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Why Taking a QB at #4 Won’t...and Shouldn’t...Happen


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1 hour ago, Rings said:

Wins are a team stat, not a QB stat.  If you have watched any Jets games and think Darnold is anywhere close to Ryan you are clueless.  That said Gase is hot garbage so I’m sure he could be better, but the difference is we have never seen a good version of him in the pros, we have with Ryan.  People want to chalk everything up to age like they did with Free last year, I think everyone will look magically younger next year when Dirk isn’t here.

You were the one who brought up Darnold...not me.

I was simply pointing out he’s been marginally less effective at winning football games than you Matty Greenest Grass.  This despite:

1) Adam Gase and all his wonderfulness that is worse than anything Ryan (or the Falcons in general) has had to deal with.

2) The best WR he’s had to throw to being Jamison Crowder.  Not Julio Jones or Calvin Ridley.

3) A shambles of an O-Line.

But if you’re grateful to have a QB who has helmed an offense over the last 8 years that has on average finished 13th in PPG despite all that’s been invested on that side of the ball...you are the definition of  an Atlanta Fan.  Thankful for the drippings of the successful while propping up failure as an attribute.

I have higher standards.

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1 hour ago, thanat0s said:

Honestly, many of those people have been itching to get rid of Matt since the day he was drafted. It has nothing to do with his performance. It's just some sort of irrational personal thing with no basis in reality.

 

Wrong ... You homers never hold him accountable for Anything ....Offensive line , wr, coach, ref ,ect .. it's always someone else's fault. And I'm not saying Ryan needs to be cut or traded, that's not happening. But I won't Zach Wilson at number four. Let him sit behind Ryan next year. That's all folks !!!!!!

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2 minutes ago, SavedByGrace1221 said:

Wrong ... You homers never hold him accountable for Anything ....Offensive line , wr, coach, ref ,ect .. it's always someone else's fault. And I'm not saying Ryan needs to be cut or traded, that's not happening. But I won't Zach Wilson at number four. Let him sit behind Ryan next year. That's all folks !!!!!!

When I read this, all I hear in my head is that wah wah sound that the grownups make on Peanuts...

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56 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

I have higher standards.

Like many, I have read your posts with disdain for your agenda and your snobbery of a single minded focus.  I do believe though that you believe that if the Falcons and their fans could only see what you could see then there would be clarity and Lombardis would be swinging from Peachtree St (pick one).

But this ending statement made me stop and wonder, have you ever stated what you would do to fix this?  I know you have great focus at pointing out the issue, but just ffs, if you were interviewing for the GM or head coach position today, what would be the 3 things you would do right now (or post June 1 this year, if it makes more sense to wait)

And what guarantees are you willing to make without question or doubt that these 3 actions would meet your higher standards in year one?  Or will it take 2 years, or even three.  I just have read a lot of your posts and it just seems like a lot of complaining with no real solutions so I want to allow you to level-set because I may have missed your detailed plan to go forward in lieu of your feverous plan to take it all apart

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14 hours ago, Rings said:

1) You draft a QB when your current QB is bad...ours isn’t.

2) You draft a QB when your QB is ending his career...ours isn’t.

3) You draft a QB so you can take advantage of the rookie wage scale and save a ton of money for five years and build around him...we are still paying Ryan so that isn’t a thing, and we have no money to surround that person with talent.

4) The flawed logic of “we won’t be drafting this high in a long time we we have to take our QB of the future”. This is wrong for two reasons.  QBs taken in the top five have been less successful then the rest of the fist round, and that includes trade ups so it isn’t always bad teams,  second, and most importantly, if we are going to be drafting later the next few years, that means we are winning...with Matt Ryan...so we don’t need a QB right now.

5) Our offense will look night and day better once DK is gone.  He made everyone on offense, including Ryan, look worse than they are.

6) We gave up 44 points today, had a fluke INT and they took a knee on our side of the field, and some think QB is the problem.

It blows my mind that Jets fans fight for Sam Darnold who has accomplished nothing and this fan base is so blind they want to flush Ryan down the toilet.  I am at the point where I almost want it to happen so I can call every person on here out when the grass isn’t greener and they realize Ryan is the best QB this franchise has ever had and for some reason people did nothing but **** on him his whole career, mainly because they have no clue what they are talking about.

I know a bunch of GB Packer fans who are happy they drafted Rodgers when they still had Favre. But cool story tho

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7 minutes ago, SavedByGrace1221 said:

Wrong ... You homers never hold him accountable for Anything ....Offensive line , wr, coach, ref ,ect .. it's always someone else's fault. And I'm not saying Ryan needs to be cut or traded, that's not happening. But I won't Zach Wilson at number four. Let him sit behind Ryan next year. That's all folks !!!!!!

Heres what I dont get though.  If you take Wilson at 4, then why does he have to sit behind Ryan?  If he's ready, then lets see the goods.  Is it the cap implication cause you could give Ryan the clipboard and there is no dead cap at all and the kid could show the goods right away.

Most QBs drafted top 5 start, why would we baby this guy... #4 pick, I want to see what we got.  Offensive line porous as usual, defense giving up 40 burgers to aging QBs, receivers running routes that take forever to develop... buckle up kid, we Falcons, this is the Falcon way.  You da future, sling that rock.

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6 minutes ago, treboyplay said:

I know a bunch of GB Packer fans who are happy they drafted Rodgers when they still had Favre. But cool story tho

Drafted 24th, basically about the same value of a high second round pick by a perennial winner, based on future (years away) value. That isn't why teams draft QBs in the top five. Ever.

This team would have to be immediately blown up if we take a QB and don't try to build this defense at the top of the first round. That means 2-3 years of losing, all with only the faint hope that a replacement QB is half the player Matt is. 

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I posted  this on another of the many QB threads around here, but I'll put it here, too...

 

For what it's worth, I started toying with the PFN mock draft sim, and I was offered this trade for #4...

Washington's 

1 (19), 2 (51), 4 (114) and their 2022 1st. I accepted that before the website crashed. 😄


For the record, I took Ojulari with our 19th pick, and surprisingly, Mac Jones was on the board at 51, so I took him to appease the peanut gallery, lol. I'd have taken Harris, but he went a few spots earlier to Green Bay. 

Maybe we could offer up a little draft capital and move up to get him, who knows. But one thing is for sure, getting that 1 next year as icing on the cake from a usually collapsing Skins team could make that a mammoth deal for us, if they land in the top 5-10. 

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1 hour ago, RetroRoq said:

Like many, I have read your posts with disdain for your agenda and your snobbery of a single minded focus.  I do believe though that you believe that if the Falcons and their fans could only see what you could see then there would be clarity and Lombardis would be swinging from Peachtree St (pick one).

But this ending statement made me stop and wonder, have you ever stated what you would do to fix this?  I know you have great focus at pointing out the issue, but just ffs, if you were interviewing for the GM or head coach position today, what would be the 3 things you would do right now (or post June 1 this year, if it makes more sense to wait)

And what guarantees are you willing to make without question or doubt that these 3 actions would meet your higher standards in year one?  Or will it take 2 years, or even three.  I just have read a lot of your posts and it just seems like a lot of complaining with no real solutions so I want to allow you to level-set because I may have missed your detailed plan to go forward in lieu of your feverous plan to take it all apart

I think first and foremost, the Falcons need a clean slate.  And they have two chips in Julio/Ryan by which to provide themselves captial to help in building the roster back up.  A lot of folks will mumbo jumbo you with regard to salary cap ramifications and whatnot, but if you treat 2021 as a throwaway year (much like the Falcons treated 2008)...you can make the numbers work.  It might require the pushing of certain contract ramifications to 2022but at the as you mentioned, but at end of the day, there should be no sacred cows on a team that's won 18 games over the last 3 seasons.  Seasons in which the franchise itself stoked high expectations.

Ryan has taken the Falcons as far as he's going to take them.  Going .500 for Ryan now represents signifcant improvement.  If you use he Bills as a blueprint, that was a team that had gone 33-31 from 2014-2017.  Tyrod Taylor had been their QB for the three most recent seasons of that stretch resulting in the Bills making the playoffs in 2017.  But they recognized his limitations, much the same way the Falcons need to recognize Ryan's.  His 2016 is increasingly looking like Brady Anderson's 50 HR season fueled by the genius of an offensive mind literally raised in the offensive system he ran.  And while Ryan is not nearly as limited as Taylor, he's just completed the 2nd 18-30 stretch of his career, both within the last 8 years?  

Guarantees? I don't need to make any.  I'm willing to accept the unknown...you have to with a rebuild.  Some picks turn into Mitch Trubisky.  Others turn into Josh Allen.  That's the nature of the beast.  At least it shows a commitment to understanding that the status quo is unacceptable in it's most important player.  But 18-30 is good enough in this town so long  as the fans can put a checkmark in the 'competent QB box'.  That's called setting the bar low and that's been what this town has done throughout it's history.  Well, you reap what you sow.

 

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4 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

I think first and foremost, the Falcons need a clean slate.  And they have two chips in Julio/Ryan by which to provide themselves captial to help in building the roster back up.  A lot of folks will mumbo jumbo you with regard to salary cap ramifications and whatnot, but if you treat 2021 as a throwaway year (much like the Falcons treated 2008)...you can make the numbers work.  It might require the pushing of certain contract ramifications to 2022but at the as you mentioned, but at end of the day, there should be no sacred cows on a team that's won 18 games over the last 3 seasons.  Seasons in which the franchise itself stoked high expectations.

Ryan has taken the Falcons as far as he's going to take them.  Going .500 for Ryan now represents signifcant improvement.  If you use he Bills as a blueprint, that was a team that had gone 33-31 from 2014-2017.  Tyrod Taylor had been their QB for the three most recent seasons of that stretch resulting in the Bills making the playoffs in 2017.  But they recognized his limitations, much the same way the Falcons need to recognize Ryan's.  His 2016 is increasingly looking like Brady Anderson's 50 HR season fueled by the genius of an offensive mind literally raised in the offensive system he ran.  And while Ryan is not nearly as limited as Taylor, he's just completed the 2nd 18-30 stretch of his career, both within the last 8 years?  

Guarantees? I don't need to make any.  I'm willing to accept the unknown...you have to with a rebuild.  Some picks turn into Mitch Trubisky.  Others turn into Josh Allen.  That's the nature of the beast.  At least it shows a commitment to understanding that the status quo is unacceptable in it's most important player.  But 18-30 is good enough in this town so long  as the fans can put a checkmark in the 'competent QB box'.  That's called setting the bar low and that's been what this town has done throughout it's history.  Well, you reap what you sow.

 

Lot of theory and speculation for explanation, but the request was specific because you said that your standards are higher (I assume than anybody else on this MB).

Please clarify that getting rid of Julio, then getting rid of Ryan (or vice versa) is top 2 actions you would take and treat 2021 as a throwaway year.   Is the 3rd action then pushing contracts ramifications to 2022? Which contracts? I am also unclear since it seems you  have stated you dont need to make any guarantees to achieve your higher standard or are you truly saying that accepting the unknown is highest level of a standard that you are willing to commit to.

Isnt that just another way of embracing the suck but just kicking it down the road so it doesnt hurt so bad right now?  Thanks for answering, I'll hang up and listen.

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25 minutes ago, RetroRoq said:

Lot of theory and speculation for explanation, but the request was specific because you said that your standards are higher (I assume than anybody else on this MB).

Please clarify that getting rid of Julio, then getting rid of Ryan (or vice versa) is top 2 actions you would take and treat 2021 as a throwaway year.   Is the 3rd action then pushing contracts ramifications to 2022? Which contracts? I am also unclear since it seems you  have stated you dont need to make any guarantees to achieve your higher standard or are you truly saying that accepting the unknown is highest level of a standard that you are willing to commit to.

Isnt that just another way of embracing the suck but just kicking it down the road so it doesnt hurt so bad right now?  Thanks for answering, I'll hang up and listen.

At the end of the day, any scenario I put forth is hypothetical.  Even potential trades for each neglect what the actual compensation would be.  Do I think we could get at least a 1st for each?  Yes...what else on top of that...couldn’t tell you.

The higher standard is about not accepting a rotten foundation which is what Ryan (and Julio) represent.  Both have been the identity of the Falcons for the last decade.  The last 8 years have seen the Falcons go 57-71.  They had their window.  If you guys think that embodying the definition of insanity is equal to accepting an unknown and uncertain future...then I’ll consider my standard higher.  Simple as that.

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17 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

 If you guys think that embodying the definition of insanity is equal to accepting an unknown and uncertain future...then I’ll consider my standard higher.  Simple as that.

Yeah, I was just asking for my own understanding.  Wasn't sure if you were truly a frustrated fan or some dude here trolling and I just wanted to get clarity.

I think everybody here wants the team to improve, I think most were abundantly clear on your grievance and not so much on any proposed solution.  Thanks for this little sidebar.

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30 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

At the end of the day, any scenario I put forth is hypothetical.  Even potential trades for each neglect what the actual compensation would be.  Do I think we could get at least a 1st for each?  Yes...what else on top of that...couldn’t tell you.

The higher standard is about not accepting a rotten foundation which is what Ryan (and Julio) represent.  Both have been the identity of the Falcons for the last decade.  The last 8 years have seen the Falcons go 57-71.  They had their window.  If you guys think that embodying the definition of insanity is equal to accepting an unknown and uncertain future...then I’ll consider my standard higher.  Simple as that.

Insanity is the 100 threads a day about Ryan and his stats.  Is he the ONLY player on the Falcons? Julio Jones is the best player on the Falcons, period. I have started MAYBE one thread about him on this board. 

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12 hours ago, esirlivE said:

The fact that you even asked that question goes to show how little you actually know about Matt Ryans playing ability and the NFL in general. He's been one of the most consistent QB's in the NFL during his career.

Yeah but how many rings does he have? Yeah I already know you're going to say it's not his fault, but we're not going to win one with MR. Let him get a chance to win a ring if possible. With all of the glaring holes this team has, his contract (along with Julio's) is one of the reasons why the team won't be able to fix these issues due to depth and having to sign cheap cast offs (see Gurley)

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8 hours ago, blknoble357 said:

I understanding your reasoning but who is there on Defense or at RB that you think we should with the 4th pick. Surtain not sure in my eye is good enough to warrant that pick but I do want to see him in the National Championship Game, because last year LSU torched him something bad.  I hear some here have mentioned Parsons but we have that type of player already with Debo, Oluakon and Walker. The DEs out of Michigan, Pittsburgh doesn't warrant drafting that high. The kid from Georgia RB for Ohio State (Sermon) probably is the #3 back in this draft and he will be there in 2nd or 3rd, Travis from Clemson will be there in the 2nd. 

Not sure which yet but just to throw some names... Parsons, Sewell, Surtain, or Rousseau.  RB would def. be 2nd rounder.  Etienne or Harris should be there at our 2nd pick.

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46 minutes ago, ThemDarnFalconsBoy! said:

Oh but his contract is...

Really?  Cause he’s had a middle of the league cap hit for a starting QB the last three years and we haven’t made the playoffs.  His cap hit next year hasn’t effected our roster the last three.

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2 minutes ago, Rings said:

Really?  Cause he’s had a middle of the league cap hit for a starting QB the last three years and we haven’t made the playoffs.  His cap hit next year hasn’t effected our roster the last three.

Exactly and nothing was accomplished then. The backloading of his contract begins now. Unless he restructures.

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6 hours ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

You were the one who brought up Darnold...not me.

I was simply pointing out he’s been marginally less effective at winning football games than you Matty Greenest Grass.  This despite:

1) Adam Gase and all his wonderfulness that is worse than anything Ryan (or the Falcons in general) has had to deal with.

2) The best WR he’s had to throw to being Jamison Crowder.  Not Julio Jones or Calvin Ridley.

3) A shambles of an O-Line.

But if you’re grateful to have a QB who has helmed an offense over the last 8 years that has on average finished 13th in PPG despite all that’s been invested on that side of the ball...you are the definition of  an Atlanta Fan.  Thankful for the drippings of the successful while propping up failure as an attribute.

I have higher standards.

I brought up Donald and that the fans appreciate him and he isn’t near as good as Ryan.  I never brought up wins or losses as it’s a team stat.  Scoring points is also a team stat.  I don’t think Ryan is void of blame or doesn’t have his faults.  But he isn’t the one holding this offense, or team back.

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1 minute ago, ThemDarnFalconsBoy! said:

Exactly and nothing was accomplished then. The backloading of his contract begins now. Unless he restructures.

I do agree that if Matt Ryan is selfless and gives a **** about his team then he should be willing to restructure in the best interest of his team and his chances of winning a Superbowl. This team needs a'lot of help on defense and the offensive line still. We can draft a good RB easily so I'm not too worried about that. As much money as he makes I don't think it would impact his lifestyle much.

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