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Bieniemy Vs Smith Comparison


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9 hours ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

a poster who lives in the nashville area commented a while back that smith spent the offseason anticipating how teams were going to defend the titans offense this year, and made adjustments and variations based off of the possible defensive schemes they could be facing.

as was mentioned already, he assessed the strenghts and weaknesses of all the personnel on the offense and developed him schemes to maximize their production.

and he's an o-lineman by trade so his blocking schemes are lineman-friendly, gotta keep them hoggies firing!

Sold me on he’s an olineman by trade. Because that’s our biggest weakness 

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30 minutes ago, thanat0s said:

No one is going to convince me that Andy isn't in charge of his own offense, so this is more of a comparison of Andy and Smith, not EB.

People can make the case of temperament and leadership, etc., but play design and play calling? I can't buy it. 

Yeah but the same is true of Shanahan and LaFleur and that worked out. 
 

Unfortunately it worked out for another team 😪

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I guess if I’m watching KC play, because they are fun to watch, I see Mahomes who would probably find a way to be impactful anywhere. His accuracy is good enough and he’s slippery and he’s got this back yard game that buys time. 
Then add Bell. And Robinson and Hill sometimes. And Kelce and PM has some good options. And their secondary is good, Mathieu holding court. 
I’m agreeing that EB has some rare tools to work with and on a good day it’s hard to tell how much he is contributing. Maybe a lot. Maybe not. With Smith you could see the quick adjustments to the O in real time.  I know we’re not there with the ground game today but I like the idea of a coach who plays to the strength of the players, not the other way around. Because that’s a shorter road. 
But I’ve said, who knows what happens with the hire.  Nothing to do but wait. And watch basketball!

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The idea that someone who has worked under one of the best offensive minds in football somehow doesn't know how to coordinate an offense or call plays is silly.  I grant it's an unknown.  But even with Reid's coaching tree failures, you see guys like Brad Childress who still know how to call an offense.  

I'm not at all saying EB is a sure thing.  But acting like he's some incompetent because it's Andy Reid's offense is just crazy.  LaFleur was way more unknown, and it's clear he picked up a thing or two.

You assess him in the interview.  If he interviews well, that's about all you have to go on.  I still prefer Smith or Daboll because they are unquestionably in charge of their offenses.  But Daboll has a spotty track record previously too, so some of those same questions arise with him.  And Smith is green as all get out.  I prefer him for reasons having to do with scheme and philosophy, but the truth is, none of these guys are sure things.

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10 hours ago, Francis York Morgan said:

AS is one of my favorite candidates for HC, but this is a bit wack. EB could easily be a better HC given his connections, experience, personality, and philosophy...not to mention if anything this is moreso an indictment on Reid.

I only make the comparison because both coaches will be de facto OC.  As we’ve seen the last two years, we don’t function without a competent OC

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9 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I only make the comparison because both coaches will be de facto OC.  As we’ve seen the last two years, we don’t function without a competent OC

How do we know that? Only around half of the offense-minded HCs actually call the plays, and it's not like playcalling is the most important (or even close to the most important) aspect of being a head coach.

And acting like this would make him incompetent...or like EB should get all the flak for how his offense compares to AS but none of the credit for one if the best offenses in the NFL...quit trying to act like you're some objective critic on this dude.

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11 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I have concerns about EB being the right guy to lead the Falcons moving forward.   His struggles the only time he called plays are well documented.  But let’s compare the two coordinators

Everyone would agree that EB has far more talent across the board to work with than Smith.  It’s an embarrassment of riches.  Then look at Smith, who took a discarded QB and blended his skillset perfectly with a dominant run game.  The results speak for themselves.  The Titans franchise has been transformed into an NFL powerhouse.  Since Tannehill took over, here is the Smith vs EB comparison (23 Games):

I. Bieniemy:

  • Points: 28.5 ppg,

  • Rushing:  2,400 rush yards,

  •. Passing:   7,300 passing yards,

  • Redzone Scoring: 12th Overall

  • Yards Per Point: 14.1

  • Run Play Percent: 38% 23rd Overall

  • Scoring Percent: 47% for 5th overall

 

II. Arthur Smith

 • Points: 32 ppg

  • Rushing: 4,000 yards rushing

  • Passing: 6,359 passing yards

  • Redzone Scoring: 2nd Overall

  • Yards Per Point: 12.9 

  • Run Play Percent: 51% 3rd Overall

  • Scoring Percent: 48% for 4th overall

 

My Biggest Takeaway: the Chiefs redzone scoring is a concern.  With all that talent the Chiefs are an average offense in the red area.  My gut says EB is a product of unique talent at every level of his offense.  On the other side Smith has outperformed Bieniemy in every meaningful stat and has done so with significantly less talent. This comparison is not even close if I’m being honest.

I like Arthur Smith too.  I’d rather they hire  Smith, Brady, McDaniel, and a slew of others over EB. 

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4 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Now here is a good point on system and which one may bring a better fit run game and how it fits here BUT you can’t just look at existing system and conclude fit. It’s whatever they run for their current team.

^How could either TEN or KC fit here >> as is << ? They don’t. It would be adapted to personnel or you get the players. It SHOULD be adapted. You get Fields and hope he becomes Mahomes-lite or you get Najee and hope he becomes Henry-lite?

The point is it’s production with the fits.

Now, who will be the OC if they get the gig? How are they at fitting offense to player strengths?

Case in point:

Dirk has Ryan throwing more Air Yards per Attempt than-

Mahomes, Tannehill, Rodgers, Wilson

Source:

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-intended-yards

So it would appear either Smith or EB could be fits as opposed to Dirk. How do you help Ryan even IF you struggle w/ run game:

Hint- dont 4 verts it

Bigger question is likely HC material, as others said.

Thats interesting about the air yards. I wouldn't have thought Ryan was ahead of those guys in that area. For a guy thats a great timing thrower thats not what you wanna see. We all love deep balls but 5-10 yard throws every time moving the chains and nobodys complaining. 

And thats a good point though for sure, coaches definitely need to be able to adjust to their players. Those are always the most successful. I don't even think it's necessarily being stubborn (though plenty are I'm sure) but maybe just being comfortable with what they know and it having gotten them to where they're at but thats no excuse to not make adjustments and improve in any way possible with who you're working with.

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3 minutes ago, Foo Falcons said:

Thats interesting about the air yards. I wouldn't have thought Ryan was ahead of those guys in that area. For a guy thats a great timing thrower thats not what you wanna see. We all love deep balls but 5-10 yard throws every time moving the chains and nobodys complaining. 

And thats a good point though for sure, coaches definitely need to be able to adjust to their players. Those are always the most successful. I don't even think it's necessarily being stubborn (though plenty are I'm sure) but maybe just being comfortable with what they know and it having gotten them to where they're at but thats no excuse to not make adjustments and improve in any way possible with who you're working with.

Exactly. And, the thing is Ryan’s strength was with Kyle’s system 10-25 yards down field, then taking shots. Between the chunk plays, wide zone runs and the 5-10 yard quick game to open up the run; we’d destroy teams with HR deep ball off all of that.

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2 hours ago, JDaveG said:

The idea that someone who has worked under one of the best offensive minds in football somehow doesn't know how to coordinate an offense or call plays is silly.  I grant it's an unknown.  But even with Reid's coaching tree failures, you see guys like Brad Childress who still know how to call an offense.  

I'm not at all saying EB is a sure thing.  But acting like he's some incompetent because it's Andy Reid's offense is just crazy.  LaFleur was way more unknown, and it's clear he picked up a thing or two.

You assess him in the interview.  If he interviews well, that's about all you have to go on.  I still prefer Smith or Daboll because they are unquestionably in charge of their offenses.  But Daboll has a spotty track record previously too, so some of those same questions arise with him.  And Smith is green as all get out.  I prefer him for reasons having to do with scheme and philosophy, but the truth is, none of these guys are sure things.

Supposedly his bad interviews is why he hasn’t gotten a HC job yet

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Smith runs an exotic wide zone run scheme. No one and I mean no one is Derrick Henry. But history is littered with successful RBs who were "no names" but became stars behind wide zone schemes.

Arthur SMith is tailor made for Atlanta from an offensive stand point. Take a top 15 QB, make him NOT have to throw 40+ times a game or carry the team. Run the ball effectively and score in the red zone.  Sorry but that is what we need.  Running better fixes the idiot defense we have. No more time management issues. No more Gurley being the tool he is.

He would be a home run for us and that is why he won't be hired. PLus I think Blank will hire for diversity for diversity sake.

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So does either one of them have a better knack for fitting what they want to do around the players that are here? Does it mean they need to completely rebuild the team to look like KC or Tenn? In my opinion Smith has made more with less talent.  I tend to like more old school football. Running the ball, short passing game, and a really good defense. But that doesn't mean EB wouldn't try to run something like that with the Falcons.

I would be fine with either if they have a clear cut plan and stick to it in all phases. I don't want 2 people calling offense and 3 calling defense anymore.

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1 hour ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I’ll say this.  Smith can be HC/OC.  No problems with that at all.  EB needs to be HC and hire a qualified OC

Man, I read some of these post and I have to say this so just like what is going in the World, its crazy. Mind sets dont change no matter what the subject is about. So EB needs an OC to calls but AS doesnt, I dont really understand it. Either both should have someone else to call plays or they can call plays on their own. Statements that have been made on this topic and otherscmakes me believe there is a lot of bias and hidden agendas in these forums 

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20 hours ago, JDaveG said:

According to who?

NFL rumors: Concerns emerging about Eric Bieniemy as a head coach

 

NFL rumors: Kansas City Chiefs offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy has been one of the most talked-about NFL coaching candidates for the 2021 hiring cycle. While many are very high on Bieniemy, though, the sentiment reportedly isn’t shared across the NFL.

A year after Bieniemy just missed out on several head coach openings, the 51-year-old coordinator stands a great shot of being hired in 2021. While there’s a lot to like about his resume, some NFL teams seem to have concerns with a few on- and off-field issues that will be red flags during the hiring process.

NFL coaching candidates: Top names who could become head coaches

NFL rumors: Teams concerned about Eric Bieniemy off-field issues, coaching history

Related: NFL Power Rankings – Ranking each team for NFL Playoffs.

For many years, NFL teams in need of a head coach have targeted assistant from the Andy Reid coaching tree. The Philadelphia Eagles hired Doug Pederson (Chiefs’ offensive coordinator from 2013-’15) and the Chicago Bears hired Matt Nagy (Kansas City’s OC from 2016-’17). Now, there’s a strong chance Bieniemy becomes the next to make the transition.

Bieniemy interviewed with the Cleveland Browns this past offseason, ultimately losing out on the job to Kevin Stefanski. While he immediately became a popular name for the 2021 coaching cycle, there are reportedly concerns with his resume.

According to Pro Football Network’s Benjamin Allbright, teams are concerned about Bieniemy’s legal troubles in his past, his poor interviews this past offseason and that he isn’t really serving as Kansas City’s play-caller.

As detailed by John Sheeran of SB Nation’s Cincy Jungle, Bieniemy does have a history of off-field issues ranging from his playing days to his time as a coaching assistant. He plead no contest to a charge as a freshman at Colorado for his involvement in a fight at a bar when he was called a racial slur.

In 1991, Bieniemy’s license was suspended for a year following repeated infractions. He later received an on-campus ban from the University of Colorado for harassing and assaulting a parking lot attendant. In addition, he was arrested for DUI in 2001. Bieniemy also worked on Colorado’s coaching staff when the program had multiple players facing rape allegations.

Since making the jump to the NFL as Kansas City’s running backs coach (2013-’17), Bieniemy hasn’t found any legal trouble. He seemingly has turned a corner in his life and learned from his mistakes, but NFL teams will still do extensive background and interviews to gauge his character.

NFL rumors: ‘Smart money’ on Eric Bieniemy becoming this NFL team’s HC

Pro Football Network previously reported that Bieniemy’s past head coach interviews with teams didn’t go well. It hurt him during the evaluation process and led to other candidates landing the job. For him to become an NFL head coach, it will be crucial to selling teams on himself as a person and a play-caller.

Lastly, NFL teams are aware that Reid is calling a majority of the plays in Kansas City. So, there is more risk in betting on a coach who last called plays for a pedestrian Colorado Buffaloes’ offense in 2011-’12.

NFL rumors: Deshaun Watson has specific target to become head coach

There are clearly some issues that Bieniemy must address with clubs before landing a job. With that said, he carries a strong endorsement from Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes has also raved about him. When one of the NFL’s greatest coaches and its best player both sing your praises, NFL teams will take notice.

 

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Houston Texans targeting Eric Bieniemy as next head coach?

PFN Insider Benjamin Allbright reported that he thinks Chiefs OC Eric Bieniemy is the target for the Houston Texans head coach position.

AJ Schulte2 days ago

Eric Bieniemy’s tenure as the offensive coordinator for Colorado will also likely raise a few question marks.

In his two years as offensive coordinator under Jon Embree (2011-2012), the Buffaloes went 4-21. In 2011, the Buffaloes ranked 109th in points scored (19.8), 92nd in total yards (346.3), and 78th in yards per play (5.3). One of the most concerning elements for the Buffaloes was their discipline. In 2011, they averaged 7.9 penalties per game (tied for second) and 66.6 yards per game (sixth).

In Bieniemy’s second season, things got worse for the offense. The Buffaloes ranked 120th in total points (17.8), 119th in total yards (302.8), and 120th in yards per play (4.4).

Bieniemy’s success in Kansas City has made him the head coach target for the Texans

Eric Bieniemy’s work with Andy Reid and the offensive success the Chiefs have had these last few years has made Bieniemy an appealing candidate to many teams who will be looking to replicate that success.

In his first two years on the job, the Chiefs had a 24-8 record. They also won the Super Bowl in his second season. At the time of this post, the Chiefs are 13-1 and clear leaders in the AFC playoff race. While Eric Bieniemy has been the Chiefs’ offensive coordinator, the Chiefs have ranked in the top six in points scored and yards gained offensively.

Bieniemy’s work in 2020

This year, the Chiefs rank first in passing yards per game by an impressive 33 more yards per game than the second-place Buffalo Bills. The Chiefs are also first in total yards per game this season. On top of that, they are once again the overwhelming favorite for the Super Bowl.

The Houston offense has been primarily run through Deshaun Watson this season. The Texans are third in passing offense but dead last in rushing yards. As a former running backs coach in the NFL, Bieniemy will likely try and increase Houston’s effectiveness on the ground. To emphasize this point, the Chiefs are 14th in rushing yards per game this season.

Bieniemy understands the need to balance out an elite quarterback with an effective ground game. It’s clear Houston’s current “Air Raid” strategy with Watson isn’t winning them games. Therefore, Bieniemy likely has no hesitation in moving away from that style.

Who is really calling the shots in Kansas City?

On a previous episode of the PFN Weekly show, Allbright mentioned that Eric Bieniemy is “a titleholder who relays the play calls in but doesn’t make the play calls very often.”

“Andy Reid’s doing the play calling. Like 99 percent of the time Andy Reid is doing the play calling, he designed the offense, all of that stuff.”

Allbright has also mentioned that Bieniemy’s previous interviews have been poor. These poor interviews have likely caused him to fall out of consideration for certain positions in the past. Allbright mentioned that some teams with vacancies aren’t all that interested in Bieniemy. These historical poor interviews could be a big reason why.

 

@JDaveG Tony Pauline is the person who reported the poor interviews by EB

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17 hours ago, blknoble357 said:

Man, I read some of these post and I have to say this so just like what is going in the World, its crazy. Mind sets dont change no matter what the subject is about. So EB needs an OC to calls but AS doesnt, I dont really understand it. Either both should have someone else to call plays or they can call plays on their own. Statements that have been made on this topic and otherscmakes me believe there is a lot of bias and hidden agendas in these forums 

It’s really not complicated.  Smith has called a full game in the NFL.  Bieniemy never has and I don’t want his first time being with the Falcons.  He can be a great HC without calling a single play

 

Who is really calling the shots in Kansas City?

On a previous episode of the PFN Weekly show, Allbright mentioned that Eric Bieniemy is “a titleholder who relays the play calls inbut doesn’t make the play calls very often.”

“Andy Reid’s doing the play calling. Like 99 percent of the time Andy Reid is doing the play calling, he designed the offense, all of that stuff.”

 

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