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You people gotta get over the whole Saint connection.  Honestly.  Are you 12?

Td was a first time gm, les snead was a first time gm, ect ect. Stop overthinking it. Its building a football team, not nuclear warheads.

Devonta Freeman got signed by the Bills today... thats pretty cool.

 

7 minutes ago, ATLSAGE said:

I honestly have and that's why I'm coming here to ask you guys to help talk me down lol. I'm not against him and I think there's a chance he'll be successful. I just don't see how his resume stacks up with my guy Rick lol.

This is the thing, and has been mentioned, it's all out there.  I would highly recommend you start doing more in depth searching because I think the more you discover, the more you will like him as a candidate.

Take this for example, around the minute mark he makes a comment about "you're a pro guy but of course you look a lot at college players", some would not catch that or dismiss it outright, but the more you hear this man talk the more you understand how much his hands are on what they built.  This is just one of many videos, articles, blurbs about the man. 

 

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Just now, athell said:

 

This is the thing, and has been mentioned, it's all out there.  I would highly recommend you start doing more in depth searching because I think the more you discover, the more you will like him as a candidate.

Take this for example, around the minute mark he makes a comment about "you're a pro guy but of course you look a lot at college players", some would not catch that or dismiss it outright, but the more you hear this man talk the more you understand how much his hands are on what they built.

 

I did the YouTube search too. Remember, I said I think he's qualified to be a GM in the NFL. That's not my issue. I just think its a lot more risky to take a chance on him when we have a guy like Rick Smith out there right now. Having your "hands" on decision making is a lot different than being the decision maker (GM). Rick has already done it. I'm not trying to discredit your opinion because I want the best GM for our team.

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The two names I hope we stay far away from: Bieniemy and Rick Smith. Smith has pretty much only hit on first round picks. Come on man using Clowney as a reference? He was highly scouted since he was like 15 in high school. Everyone knew he was gonna be the number 1 pick for like 5 years. And honestly, he ain't that good.

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8 minutes ago, GATXBOI said:

You are absolutely wrong  look at his draft record and how many players are still in the league. His only knock took him a while to hit on WR and QBs. Other than that solid draft.

@Refried BeansBeans if you can drop that link again please.

Brandon Brooks is the only elite player he drafted in Rounds 2-7 in 12 drafts. Outside of him, It's mostly a bunch of depth guys at best.

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3 minutes ago, ATLSAGE said:

I did the YouTube search too. Remember, I said I think he's qualified to be a GM in the NFL. That's not my issue. I just think its a lot more risky to take a chance on him when we have a guy like Rick Smith out there right now. Having your "hands" on decision making is a lot different than being the decision maker (GM). Rick has already done it. I'm not trying to discredit your opinion because I want the best GM for our team.

So what say you about this?

https://www.houstonpress.com/news/rick-smiths-eleven-draft-classes-are-a-lesson-in-depression-10092488

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1 minute ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

Brandon Brooks is the only elite player he drafted in Rounds 2-7 in 12 drafts. Outside of him, It's mostly a bunch of depth guys at best.

Just linked it, but yep.

https://www.houstonpress.com/news/rick-smiths-eleven-draft-classes-are-a-lesson-in-depression-10092488

Just because he done it, doesn't necessarily mean he done it well.

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28 minutes ago, ATLSAGE said:
32 minutes ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

Well he did not pick Arian so to speak, he went undrafted lol but yes that was a good signing. If theirs any position an undrafted player can be found easiest though it would be RB. The fact he drafted for 12 years in Houston and Ben Jones is the best guy you can think of should tell you all you need to know.

 

Rick Smith draft history is solid. A heap of those players still playing quality minutes now. Houston problems was coaching after Kubiak. O'Brien wanted the Patriot Way.

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1 minute ago, GATXBOI said:

Rick Smith draft history is solid. A heap of those players still playing quality minutes now. Houston problems was coaching after Kubiak. O'Brien wanted the Patriot Way.

nothing but depth players. He can't draft impact players in rounds 2-7 and theirs plenty of evidence to support that. Show me the list of players you think are good players that he drafted in Rounds 2-7. 

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4 minutes ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

Brandon Brooks is the only elite player he drafted in Rounds 2-7 in 12 drafts. Outside of him, It's mostly a bunch of depth guys at best.

Brian Cushing, Kareem Jackson, Whitney Mercilus, Benardrick McKinney, Zach Cunningham, Brandon Brooks, Brooks Reed, Arian Foster, AJ Bouye are all players who made an impact in the league at some point in their careers. All Rick Smith picks.

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3 minutes ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

nothing but depth players. He can't draft impact players in rounds 2-7 and theirs plenty of evidence to support that. Show me the list of players you think are good players that he drafted in Rounds 2-7. 

Please find me the GM/Front Office that hits on rounds 2-7 consistently. Maybe Baltimore & Pittsburgh but their leadership is lock solid and going nowhere.

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I remember when Rick Smith picked Mario Williams over Reggie Bush and everyone thought the Texans were crazy. In hindsight, Mario ended up having a better overall career and longer impact.

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7 minutes ago, ATLSAGE said:

Please find me the GM/Front Office that hits on rounds 2-7 consistently. Maybe Baltimore & Pittsburgh but their leadership is lock solid and going nowhere.

Rounds 2-7 is what separates good GM's from great ones.  You cannot simply overlook it.  What do you think about the article I linked?  It's...not great...

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2 minutes ago, ATLSAGE said:

Brian Cushing, Kareem Jackson, Whitney Mercilus, Benardrick McKinney, Zach Cunningham, Brandon Brooks, Brooks Reed, Arian Foster, AJ Bouye are all players who made an impact in the league at some point in their careers. All Rick Smith picks.

My guy...Do you need assistance reading? How many times are you going to list 1st round picks? Kareem, Cushing and Mercilus were all 1st rounders. No one is questioning his ability to hit in the 1st round. Then you listed 2 guys he did not even draft (Bouye and Foster).

Out of that entire list, You added one good/solid player to the already mentioned Brandon Brooks in Rounds 2-7 (McKinney). Cunningham is not a good player so not sure why you listed him.

In 12 years...2 good players from rounds 2-7. Talk about setting the world on fire.

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Just now, athell said:

Rounds 2-7 is what separates good GM's from great ones.  You cannot simply overlook it.  What do you think about the article I linked?  It's...not great...

I understand that he has whiffs but we can't ignore the guys I listed above either. That article gives Rick some credit as well. We all know that we will not find the perfect GM that makes every correct pick. That has never existed and never will. It's football. I'm looking at the guys we've interviewed and none stack up to Rick's resume, in my opinion.

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2 minutes ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

My guy...Do you need assistance reading? How many times are you going to list 1st round picks? Kareem, Cushing and Mercilus were all 1st rounders. No one is questioning his ability to hit in the 1st round. Then you listed 2 guys he did not even draft (Bouye and Foster).

Out of that entire list, You added one good/solid player to the already mentioned Brandon Brooks in Rounds 2-7 (McKinney). Cunningham is not a good player so not sure why you listed him.

In 12 years...2 good players from rounds 2-7. Talk about setting the world on fire.

Cunningham led the league in tackles and even though Texans are trash, I wouldn't say he's a trash player. Finding impact players in undrafted free agency is a positive. I don't understand how much proof you need of his competence at getting good players from college on his team.

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Just now, ATLSAGE said:

Cunningham led the league in tackles and even though Texans are trash, I wouldn't say he's a trash player. Finding impact players in undrafted free agency is a positive. I don't understand how much proof you need of his competence at getting good players from college on his team.

Paul Worrilow was a pretty good tackle guy too. Was 5th in the league one year. Cunningham is mediocre on a good day.

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12 minutes ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

Brandon Brooks is the only elite player he drafted in Rounds 2-7 in 12 drafts. Outside of him, It's mostly a bunch of depth guys at best.

Here you go these are players not drafted in the 1st Just to name a few please don't knick pick:

2006: Demeco Ryan LB, Eric Winston OT, Owen Daniels TE 

07: Jacoby Jones WR 

08:  Steve Slaton RB 

09: Connor Barwin DE, Glover Quin CB, James Casey TE 

10: Ben Tate RB, Earl Mitchell DT, Shelley Smith OT 

11: Brooks Reed LB , Brandon Harris CB 

12: Devier Posey WR, Brandon Brooks OG, Ben Jones C, KeyShawn Martin WR, Jared Crick DE, Randy Bullock K 

13: DJ Swearinger S, Sam Montgomery DE, David Quessenberry OT, Chris Jones DT 

14: Xavier Sua Fill OG, CJ Fiedorowics TE, Louis Nix III DT, Jeffrey Pagan DE, Alfred Blue RB, Lonnie Ballentine S 

15: Benardrick McKinley ILB, Christian Covington DT 

16: Nick Martin C, DJ Reader DT 

17: Zach Cunningham LB, D'onta Foreman RB, Julian Davenport OT, Carlos Watkins DT 

What do you think about his mid round picks?

 

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5 minutes ago, ATLSAGE said:

I understand that he has whiffs but we can't ignore the guys I listed above either. That article gives Rick some credit as well. We all know that we will not find the perfect GM that makes every correct pick. That has never existed and never will. It's football. I'm looking at the guys we've interviewed and none stack up to Rick's resume, in my opinion.

Here's where I'm struggling with you particularly right now.  You don't want Fontenot (which is fine btw) because he lacks experience and yet you are endorsing a guy who has the experience you are looking for but willing to overlook and excuse away the poor results from that experience.  You can't have it both ways.  Especially when the guy you don't want has had a hand, at minimum, in one of, if not THE, best drafting teams in the NFL the past 5 years.

Rick has a resume, he has the title, but lots of people lie on their resumes and lots of people aren't worthy of their titles.  I don't even dislike Rick, I said that, but in a thread where you claim to want to be convinced, you sure seem closed off and tunnel visioned on 1 candidate...

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Just now, GATXBOI said:

Here you go these are players not drafted in the 1st Just to name a few please don't knick pick:

2006: Demeco Ryan LB, Eric Winston OT, Owen Daniels TE 

07: Jacoby Jones WR 

08:  Steve Slaton RB 

09: Connor Barwin DE, Glover Quin CB, James Casey TE 

10: Ben Tate RB, Earl Mitchell DT, Shelley Smith OT 

11: Brooks Reed LB , Brandon Harris CB 

12: Devier Posey WR, Brandon Brooks OG, Ben Jones C, KeyShawn Martin WR, Jared Crick DE, Randy Bullock K 

13: DJ Swearinger S, Sam Montgomery DE, David Quessenberry OT, Chris Jones DT 

14: Xavier Sua Fill OG, CJ Fiedorowics TE, Louis Nix III DT, Jeffrey Pagan DE, Alfred Blue RB, Lonnie Ballentine S 

15: Benardrick McKinley ILB, Christian Covington DT 

16: Nick Martin C, DJ Reader DT 

17: Zach Cunningham LB, D'onta Foreman RB, Julian Davenport OT, Carlos Watkins DT 

What do you think about his mid round picks?

 

I think you just proved his point...

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Just now, athell said:

Here's where I'm struggling with you particularly right now.  You don't want Fontenot (which is fine btw) because he lacks experience and yet you are endorsing a guy who has the experience you are looking for but willing to overlook and excuse away the poor results from that experience.  You can't have it both ways.  Especially when the guy you don't want has had a hand, at minimum, in one of, if not THE, best drafting teams in the NFL the past 5 years.

Rick has a resume, he has the title, but lots of people lie on their resumes and lots of people aren't worthy of their titles.  I don't even dislike Rick, I said that, but in a thread where you claim to want to be convinced, you sure seem closed off and tunnel visioned on 1 candidate...

Fair point. I talked about this in the first thread I created months ago. I don't ignore Rick Smith's failings. My biggest negatives with him have less to do with the draft and more to do with the free agents he's signed, the Brock Osweiler trade, and hiring Bill O Brien. I believe that taking a few years off from the game due to his wife's death will give him a fresh perspective. He's already shown me he can find a franchise QB and he was smart by being able to trade Brock Osweiler to the Browns when he realized he was crap. We may have to trade Matt Ryan one day. We could use that experience. I have no idea if Fontenot can find our franchise QB because Drew Brees has been there forever. 

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