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6 minutes ago, ATLFalcons11 said:

But how long ago was it? Listen I respect the post, but it's clearly leaning a certain way.

There was much mention of Mahomes in this thread, but did we even mention Henry as an outlier himself?

Both coaches have a dominant player attached to them. 
 

 

I thin it was the 2013/2014 season.  But honestly, I’d raise the same objection if Smith only called plays for two years and was bad both years.  Bieniemy seems like a far bigger risk than Smith if he stands firm about calling the offense

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I have concerns about EB being the right guy to lead the Falcons moving forward.   His struggles the only time he called plays are well documented.  But let’s compare the two coordinators Everyon

And who can forget the Chiefs being completely shut down by an average Falcons defense.  That was an awful showing for EB

You can't say this and also say EB doesn't call the plays. Can't have it both ways.

3 hours ago, Killing Floor said:

I love the interaction between Reid and Mahomes but I do also believe that he’s more the evil genius but how could EB not learn from him. 

Learning from being around the evil genius is iffy. DQ didn't learn Shanny's offensive genius from being around him.

More to the point, plenty of Bellichik spin offs turned out to be nothing special.

So that is still a big concern I have about EB. Maybe he'll create and run a great offense, but we've never seen him do it by himself. And if we're wrong, we just wasted 4 more years.

We've seen Arthur Smith do it. We've seen several of the Shanny disciples do it. I hope we go with someone who has done it before.

(That's the same reason that Rick Smith is my pick for GM).

 

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3 hours ago, Killing Floor said:

Ok I’m stupid so lay it on me. 
But my challenge in this comparison is that KC and TN run different offenses but to me they are closer to each other than they are to the Falcons in that they have TE and ground short games and semi-mobile (30+ yards most games) QBs. So my dumb question is how well would either fit regarding our current roster and would it all depend on whether we pick up a solid RB?  I think we have better WRs but I don’t see that as the bigger delta. 
Lay it on me. Because on paper they are my 2 favorites. 

You ask a legit question not stupid at all I’ll try and answer it for you.

What EB or AS have to look at is the personnel we have and where we need to improve.I don’t believe you can force an offensive system per say on a talent base.I think you have to weigh up at what the teams strength is then design an offensive system to best fit what the team has.

For example we right now have Julio Ridley Gage & Hurst as passing options we need to really strengthen the RB position and get back to being a more balanced attack to maximise what we have.If I’m a HC watching film on us and what we do well I’d be salivating at the potential here.

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1 hour ago, QBat3 said:

People calling for EB are going to be throwing a cryfest this time next year when they find out his offense is not much different than Koetter's. 

I don’t watch a lot of KC...but I was always under the strong impression that Reid was a WCO guy...I know KC throws the ball deep, but I see slot of that coming in broken plays. Every scheme has deep routes regardless, and any smart play caller is going to maximize their talent, and in KC that talent is 4.29 and 4.33 speed at WR.

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This debate could go on for days but we won't know until and if we end up with one the two as HC.  We also have to keep in mind we don't even know what current players will or won't be here next season.  We also don't know what players we will acquire in the off season via the draft and free agency.  There's a lot of unknown right now.  There could also possibly be another candidate for HC that's better than both EB and AS.  Bottom line which candidate be it EB, AS, or whomever can be a leader year in and year out?  Who can keep us at the 25th or higher draft position, because if we're drafting at from those position then that means we were in the playoffs.  As long as we're in the playoffs we have chance to win at all.  So as I stated before we just need someone who knows how to lead and acquire players and coaches that will keep us in hunt each and every year.

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8 hours ago, Bunchy Carter said:

A head coach is not an offensive coordinator. How is this comparison relevant?

Yeah and is EB suddenly the Chiefs Playcaller and brains? Which one are we running with this week?

7 hours ago, Francis York Morgan said:

AS is one of my favorite candidates for HC, but this is a bit wack. EB could easily be a better HC given his connections, experience, personality, and philosophy...not to mention if anything this is moreso an indictment on Reid.

Excellent point.

More to it than a brief window of offensive success as the basis for better HC. If we were merely looking for OC? We aren’t necessarily but who becomes OC/DC etc on new staff matters as much. But even still:

7 hours ago, Knight of God said:

Mahomes...Henry

Exactly. Same argument to be made.

Like, are we really concerned a new offensive staff wouldn’t get more out of this offense than Dirk?

Be more concerned with HC fit and what that means for entire staff and entire team; on and off field. Quinn showed what a motivator can look like with & without good coordinators.

There is some merit to seeing how much of Mahomes production comes within scripted and system-centric plays as opposed to when things break down or freelance plays out of the structure.

^I remember seeing a data point about that before but yet again...who gives him the freedom and how are they enabling him? He has weapons and offense is tailored to the strength of the player. Can’t take credit for Mahomes success away from Reid or EB etc.

^Ryan may not be as freelance; obviously, but one could argue as a QB of the system itself? Yes, he can be as good or better than Mahomes IN the system >>> before <<< things beak down (if that data point I’m vaguely remembering was accurate...and I believe it is just don’t have it on hand)

Whole picture guys. Can’t exclude Smith without Henry. Same diff. Way easier to score in RZ with a beast run game as a counter argument.

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5 hours ago, DriveHomeSafelyAtlantaWins said:

Learning from being around the evil genius is iffy. DQ didn't learn Shanny's offensive genius from being around him.

More to the point, plenty of Bellichik spin offs turned out to be nothing special.

So that is still a big concern I have about EB. Maybe he'll create and run a great offense, but we've never seen him do it by himself. And if we're wrong, we just wasted 4 more years.

We've seen Arthur Smith do it. We've seen several of the Shanny disciples do it. I hope we go with someone who has done it before.

(That's the same reason that Rick Smith is my pick for GM).

 

Ok come on man the DQ and Shanny thing is a terrible comparison. I really feel like you could have tried harder there. LOL.

The Belicheck point made is pretty solid though. A counter point is the willingness of the teacher. That plays a part. We've heard reports of Reid being that teacher type. I don't recall hearing reports of that about Billy Boy.

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53 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

I don’t watch a lot of KC...but I was always under the strong impression that Reid was a WCO guy...I know KC throws the ball deep, but I see slot of that coming in broken plays. Every scheme has deep routes regardless, and any smart play caller is going to maximize their talent, and in KC that talent is 4.29 and 4.33 speed at WR.

Their offense incorporates alot of what we do as far as the deep passing game. 

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8 hours ago, Foo Falcons said:

Agreed. Not many Mahomes are available. Tannehill was an after thought yet he made him into a top 10 QB in 2020 maybe top 5 honestly. Henry certainly helps but who can honestly debate Tannehill over Ryan? In-the-moment thinkers? Image Matty Ice with Henry.. Its the burner all over again if not better obviously. Thats why hiring Arthur Smith while drafting a guy like Najee Harris is so intruding.. Ryan works best off of play action. And when you have a guy that consistently threatens the ground game he looks like an MVP QB. Give him the time an all-pro RB takes up and his timing shows, he's an All-pro QB. Thats what we need

Now here is a good point on system and which one may bring a better fit run game and how it fits here BUT you can’t just look at existing system and conclude fit. It’s whatever they run for their current team.

^How could either TEN or KC fit here >> as is << ? They don’t. It would be adapted to personnel or you get the players. It SHOULD be adapted. You get Fields and hope he becomes Mahomes-lite or you get Najee and hope he becomes Henry-lite?

The point is it’s production with the fits.

Now, who will be the OC if they get the gig? How are they at fitting offense to player strengths?

Case in point:

Dirk has Ryan throwing more Air Yards per Attempt than-

Mahomes, Tannehill, Rodgers, Wilson

Source:

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-intended-yards

So it would appear either Smith or EB could be fits as opposed to Dirk. How do you help Ryan even IF you struggle w/ run game:

Hint- dont 4 verts it

Bigger question is likely HC material, as others said.

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I don’t recall game plan and play calling being issues against us. I recall Mahomes missing a bunch of receivers and then having them drop the ball when he did hit them. He threw a couple of picks too. 

Bieniemy should have called the plays that didn’t call for bad throws, drops and picks I guess? Oh wait, he doesn’t call the plays (supposedly) so he’s off the hook there too. 

This is manufactured dude. Bieniemy is a fine choice. 

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8 hours ago, Francis York Morgan said:

AS is one of my favorite candidates for HC, but this is a bit wack. EB could easily be a better HC given his connections, experience, personality, and philosophy...not to mention if anything this is moreso an indictment on Reid.

Yeah from everything I’ve read about EB he is a leader of men. Plus he probably wouldn’t call plays here. He would be a big part of the game plan as he is in KC now. Honestly that’s what a lot of players need right now. They have been to comfortable the last several years. 

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13 minutes ago, xSICKxWITHxITx said:

Yeah from everything I’ve read about EB he is a leader of men. Plus he probably wouldn’t call plays here. He would be a big part of the game plan as he is in KC now. Honestly that’s what a lot of players need right now. They have been to comfortable the last several years. 

My fascination with EB is the fact that when teams double Julio or blanket cover both he and Ridley we go into a shell ans can’t figure out how to move the ball.  I live in KC so I watch a lot of games (and root for them unless they play US).  But what KC does a GREAT job at is, when teams double Tyreek/Kelce, their in game adjustments after half are pretty good.  And one thing ppl are forgetting is they’re doing this without their starting RB, still playing well without their #2 RB, and no matter who’s calling the plays they’ve only lost 2 games. I love the route combinations that Reid or EB puts together.  I am biased though 

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29 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

I don’t recall game plan and play calling being issues against us. I recall Mahomes missing a bunch of receivers and then having them drop the ball when he did hit them. He threw a couple of picks too. 

Bieniemy should have called the plays that didn’t call for bad throws, drops and picks I guess? Oh wait, he doesn’t call the plays (supposedly) so he’s off the hook there too. 

This is manufactured dude. Bieniemy is a fine choice. 

Yep. Defense said Bob Sutton helped them confuse Mahomes. They challenged Patrick not the system itself; regardless of who you credit or blame as playcaller.

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