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Why Taking a QB at #4 Won’t...and Shouldn’t...Happen


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2 hours ago, Rings said:

Flacco was garbage, the defense won the Super Bowl, same when Dilferbwas a “Super Bowl Winnjng QB”.  They also traded back into the first to take Jackson at 32 overall, not 4.  

Fact still remains that they thought Lamar Jackson was the best player in the draft at 32 and they had the draft capital to go up and get him.  And Flacco was not garbage when they won that Super Bowl.  I know you'd like to see what this team could do if you give Matt Ryan a run game, a more consistent o-line, and a better defense but that doesn't mean you pass on a QB at the 4th spot in the draft.  Both can be done.  And even in the scenario we take a QB at 4 and Matt Ryan returns to MVP form for the next 2-3 years a young 1st round QB is a valuable asset and gives you way more options to make your team better than a LB or a DE taken at the same draft slot.  Unless Penei Sewell is there I wouldn't even consider dosing anything other than a QB.

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I would love it if Fields is available at #4. I wouldn't be mad if we took him, but I would rather someone want him so bad that they practically give us half their picks in '21 and another first rounder in '22. I hope we rake someone over the coals for him. I don't really see it happening, but wishful thinking at its best.

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9 hours ago, Rings said:

1) You draft a QB when your current QB is bad...ours isn’t.

2) You draft a QB when your QB is ending his career...ours isn’t.

3) You draft a QB so you can take advantage of the rookie wage scale and save a ton of money for five years and build around him...we are still paying Ryan so that isn’t a thing, and we have no money to surround that person with talent.

4) The flawed logic of “we won’t be drafting this high in a long time we we have to take our QB of the future”. This is wrong for two reasons.  QBs taken in the top five have been less successful then the rest of the fist round, and that includes trade ups so it isn’t always bad teams,  second, and most importantly, if we are going to be drafting later the next few years, that means we are winning...with Matt Ryan...so we don’t need a QB right now.

5) Our offense will look night and day better once DK is gone.  He made everyone on offense, including Ryan, look worse than they are.

6) We gave up 44 points today, had a fluke INT and they took a knee on our side of the field, and some think QB is the problem.

It blows my mind that Jets fans fight for Sam Darnold who has accomplished nothing and this fan base is so blind they want to flush Ryan down the toilet.  I am at the point where I almost want it to happen so I can call every person on here out when the grass isn’t greener and they realize Ryan is the best QB this franchise has ever had and for some reason people did nothing but **** on him his whole career, mainly because they have no clue what they are talking about.

Sorry sir but you need to understand this is  only your opinion. You are not the one making the decisions.... And we'll see...

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Our only successful course on offense that is consistently working with Matt Ryan is short distance pass to one of 2 receivers. We have no deep game, no running game, no TE game and no QB mobility. I love everything that Ryan has done here for the team and city but his game, his decision making his declining. That doesn’t mean he can’t play next year. It means we’re not getting more TD or more 3rd down conversions next year just for hiring a new coach.

So from my perspective as imaginary GM on my couch we can draft/trade 2 top 15 running backs, 2-3 linemen and one of those needs to be an all pro center, a replacement for Julio or a sports psychologist so he isn’t ‘hurt’ if we lose, a better OC with a scheme we can process in preseason so we don’t figure it out by losing division games, engage Hurst more which Jones and Ridley won’t like, all for no change in our cost structure. 
Or we can accomplish he same with a more flexible mobile QB who can hit the deeps like Fields or Ehlinger or Purdy on a rookie contract. I don’t pretend Lawrence will be available. 
Look, all this takes time. So do we really wait until Ryan is done before we draft the future?  Would you fire your pilot before you land the plane?  Pick a kid we can build around and gradually mold the system around him so when Ryan sings his last song the next guy can step in. 
I have no doubt Ryan’s our guy in 2021.  But he’s not immune to aging. 

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13 minutes ago, Em_Jae20 said:

Fact still remains that they thought Lamar Jackson was the best player in the draft at 32 and they had the draft capital to go up and get him.  And Flacco was not garbage when they won that Super Bowl.  I know you'd like to see what this team could do if you give Matt Ryan a run game, a more consistent o-line, and a better defense but that doesn't mean you pass on a QB at the 4th spot in the draft.  Both can be done.  And even in the scenario we take a QB at 4 and Matt Ryan returns to MVP form for the next 2-3 years a young 1st round QB is a valuable asset and gives you way more options to make your team better than a LB or a DE taken at the same draft slot.  Unless Penei Sewell is there I wouldn't even consider dosing anything other than a QB.

So you completely waste half of the entire reason to draft a rookie contract in the first place....the very cheap contact....sounds like a winning plan. You'll be *****ing about fields making too much in no time

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2 hours ago, joeyg2033 said:

Give... It.... Up already with Ryan leading this team to a SB. The only time he had a chance to win... he lost. He is a statue. Haven't you noticed the scaffolding built around him for refurbishing? He's 36 and not the future of this team. He gets you time to transition to the next phase in this rebuild. And it starts with either Fields or Wilson. 

Ok.  Cool story.  We shall see.

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6 hours ago, WhiskeyBruh said:

I agree with everything you said OP. Matt Ryan is great. I ride for him all day every day, but I just feel like we need a change of pace. Something to get excited about. We've been so bad, so long, I (like many others) just need something new to cheer for. I'm all for taking a Fields (if we can get him) and let him learn for 2 years under Ice.

That being said, I acknowledge that our defense is 100% the problem and always has been. They're terrible and pretty much all need to be replaced outside of maybe Foye and Grady.

Defense 100% the problem? Put down the Whiskey Bruh.

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49 minutes ago, CraigSmackDaddy said:

Well that’s just it isn’t it... some feel Ryan has more left in the tank.  **** at least he’s on the field.  I love Julio and would hate to see him in another uni but it doesn’t matter how good he is if he’s always injured.  Can you honestly tell me that you think he’ll play all 16 games next season?  With that said, I don’t trade or release him due to the cap hit either at least not until post 6-1-22.   
 

I’ve said it multiple times now but will say it again, I don’t think we should draft a QB at # 4 but if we do I’m not gonna be mad.  I at least get the reasoning.  We need help on defense and need a running game far more than a new QB though.  You draft a QB and don’t fix the defense and still have no running game and this team won’t even be competitive with Lawrence or Fields.  I’d bet my savings on that!  If you wanna setup the next starting QB for the Falcons then spend these high picks this year on defense, RB, and a left guard.  If Ryan is bad as some of you say then we’ll be drafting high again next year to take that mobile QB you’re clamoring for.  

I understanding your reasoning but who is there on Defense or at RB that you think we should with the 4th pick. Surtain not sure in my eye is good enough to warrant that pick but I do want to see him in the National Championship Game, because last year LSU torched him something bad.  I hear some here have mentioned Parsons but we have that type of player already with Debo, Oluakon and Walker. The DEs out of Michigan, Pittsburgh doesn't warrant drafting that high. The kid from Georgia RB for Ohio State (Sermon) probably is the #3 back in this draft and he will be there in 2nd or 3rd, Travis from Clemson will be there in the 2nd. 

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35 minutes ago, celtiksage said:

I would love it if Fields is available at #4. I wouldn't be mad if we took him, but I would rather someone want him so bad that they practically give us half their picks in '21 and another first rounder in '22. I hope we rake someone over the coals for him. I don't really see it happening, but wishful thinking at its best.

The dream scenario.  

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18 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

So you completely waste half of the entire reason to draft a rookie contract in the first place....the very cheap contact....sounds like a winning plan. You'll be *****ing about fields making too much in no time

Try not to lump me in with some of the people who complain about how much a professional athlete makes, that's not me and you won't find me saying that in any of my posts.  It wouldn't be a waste because you're looking at it as if he doesn't play the pick is a waste.  The way I see it if you still have the rights to him you have assets and options.  If Matt plays well and we win and you don't want him trade him and get great value in return.  If Matt bombs (which I don't think he will) you have his replacement.  This isn't 2001 anymore, teams need really good QB play to consistently win and win in the playoffs, why try to do that with only one guy.  If you have a great receiver and have a shot at another one you grab him, same with cornerback, same with defensive end, etc. and in this NFL QBs should be thought of the same way.  Even if he doesn't play as valued as the position of QB is someone will be willing to give up capital for him.

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3 minutes ago, Em_Jae20 said:

Try not to lump me in with some of the people who complain about how much a professional athlete makes, that's not me and you won't find me saying that in any of my posts.  It wouldn't be a waste because you're looking at it as if he doesn't play the pick is a waste.  The way I see it if you still have the rights to him you have assets and options.  If Matt plays well and we win and you don't want him trade him and get great value in return.  If Matt bombs (which I don't think he will) you have his replacement.  This isn't 2001 anymore, teams need really good QB play to consistently win and win in the playoffs, why try to do that with only one guy.  If you have a great receiver and have a shot at another one you grab him, same with cornerback, same with defensive end, etc. and in this NFL QBs should be thought of the same way.  Even if he doesn't play as valued as the position of QB is someone will be willing to give up capital for him.

Most recent super bowls have been won by qbs on rookie contracts. You're wasting a big portion of that window. Either trade matt and julio and take a qb and completely rebuild or don't do it at all. If we attempt some half assed rebuild we will be stuck in football purgatory. 

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10 hours ago, ThemDarnFalconsBoy! said:

So you think we'll win a Super Bowl with Matt Ryan?

This should have ended the thread. Ryan is on a 3 year deal that takes him to his age 38 season. As the team is constructed now, this defense has too many holes and we don't have a starting caliber RB. We are lacking a GM, OC, and HC. So you have to write off year one due to learning mistakes and he will have 1-2 years to win his lombardi. I really doubt that happens. 

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2 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Most recent super bowls have been won by qbs on rookie contracts. You're wasting a big portion of that window. Either trade matt and julio and take a qb and completely rebuild or don't do it at all. If we attempt some half assed rebuild we will be stuck in football purgatory. 

I understand that way of thinking but each team's situation is different.  The Patriots won 2 Lombardi Trophies with the guy that was suppose to replace Tom Brady, Denver won one and made it to another with an expensive QB, San Fran made it with an expensive QB, as did we.  Each team's situation is different.  And I think we are a team in a very unique place that has argueably more talent than any team drafting around us and a QB, whether he plays next year or not gives us the best chance to win next year and beyond.  I mean its not like the number 4 pick is our only chance to add talent to this team.  We still have 6 other picks and free agency

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25 minutes ago, QBat3 said:

He could easily be the next Tua, or Haskins. 

Or he could be the next Mahomes or Manning. It could go either way. I can tell you even if Fields turns out to be a bust he is not like Haskins. Fields is a smart kid. 

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9 minutes ago, FalconinPA said:

Or he could be the next Mahomes or Manning. It could go either way. I can tell you even if Fields turns out to be a bust he is not like Haskins. Fields is a smart kid. 

True, I just think Wilson is much more polished, and processes the game a little faster. This QB draft in some ways reminds me of last year's class. 

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Don’t forget if Ryan gets injured playing who’s there to fill in and keep the team in a winning position If they improve? I really don’t think Schaub is that guy. Also if they could move Ryan and free up all that money I really don’t think that’s a hard decision and Ryan would be traded to another team assuming they could get there guy And really believed in him.

i believe there are a few guys that could end up being franchise caliber qbs And very good but it all comes down to development look at josh Allen and Mitchell Trebisky but have a lot of talent and I believe Allen has had much better coaching and players surrounding him not saying trebiskey couldnt of been great But that gives you an idea plus if whoever you draft wasn’t the guy you expected after a season in your system it’s easy for you still to bank on Ryan vs being stuck with a QB like trebiskey.

i would take lance he’s only 20 and you can still compete with Ryan maybe even win if they were to get a great coach. now theres a chance you see no fall off and move Ryan next year for more draft picks and free up a ton of money to improve overall but maybe there a coach that can improve this current roster and win now one player won’t be the difference and a collection of rookie draft picks won’t make a difference next year either (I mean I guess they could get lucky but highly unlikely take Grady or jones neither one of those guys were expected to be all pros otherwise they would have gone in round one they would have taken Grady in the first if they knew he was going to be this good) 
 

I don’t think I’d jump to three to take a QB as there all good. but if there sold on fields,Wilson,lance or Lawrence if that somehow happened with Any of them Being franchise guys I believe they all can be if devolved And I’d say fields and Lawrence are ready now lance and Wilson may need time. I feel Wilson has the most upside Huge arm and can play in the pocket plays with anticipation And can play On the run and throw off multiple platforms and would be best in a west coast style offense reminds me of Rodgers maybe not quite as accurate and I’d put lance right behind him.(and I’m not saying Lawrence isn’t the best of the bunch I just think he such a sure thing you don’t pass on him Fields is more developed in what he can do at this point and I’d take him second) 

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11 minutes ago, FalconinPA said:

Or he could be the next Mahomes or Manning. It could go either way. I can tell you even if Fields turns out to be a bust he is not like Haskins. Fields is a smart kid. 

Fields also shows leadership and wants to win not just there to play it means something to him I can live with draft someone like that even if didn’t work out you know he’s going to put the time and work  in to be great

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3 hours ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

Winning Percentage 2018-2020

Matt Ryan - 37.5%
Sam Darnold - 35.1%

Now, you can be a Ryan fan and if that’s your gig, so be it.  But let’s understand that our grass over here has been brown for quite some time.

Wins are a team stat, not a QB stat.  If you have watched any Jets games and think Darnold is anywhere close to Ryan you are clueless.  That said Gase is hot garbage so I’m sure he could be better, but the difference is we have never seen a good version of him in the pros, we have with Ryan.  People want to chalk everything up to age like they did with Free last year, I think everyone will look magically younger next year when Dirk isn’t here.

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2 hours ago, SavedByGrace1221 said:

Sorry sir but you need to understand this is  only your opinion. You are not the one making the decisions.... And we'll see...

You mean I’m not the GM?  Thanks for letting me know...appreciate it.

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1 hour ago, Faithful Falcon said:

Defense 100% the problem? Put down the Whiskey Bruh.

Haha well played.  I see what you did there.  

In my opinion it’s the bigger problem personnel wise.  I think once Quinn was fired that staff did a good job getting those guys to over achieve.  While I feel the opposite is true for the offense, I think Dirk had them greatly under achieving.  We will see with the new staff how much of that is true.

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5 hours ago, Rings said:

I want to see him in an offense from this century and see what he has left, people here love to act like he fell off a cliff and he didn’t.

Honestly, many of those people have been itching to get rid of Matt since the day he was drafted. It has nothing to do with his performance. It's just some sort of irrational personal thing with no basis in reality.

 

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5 hours ago, Rings said:

Love was taken at 26 overall, not 4.  Love hasn’t seen the field to my knowledge, so I don’t know how that helps the argument.  It may be a good example in a few years but right now it looks like a wasted pick because Rodgers is playing lights out.  What if they had taken an impact player on offense or defense instead?  
 

I never said we shouldn’t take a QB at all in April, but we shouldn’t take one at 4 overall.  Also, Ryan cap hit has been minimal compared to other teams with great defenses the last few years, so that isn’t the reason our defense sucks.  The defense literally got better when they fired the head coach.  Did Ryan’s cap hit get smaller when Quinn got fired to make this happen?  Coaching is by far the biggest reason this team struggled.  


I agree it’s time to start thinking about the future after Ryan, but we also have to fix LG, C, RB, CB, S, both EDGE spots and we need depth all over so we don’t have practice squad quality people seeing the field like we have the last few years.  We have to recoup picks TD threw away to trade up so many time in the first round.  I’d feel much better if they traded back and added a couple extra picks to help address those roles because we won’t have money in free agency to do anything with.  If they drop back to middle of the first or late first and then take a QB, I’m good with it, because we will have gotten multiple other picks to address needs that will help in 2021.

Boom. Exactly. Could Rodgers have suddenly bought into the scheme he didn’t like at first last year? Sure.

Matt has always been a guy trying to buy into what we do. Get a QB for backup and insurance but going all in at just any QB at 4 would be so dumb. We waste their rookie pay scale already. IF you say “we can trust new GM/HC to build and coaching a winner?” Then why the H E DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS are you so eager to wipe Ryan away? Rodgers was average overall from 2015-2019 play to play, but put him in year 2 of the offense Ryan won MVP? I rest my case. The system year 2 for that entire offense, having a run game and a decent defense is why they are a buzzsaw once again. Rodgers hasn’t been at this level for a season since 2016.

People just talk out of both sides of their face and really simply want Ryan gone. That’s as deep as it goes.

He = why we haven’t won a chip. And it’s the most boring hate parade parroted by supposed fans of this team. Couldn’t be me. You can win with this QB. Easily.

If you know football you see clearly what issues are on this team. QB ain’t it. And if your only merit is a new QB could win a SB...WITH a new REBUILT team? You just proved the point! Trade down from 4 instead of QB or bust. Get BPA every pick where we can after, but even BPA without a trade down can work because you have your QB.

Ryan’s cap hit was under $20M for 3 straight years and we blew 2017’s draft, 2018’s offseason with the OL over- investments heading into 2019 while also hiring DIRK back; while DQ was never going to take over DC and do HC well? Ulbrich was decent once we fired Quinn, but we regressed at OC 2 times under Quinn. Dirk was a deadweight that couldn’t protect a lead to save his life. 

Coaching and piss poor roster management by overpaying; draft or FA, on hit or miss is why we are in this roster shape. We just PAID Fowler to do NOTHING. We drafted DE high twice early in DQs tenure. Both sucked overall. Where is the scheme? Where is the building of a team being held in account?

“BuT rYaN nEeDs aLl WeApOnS!!!”

You call a late round Gage gadget draft pick being groomed into a WR a blame on Matt?

Ridley was clearly BPA in 2018. People want Julio gone but no plan to replace him? Yet won’t live with not drafting a QB?

A new QB would have some of a “rookie QB contract window to build around” wasted by 2 years alone! And you don’t even know if he is the guy; sitting 2 years maybe he learns and the new coach brings a valid and modern system. QB desperate teams overdraft and don’t have the team in place around them; unless maybe they do? (See: 49ers)...fleece a QB hungry team as much as you can and move down or take BPA.

Besides, just to be under the new salary cap by March’s Top51 deadline? Probably means Ryan is restructuring anyway! We kicked the can; true, trying to win but DQ era coaching staff and some questionable; at best, offseasons with TD trying to make it work backfired. Then, Covid hit. We are gonna either waste paying Ryan AND a rookie $6M more on the cap OR we kick Ryan’s cap and build for a 2 year cap revamp and hope situation improves (i.e. cap was gonna be in good shape until Covid revenue impacts and could rebound by 2022)

5 hours ago, DonOfThemBirds said:

 

If that's the case, then why has TD gotten the reputation that he has?

 

Some of his dealings may have not worked out, but the Falcons have been anything but conservative under TD.

 

Exactly. It’s actually funny to see the various attempts to define things away from fact by several posters because of narratives or what they want to do.

You sacrifice at minimum 2021 and 2022 for what? Maybe getting a QB of the future? When will posters learn you need to build a team and coaching matters? If the answer every year in the future is a new QB, just because the coaching sucks or the GM lost his mind...good luck staring at this same sitch in a few years even IF you land the QB.

If you BELIEVE the new regime is gonna be a clear upgrade to TD and DQ, why do you believe you CANT win with Matt? Let me guess...28-3? :lol: when the QB was arguably your best performing player that day. :rolleyes: Imagine if defense was anything average. One stop. Imagine if you could run the ball and eat clock. Imagine not doing either but being in position to go up 11 points with 3 minutes left...but opted for risky pass plays. :doh:

You MADE and SHOULD have won the SB with Ryan 4 years ago when the defense was GARBAGE. You downgraded at OC massively two times in a row and the defense never arrived that DQ was supposed to bring. One of only 4 teams to ever make a SB allowing 400 points. But Ryan can’t be built around?

Dumb.
 

5 hours ago, Rings said:

I agree with most of what you said, and I’m not against taking a shot on a guy for the future per say, just not at four.

Exactly. This mentality of over-drafting QBs is because NORMALLY QB hungry teams are only top 5.

Guess what? Texans would’ve had the #3 pick if they didn’t trade it. Is Watson worth building around? But Ryan must be 40 to these posters.

5 hours ago, abcranford2 said:

his point the whole time has been that we need multiple picks

Exactly. Lol

3 hours ago, Jesus said:

Follow the Saints plan.

Build a stout defense, improve the offensive line, find your running backs, and then anyone can play QB. Being solely reliant on their QB to win is what put them in a hole for several years. 

Wait...

Do you mean to tell me you need to build a team to win?

Couldn’t be TATF.

People want to recreate the drug that Mike Vick was. They don’t care about winning. You have your QB. Durable and physically the same as ever. Fix the coaching and roster building issues.

Why can’t we run the ball AT all, let alone with a lead?

Waiting.

Why can’t we defend a team? Who is to blame for paying Fowler for 3 sacks? Who is to blame for not getting safety with range to help the young corners? Why can’t we close games? Oh, Ryan just throw for more TDs but sorry you stuck with Dirk! :lol:

Nah, let’s throw a kid to the wolves and start blaming team later because a new regime clearly couldn’t build around a 36 year old QB! (Meanwhile 5 QBs older than Matt walking into the playoffs; dancing on your “logic”)

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