick," and then it's been a hard road back.

[FalconFanSince1969 15,715]

3 hours ago, falcndave said:

I fully expect Ryan to start in 2021. I fully expect the Falcons to draft a QB at 4 if one of the top three guys is there. I fully expect TAFT to devolve into scene like this every time Ryan throws an incompletion. 

 

I fully expect us to pass on a QB simply because of what you just said. It complicates the situation times 1000. No new head coach is going to want to figure out how to navigate that mess.

[JDaveG 43,696]

2 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

I fully expect us to pass on a QB simply because of what you just said. It complicates the situation times 1000. No new head coach is going to want to figure out how to navigate that mess.

"I've always wanted to be the head coach of my own football team so I can make the decisions and do what's best for the franchise.  So now I finally -- at long last -- get to create a quarterback controversy and cap issues for my team!"

[falcons007 24,772]

7 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

"I've always wanted to be the head coach of my own football team so I can make the decisions and do what's best for the franchise.  So now I finally -- at long last -- get to create a quarterback controversy and cap issues for my team!"

AS does look like you know who.. May be he has that kamikaze coaching instinct. 

[falcndave 4,880]

1 hour ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

I fully expect us to pass on a QB simply because of what you just said. It complicates the situation times 1000. No new head coach is going to want to figure out how to navigate that mess.

I think that winning is job one. Ryan plus another franchise QB on the roster is a strong position. I don't think dealing with the politics associated with an embarrassment of riches is too much for the GM/HC to bear. I'm hoping they have a drawer full of big boy pants and are willing to strap them on. The Packers seem to have survived the dilemma … twice. 

[Ghosts of Glanville 3,523]

2 hours ago, falcndave said:

I think that winning is job one. Ryan plus another franchise QB on the roster is a strong position. I don't think dealing with the politics associated with an embarrassment of riches is too much for the GM/HC to bear. I'm hoping they have a drawer full of big boy pants and are willing to strap them on. The Packers seem to have survived the dilemma … twice. 

Having Jordan Love sitting behind Rodgers is nothing like the circus we’d have if Wilson or Fields sat behind Ryan.  Every incompletion would have the talking heads yelling “QB controversy” and it would eventually divide the team.   

It would be an uncomfortable situation for all involved.    And automatically crowning the new guy a franchise QB is a dangerous assumption    

The scenario you lay out sounds great in theory, but I’m afraid reality is much different, especially around here.  

[falcons007 24,772]

2 hours ago, falcndave said:

I think that winning is job one. Ryan plus another franchise QB on the roster is a strong position. I don't think dealing with the politics associated with an embarrassment of riches is too much for the GM/HC to bear. I'm hoping they have a drawer full of big boy pants and are willing to strap them on. The Packers seem to have survived the dilemma … twice. 

Favre and Rodgers isn’t the same . Favre was the one who was year to year from end of 2004. I didn’t hear Ryan or Rodgers talking about retirement.  I will let the Rodgers and Love situation play out. Now that Rodgers reportedly wants a new deal. 

[falcndave 4,880]

13 hours ago, Ghosts of Glanville said:

Having Jordan Love sitting behind Rodgers is nothing like the circus we’d have if Wilson or Fields sat behind Ryan.  Every incompletion would have the talking heads yelling “QB controversy” and it would eventually divide the team.   

It would be an uncomfortable situation for all involved.    And automatically crowning the new guy a franchise QB is a dangerous assumption    

The scenario you lay out sounds great in theory, but I’m afraid reality is much different, especially around here.  

My point: I don't give a darn about PR. Do what is right for the team to win a Super Bowl as soon as possible. 

I think Ryan is the man. I think anyone who doesn't recognize that is delusional. I also think now is the time to find the next guy. If you wait until you "need" a QB to try to find one, you turn into what the Jets, Dolphins, and Browns have been grinding through. It sets you back 3 or 4 years, then once you find the  guy it takes another 2 or 3 for them to get up the speed.

[falcndave 4,880]

12 hours ago, falcons007 said:

Favre and Rodgers isn’t the same . Favre was the one who was year to year from end of 2004. I didn’t hear Ryan or Rodgers talking about retirement.  I will let the Rodgers and Love situation play out. Now that Rodgers reportedly wants a new deal. 

See my response to Ghosts.

[Ghosts of Glanville 3,523]

1 hour ago, falcndave said:

My point: I don't give a darn about PR. Do what is right for the team to win a Super Bowl as soon as possible. 

I think Ryan is the man. I think anyone who doesn't recognize that is delusional. I also think now is the time to find the next guy. If you wait until you "need" a QB to try to find one, you turn into what the Jets, Dolphins, and Browns have been grinding through. It sets you back 3 or 4 years, then once you find the  guy it takes another 2 or 3 for them to get up the speed.

My opinion, FWIW:   If a QB is drafted at #4, he should start or take over early in year 1.  If we had Andy Dalton or Ryan Fitzpatrick as the incumbent QB, this would be easy.   But transitioning to a new long-term QB while the current one is still playing at a high level could be messy.  
 

it comes down to different schools of thought:   The Get-the-QB-first approach, which I respect but don’t prefer, and the Build-the-team-and-get-the-QB-later approach, which is the camp I fall into.  
 

Either can be right or wrong depending on how it’s managed, but I like the latter approach because the team can peak during the QBs rookie contract, or you can deal for a vet as a second option.   
 

I just feel that going QB at 4 means things stay the same, only in 2022 we watch a young QB get killed instead of Ryan