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Maybe the defense isn't as bad as it seems...


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5 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

I think problem with the defense is hot and cold streaks and giving 20 points in a quarter. They weren’t bad still can’t hold the fort when they need to stop an offense late in 4th quarter. I am excited to see What Pees can do with this unit.

After Quinn got canned, by far I think the bigger problem was Koetter. 

Edited by Vandy
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After Quinn got canned, by far I think the bigger problem was Koetter. 

Falcons ended season 14th in defensive DVOA last year. Which was remarkable considering those first 5 games when they were horrid. Ulbrich/Morris did a commendable job there.    https://www.foo

Im still trying to get over holding KC in check

3 minutes ago, ThemDarnFalconsBoy! said:

They started to find their own, although that zone was consistently bad.

I know there are times when a defense has to run the zone scheme, but why do our guys seem to be unaware of a guy who sits down right in front of them AND doesn't attack the opponent while the ball is in the air? It bugs me when they'll watch the player catch the ball and then try and tackle them?  They should always have an attacking mindset.

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Just now, Vandy said:

By far, I think the bigger problem was Koetter.

It goes back to DQ. If he wanted to continue KS system, he should have kept ML and Mike Daniels. I have said it before, you don’t hire DK to run WCO or what ever that was run. Heck I always said it’s unfair for Sark to run KS system. OC should run their own stuff. Either ways I am glad DQ is gone. 

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2 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

It goes back to DQ. If he wanted to continue KS system, he should have kept ML and Mike Daniels. I have said it before, you don’t hire DK to run WCO or what ever that was run. Heck I always said it’s unfair for Sark to run KS system. OC should run their own stuff. Either ways I am glad DQ is gone. 

Absolutely on Quinn. See where I edited above.

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2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

By far, I think the bigger problem was Koetter.

Well our defense isn’t peaches either. I want to see this defense actually stop an offense in 4th quarter to protect the lead. Their best games were against the Chiefs and Raiders. However , too many times you see teams marching down the field for win. The last Bucs game was a disaster. 

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10 minutes ago, Vandy said:

That’s because we were losing. From game 6 on defense did their part, it was the offense that wasn’t playing up to their potential.

Yep, you definitely need to look and think about more than what you just see on the surface. People choose not to.

Thats how you get fired or be like boy i didnt see that coming.

Also i hate the saying you are what  your record says you are.

Edited by red falcon
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3 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Absolutely on Quinn. See where I edited above.

Yeah but you are not changing offense in middle of the season. I hope AS sticks to his beliefs and processes instead of looking for a home run Coordinator. Ultimately the biggest failure for DQ was the defense itself under his reign. 

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23 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

Well our defense isn’t peaches either. I want to see this defense actually stop an offense in 4th quarter to protect the lead. Their best games were against the Chiefs and Raiders. However , too many times you see teams marching down the field for win. The last Bucs game was a disaster. 

Falcons ran into buzzsaw end of year against Bucs, who were hottest team in nfl and carried them all the way to super bowl.

I know this is data-mining a little, but still something to ponder...take those two bucs games out....which of course you can’t, those two games the D was beaten to a pulp in...but if you could, falcons end the year 8th in defensive DVOA. That’s crazy considering getting nothing in pass rush at edge and those awful 1st 5 games to start the season.

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11 minutes ago, Vandy said:

That’s because we were losing. From game 6 on defense did their part, it was the offense that wasn’t playing up to their potential.

Probably.  We just looked bad all around to me.  I don't really think we need a rebuild or anything though.  A lot of it was the coaching.

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Just now, falcons007 said:

Yeah but you are not changing offense in middle of the season. I hope AS sticks to his beliefs and processes instead of looking for a home run Coordinator. Ultimately the biggest failure for DQ was the defense itself under his reign. 

No argument from me, I vocally wanted Quinn gone in 2018. Which they (D) proved after he was canned. 
 

And I have no doubt offense can return to Top 5/6 with Koetter now replaced. 

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7 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

Well our defense isn’t peaches either. I want to see this defense actually stop an offense in 4th quarter to protect the lead. Their best games were against the Chiefs and Raiders. However , too many times you see teams marching down the field for win. The last Bucs game was a disaster. 

Goes with management also. The two top 15 players we chose to rush the passer are no longer on the roster and didnt seem to want to play football. 

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10 minutes ago, Mescalito said:

Probably.  We just looked bad all around to me.  I don't really think we need a rebuild or anything though.  A lot of it was the coaching.

D definitely needs more talent at corner, safety, and off the edge

My point was Morris/Ulbrich took that rag-tag group and had them playing much better after DQ was fired. Mucho better.

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4 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Falcons ran into buzzsaw end of year against Bucs, who were hottest team in nfl and carried them all the way to super bowl.

I know this is data-mining a little, but still something to ponder...take those two bucs games out....two games the D was beaten to a pulp in...and falcons end the year 8th in defensive DVOA. 

They improved but my biggest concern is giving up points in bunches. I think the win rate for most teams is 0.1 when the defense gives up 20 points in a quarter. I want to see consistency on both offense and defense playing as one team. 

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6 minutes ago, red falcon said:

Goes with management also. The two top 15 players we chose to rush the passer are no longer on the roster and didnt seem to want to play football. 

And a 3rd one, Fowler, was banged up and ended being a huge disappointment.

Morris/Ulbrich did a good job with the D considering.

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13 minutes ago, Da_Truth said:

I know there are times when a defense has to run the zone scheme, but why do our guys seem to be unaware of a guy who sits down right in front of them AND doesn't attack the opponent while the ball is in the air? It bugs me when they'll watch the player catch the ball and then try and tackle them?  They should always have an attacking mindset.

True, but they were also on the field a lot more than the offense. Had the offense pulled there weight season would have looked a lot different. Morris and brick had them playing.

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2 minutes ago, red falcon said:

Goes with management also. The two top 15 players we chose to rush the passer are no longer on the roster and didnt seem to want to play football. 

TD is common with MS and DQ. He tends to prefer measurables over football players. It’s almost coincidence, he had great 2008 draft to go with left over players from 2007. Lasted till 2012. A great 2016 draft and not much after. I wanted DQ gone but TD gets his share of blame.

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2 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

They improved but my biggest concern is giving up points in bunches. I think the win rate for most teams is 0.1 when the defense gives up 20 points in a quarter. I want to see consistency on both offense and defense playing as one team. 

I hear you, but if offense had done it’s job and played to it’s potential as defense did after Quinn was fired, it’s an entirely different story.

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7 minutes ago, red falcon said:

True, but they were also on the field a lot more than the offense. Had the offense pulled there weight season would have looked a lot different. Morris and brick had them playing.

Well that’s not true. Falcons offensive problem was RZ production. The Falcons offense dominated time of possession. What killed the defense was big plays and inability to get off the field on 3rd downs. Falcons offense was top 10 on third down conversions. Defense improved but still ended up around 18-20. If Falcons scored better in RZ, the offense would have scored much more.

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4 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I hear you, but if offense had done it’s job and played to it’s potential as defense did after Quinn was fired, it’s an entirely different story.

The RZ killed them. I do think lack of run game and no Julio was big factor in RZ. The offense scored good in first 5-6 weeks when Julio was playing and Gurley showed some promise. 

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25 minutes ago, Da_Truth said:

I know there are times when a defense has to run the zone scheme, but why do our guys seem to be unaware of a guy who sits down right in front of them AND doesn't attack the opponent while the ball is in the air? It bugs me when they'll watch the player catch the ball and then try and tackle them?  They should always have an attacking mindset.

I believe it's the bend but don't break philosophy. They may be afraid of giving up a big play if they commit too hard and get burned in the process, or miss a tackle.

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27 minutes ago, Malachore said:

Teams threw all over them, there was no need to run the ball. It had nothing to do with having big leads, they were not good against the run either.

Perhaps team threw all over them because they realized they couldn't get anything on the ground going. Also most teams in the NFL run the ball if they have large leads. If the offense (DK) was at fault, then that means that the defense would have to stop more runs. 

The zone defense with a lack of pass rush was shredded, I haven't looked this up, but I bet Atlanta gave up the most YAC from that raggedy zone and poor open field tackling. 

I'm hoping Pees comes in changes this and the defense improves drastically. Initially I was thinking that there were too many holes to fill on defense than we had cap for, but now I realize that the defense is not as bad as it looked.

Edited by ThemDarnFalconsBoy!
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15 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

TD is common with MS and DQ. He tends to prefer measurables over football players. It’s almost coincidence, he had great 2008 draft to go with left over players from 2007. Lasted till 2012. A great 2016 draft and not much after. I wanted DQ gone but TD gets his share of blame.

Yes. TD had his moments and great picks, but there were a ton more mediocre to terrible picks mixed in. When cast off of Atlanta most of these picks didn't do anything elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, ThemDarnFalconsBoy! said:

I believe it's the bend but don't break philosophy. They may be afraid of giving up a big play if they commit too hard and get burned in the process, or miss a tackle.

Some of the players do play hesitant like they are scared. That's a problem the new coaches will have to deal with.

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