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Why Taking a QB at #4 Won’t...and Shouldn’t...Happen


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1) You draft a QB when your current QB is bad...ours isn’t. 2) You draft a QB when your QB is ending his career...ours isn’t. 3) You draft a QB so you can take advantage of the rookie wage s

I think our chance of winning one in the next three years is higher with Ryan than a QB we could take this year.  After that you take a QB that gives you a better chance the following five years than

With a better OC and a better defense, why couldn't we??

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23 hours ago, vanhino said:

Ryan doesn't make elite money compared to other starting quarterbacks. He is ranked 9th in salary and makes less than Carson Wentz, Kirk Cousins, and Jared Goff. 

 

The quarterback position is the most important on the field, which is why they are paid the most money. You can blame the Falcons front office, the front offices of other teams, the owners, Roger Goodell, and the sun rising in the east, but it won't change this fact. Good veteran starting quarterbacks cost a lot of money. The Falcons front office paid Ryan what they felt his market value was. I have no problem with that.

 

The Falcons don't need a miracle to turn around the D. They already have a new and capable DC and will draft help on defense. There will also be help regarding free agents. Like I have said before, this is the NFL, and things turn around quickly.

 

 

What you are saying in not only anarchronistic but a relative privation. A is not "not elite" because by comparison, it is less. Even if what you said is true, what Ryan makes is more than the majority of the league by far other than the tiny handful of peeps you mentioned. By definition it is elite. And even when not comparing Ryan to the league, even for QBs, Ryan is still one of the top players paid.

https://www.nfl.com/photos/nfl-s-biggest-contracts-for-2020

 

Only 9 other players rank ahead of him as far as contract. Saying that isn't elite because he is not being paid the most, is like claiming Oprah Winfrey isn't elite, because there are some people richer than she is.

 

Ryan is being paid in the top 10 players, regardless of position even though he is not a top 10 player in the NFL, even if you only limited it to QBs. His contract is not merited. He is a good player. Just unspectacular to warrant that kind of money.

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42 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

What you are saying in not only anarchronistic but a relative privation. A is not "not elite" because by comparison, it is less. Even if what you said is true, what Ryan makes is more than the majority of the league by far other than the tiny handful of peeps you mentioned. By definition it is elite. And even when not comparing Ryan to the league, even for QBs, Ryan is still one of the top players paid.

https://www.nfl.com/photos/nfl-s-biggest-contracts-for-2020

 

Only 9 other players rank ahead of him as far as contract. Saying that isn't elite because he is not being paid the most, is like claiming Oprah Winfrey isn't elite, because there are some people richer than she is.

 

Ryan is being paid in the top 10 players, regardless of position even though he is not a top 10 player in the NFL, even if you only limited it to QBs. His contract is not merited. He is a good player. Just unspectacular to warrant that kind of money.

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Matt Ryan's cap hit for the 2020 season was only 16th among QBs.

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On 3/5/2021 at 12:05 AM, Intellectually Honest said:

What you are saying in not only anarchronistic but a relative privation. A is not "not elite" because by comparison, it is less. Even if what you said is true, what Ryan makes is more than the majority of the league by far other than the tiny handful of peeps you mentioned. By definition it is elite. And even when not comparing Ryan to the league, even for QBs, Ryan is still one of the top players paid.

https://www.nfl.com/photos/nfl-s-biggest-contracts-for-2020

 

Only 9 other players rank ahead of him as far as contract. Saying that isn't elite because he is not being paid the most, is like claiming Oprah Winfrey isn't elite, because there are some people richer than she is.

 

Ryan is being paid in the top 10 players, regardless of position even though he is not a top 10 player in the NFL, even if you only limited it to QBs. His contract is not merited. He is a good player. Just unspectacular to warrant that kind of money.

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Ryan makes a lot of money, no doubt about it. My point is that there are worse starting QBs in the league that make more money than him. Comparisons are made all of the time. If you don't like them, that's your choice.

 

You've written eight paragraphs since my question to you and still haven't answered it. You blame the Falcons front office for Ryan's contract that he signed in May 2018. Ryan was the league MVP in 2016 and the #2 ranked QB in the league in 2017. I will ask you yet again (for the second time). What should the Falcons front office have done with Ryan in 2018??

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Falcons played 8 games against playoff teams last year. 3 against the sb teams, 2 against eventual sb champion. In 8 games they held the lead going into the 4th qtr only to have the other team come back to win. Convince me that this is a bad overall team or that ryan was even remotely the problem. Or even that one of the top 6 ranked qb's would have changed the outcome.

 

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On 3/4/2021 at 11:05 PM, Intellectually Honest said:

What you are saying in not only anarchronistic but a relative privation. A is not "not elite" because by comparison, it is less. Even if what you said is true, what Ryan makes is more than the majority of the league by far other than the tiny handful of peeps you mentioned. By definition it is elite. And even when not comparing Ryan to the league, even for QBs, Ryan is still one of the top players paid.

https://www.nfl.com/photos/nfl-s-biggest-contracts-for-2020

 

Only 9 other players rank ahead of him as far as contract. Saying that isn't elite because he is not being paid the most, is like claiming Oprah Winfrey isn't elite, because there are some people richer than she is.

 

Ryan is being paid in the top 10 players, regardless of position even though he is not a top 10 player in the NFL, even if you only limited it to QBs. His contract is not merited. He is a good player. Just unspectacular to warrant that kind of money.

.

 

But what I really enjoy the most is the satisfaction of knowing MR deserves every penny he’s been given & every cent he’ll earn today & in the future. 
Really, the only thing more satisfying to me is the fact that haters like you have no control whatsoever over the matter & are relegated to posting up desperate lies as if our QB hasn’t earned his money or whether he deserves it or not. Your attitude about the matter is as relevant as the undigested bit of steak in MR’s intestine that he’s about to flush down the toilet this morning along with your hollow words about him.

LOL, no matter what happens in the draft, MR will always be the greatest QB in franchise history & one of the top tier QB’s in the league.  We’ve been richly blessed to have him as the leader of our team & will be fondly thought of in NFL circles.  And there you’ll be. An irrelevant hater whose voice was never more than a pesky gnat flying around the face of the mighty lion. 

I quite enjoy seeing how MR’s paycheck bothers you. Nobody in this world cares whether you approve of his pay or not.  As MR sits at his desk this evening balancing his checkbook, a tiny little gnat gravitates toward the glow of the lamp and... splat! Matt proceeds to retrieve a Kleenex, wiping off the remains of the gnat while observing the large balance left in his checking account. Audibly he chuckles to himself as he rises from his desk throwing the cruddy tissue in the trash wondering if there’s a chance his boys are asleep so he can get a piece tonight.  :D

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31 minutes ago, Williamb said:

Falcons played 8 games against playoff teams last year. 3 against the sb teams, 2 against eventual sb champion. In 8 games they held the lead going into the 4th qtr only to have the other team come back to win. Convince me that this is a bad overall team or that ryan was even remotely the problem. Or even that one of the top 6 ranked qb's would have changed the outcome.

 

That's good info...

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2 hours ago, RING OF HONOR said:

That's good info...

Thnx man. Just got curious when i ran across #2 strength of schedule stat. I know that our team at times looked like little league (mainly on defense), but, when they are consistently in 3rd and 1-2 yards and pass because no one can carry the rock that extra for a 1st, or consistently sitting at 3rd and 11 because of stupid calls on 1st and 2nd I can't cast blame on the guy getting the snap. We had absolutely no run game and a creaton for an oc.

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4 hours ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

But what I really enjoy the most is the satisfaction of knowing MR deserves every penny he’s been given & every cent he’ll earn today & in the future. 
Really, the only thing more satisfying to me is the fact that haters like you have no control whatsoever over the matter & are relegated to posting up desperate lies as if our QB hasn’t earned his money or whether he deserves it or not. Your attitude about the matter is as relevant as the undigested bit of steak in MR’s intestine that he’s about to flush down the toilet this morning along with your hollow words about him.

LOL, no matter what happens in the draft, MR will always be the greatest QB in franchise history & one of the top tier QB’s in the league.  We’ve been richly blessed to have him as the leader of our team & will be fondly thought of in NFL circles.  And there you’ll be. An irrelevant hater whose voice was never more than a pesky gnat flying around the face of the mighty lion. 

I quite enjoy seeing how MR’s paycheck bothers you. Nobody in this world cares whether you approve of his pay or not.  As MR sits at his desk this evening balancing his checkbook, a tiny little gnat gravitates toward the glow of the lamp and... splat! Matt proceeds to retrieve a Kleenex, wiping off the remains of the gnat while observing the large balance left in his checking account. Audibly he chuckles to himself as he rises from his desk throwing the cruddy tissue in the trash wondering if there’s a chance his boys are asleep so he can get a piece tonight.  :D

Yep. Blows my mind that a guy who will finish his NFL career top 10 all-time in yards and touchdown passes when he hangs it up and has one of the best individual playoff stat lines of all-time is such a bum.

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On 3/6/2021 at 10:47 AM, HASHBROWN3 said:

But what I really enjoy the most is the satisfaction of knowing MR deserves every penny he’s been given & every cent he’ll earn today & in the future. 
Really, the only thing more satisfying to me is the fact that haters like you have no control whatsoever over the matter & are relegated to posting up desperate lies as if our QB hasn’t earned his money or whether he deserves it or not. Your attitude about the matter is as relevant as the undigested bit of steak in MR’s intestine that he’s about to flush down the toilet this morning along with your hollow words about him.

LOL, no matter what happens in the draft, MR will always be the greatest QB in franchise history & one of the top tier QB’s in the league.  We’ve been richly blessed to have him as the leader of our team & will be fondly thought of in NFL circles.  And there you’ll be. An irrelevant hater whose voice was never more than a pesky gnat flying around the face of the mighty lion. 

I quite enjoy seeing how MR’s paycheck bothers you. Nobody in this world cares whether you approve of his pay or not.  As MR sits at his desk this evening balancing his checkbook, a tiny little gnat gravitates toward the glow of the lamp and... splat! Matt proceeds to retrieve a Kleenex, wiping off the remains of the gnat while observing the large balance left in his checking account. Audibly he chuckles to himself as he rises from his desk throwing the cruddy tissue in the trash wondering if there’s a chance his boys are asleep so he can get a piece tonight.  :D

Well it bothers you indirectly. When the Falcons pile up losses and don't have money to spend to upgrade the rest of the team as you are frustrated whey they are losing, it will be more apparent to you, IF you are honest. That is assuming of course, you want what is best for the Falcons, not just what is best for Matt Ryan.

 

But then again you are probably more of a Ryan fan than a Falcons fan. So maybe it won't.

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2 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Well it bothers you indirectly. When the Falcons pile up losses and don't have money to spend to upgrade the rest of the team as you are frustrated whey they are losing, it will be more apparent to you, IF you are honest. That is assuming of course, you want what is best for the Falcons, not just what is best for Matt Ryan.

 

But then again you are probably more of a Ryan fan than a Falcons fan. So maybe it won't.

Paying big bucks to ****ty free agents has a lot more to do with the team losing and having a bad cap situation than paying Matt Ryan does.

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On 3/6/2021 at 1:01 AM, vanhino said:

Ryan makes a lot of money, no doubt about it. My point is that there are worse starting QBs in the league that make more money than him. Comparisons are made all of the time. If you don't like them, that's your choice.

 

You've written eight paragraphs since my question to you and still haven't answered it. You blame the Falcons front office for Ryan's contract that he signed in May 2018. Ryan was the league MVP in 2016 and the #2 ranked QB in the league in 2017. I will ask you yet again (for the second time). What should the Falcons front office have done with Ryan in 2018??

Doesn't matter if worse QBs, in your opinion, make more money. Even if what you said was factual. Bad reactions of Team A doesn't make bad reactions of team B correct. It just means that the Falcons aren't the only team to over react to the QB market by over paying.

 

If it was me, I would have traded him. Ryan "elite" years are too few and far between. Given his value would be it's highest, like any trade, you want to sell high and buy low. I would have invested in a new QB since for ME, it's about the team, not just one player. So I would have traded him for picks. This isn't a slight on Ryan. Any of these QBs, save for a tiny few, don't deserve the team to invest that much into them given the cap situation. I am not claiming the trade would have worked.

 

You never know, but I think the risk is worth it especially when we already know that unless the QB is all world ON A CONSISTENT BASIS, the QB's talent alone won't lift a team that has gaping holes in it.

 I would apply this concept to any player the Falcons have. I don't worry about "superstars" or "elite" players on a team. For me it is the overall talent, not just the starting players but the bench. For me, a team is only as strong as it's weakest link. Especially when spending is applied to a cap.

 

I am not against Ryan making whatever money. It's really the cap. The cap is a problem created by the owners, which includes Blank, to give an excuse to limit what they spend on players.

 

If Ryan was making 100 million a year, it wouldn't bother me. But the cap does, and it effects how the resources of a team is distributed. The cap causes team to limit spending, and the QB market compounds the issue. That is further compounded by the Falcons overreacting.

 

Matt Ryan's contract bothers me ONLY in the sense that the Falcons don't have the wiggle room to improve the team let alone even go sideways as far as talent goes DUE TO THE CAP. No cap=no problem as far as Falcons spending whatever on whomever.

 

And it is not like the NFL has to have a salary cap. The owners can agree to get rid of it at any time.

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28 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

Paying big bucks to ****ty free agents has a lot more to do with the team losing and having a bad cap situation than paying Matt Ryan does.

I don't agree to having the team spend big bucks on free agents. What they can do is use the money to stockpile their bench with relatively inexpensive undervalued talent if they shop around. Plus as far as I see it, teams are still primarily built through the draft, which is why I would rather invest in the draft by trading players who are about to get fat contracts when their value is at it's peak.

But this goes back to the cap. Before the NFL salary cap, there were more dynasties, and it was based on teams willing to spend more on talent and to pay them to keep them there.

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On 1/4/2021 at 1:33 AM, jetpac said:

Lol all this trading back, as if we are goi Nd to select a handful of impact players. Ask Cleveland how that went with the Julio trade. 

These trades can work both ways or one way and not the other.  Yes, the browns screwed up those picks and the Falcons gave up a lot. But in turn, the Falcons got a HOF WR and frankly, one of the greatest of all times. 

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On 3/17/2021 at 8:56 AM, Intellectually Honest said:

Doesn't matter if worse QBs, in your opinion, make more money. Even if what you said was factual. Bad reactions of Team A doesn't make bad reactions of team B correct. It just means that the Falcons aren't the only team to over react to the QB market by over paying.

 

If it was me, I would have traded him. Ryan "elite" years are too few and far between. Given his value would be it's highest, like any trade, you want to sell high and buy low. I would have invested in a new QB since for ME, it's about the team, not just one player. So I would have traded him for picks. This isn't a slight on Ryan. Any of these QBs, save for a tiny few, don't deserve the team to invest that much into them given the cap situation. I am not claiming the trade would have worked.

 

You never know, but I think the risk is worth it especially when we already know that unless the QB is all world ON A CONSISTENT BASIS, the QB's talent alone won't lift a team that has gaping holes in it.

 I would apply this concept to any player the Falcons have. I don't worry about "superstars" or "elite" players on a team. For me it is the overall talent, not just the starting players but the bench. For me, a team is only as strong as it's weakest link. Especially when spending is applied to a cap.

 

I am not against Ryan making whatever money. It's really the cap. The cap is a problem created by the owners, which includes Blank, to give an excuse to limit what they spend on players.

 

If Ryan was making 100 million a year, it wouldn't bother me. But the cap does, and it effects how the resources of a team is distributed. The cap causes team to limit spending, and the QB market compounds the issue. That is further compounded by the Falcons overreacting.

 

Matt Ryan's contract bothers me ONLY in the sense that the Falcons don't have the wiggle room to improve the team let alone even go sideways as far as talent goes DUE TO THE CAP. No cap=no problem as far as Falcons spending whatever on whomever.

 

And it is not like the NFL has to have a salary cap. The owners can agree to get rid of it at any time.

The Falcons didn't overpay for Ryan. They paid him what his market value was at the time. Consistently good to great starting QBs like him don't grow on trees. Ask the Jets, Dolphins, Browns, Bengals, Bears, and Jaguars.

Matt Ryan was the league MVP in 2016 and was the #2 rated QB in 2017. You say that his elite years are few and far between? Last time that I checked, those were back to back years. 

You are quick to blame the Falcons front office, salary cap, and the owners, but aren't specific as to who the QB should have been. You think that the Falcons should have traded Ryan after two fantastic years. Ok, who exactly should have been the starting QB after Ryan was traded? Don't say it should have been a draft pick, give me a specific name. 

The salary cap has been in place in the NFL since 1994. Arthur Blank wasn't involved with the NFL at all back then and shares absolutely no blame for the cap. The cap is one of the rules of the league and Blank has to abide by it. A majority of the owners may possibly be able to eliminate the cap if they want to, but not one owner. Blank could shout from the mountain tops about how he hates the cap and thinks more money should be spent on Falcons players. Would it make a difference in getting the cap removed? Nope.

 

 

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1 hour ago, vanhino said:

The Falcons didn't overpay for Ryan. They paid him what his market value was at the time. Consistently good to great starting QBs like him don't grow on trees. Ask the Jets, Dolphins, Browns, Bengals, Bears, and Jaguars.

Matt Ryan was the league MVP in 2016 and was the #2 rated QB in 2017. You say that his elite years are few and far between? Last time that I checked, those were back to back years. 

You are quick to blame the Falcons front office, salary cap, and the owners, but aren't specific as to who the QB should have been. You think that the Falcons should have traded Ryan after two fantastic years. Ok, who exactly should have been the starting QB after Ryan was traded? Don't say it should have been a draft pick, give me a specific name. 

The salary cap has been in place in the NFL since 1994. Arthur Blank wasn't involved with the NFL at all back then and shares absolutely no blame for the cap. The cap is one of the rules of the league and Blank has to abide by it. A majority of the owners may possibly be able to eliminate the cap if they want to, but not one owner. Blank could shout from the mountain tops about how he hates the cap and thinks more money should be spent on Falcons players. Would it make a difference in getting the cap removed? Nope.

 

 

You ignored everything I said so there is no reason for me to continue this conversation.

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On 3/6/2021 at 10:18 AM, Williamb said:

Falcons played 8 games against playoff teams last year. 3 against the sb teams, 2 against eventual sb champion. In 8 games they held the lead going into the 4th qtr only to have the other team come back to win. Convince me that this is a bad overall team or that ryan was even remotely the problem. Or even that one of the top 6 ranked qb's would have changed the outcome.

 

I really do think that Ryan will be our QB for 3-4 more seasons.  He is in very good physical shape and has a good head on his shoulders.  

We might draft a QB this year, but I think not in the first round.  Our new HC ran a good offense with a QB from the scrap heap.  I get the feeling that he likes what he can get from Ryan.  

 

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On 3/20/2021 at 10:32 AM, etherdome said:

I really do think that Ryan will be our QB for 3-4 more seasons.  He is in very good physical shape and has a good head on his shoulders.  

We might draft a QB this year, but I think not in the first round.  Our new HC ran a good offense with a QB from the scrap heap.  I get the feeling that he likes what he can get from Ryan.  

 

Agree with you.  My feeling is that everything is going to plan so far.  

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On 1/4/2021 at 1:34 AM, FalconsIn2012 said:

To me it comes down to the evaluations.  If the new regime is in agreement that Fields or Wilson is a franchise QB, you draft him.  I mentioned it in another thread but it’s similar to the Saints heading into 2017.  They were picking 11th and tried to move up for Mahomes. Imagine if they were successful or drafted D. Watson over Lattimore.  Brees was still a Pro Bowl QB but their outlook would be much, much better right now.

If there is no agreement on a QB, trade out and stack top 100 picks.  This isn’t the year to draft a non-QB at #4

If they team wanted a QB this season being at #4 would be a prime spot, moving back a few spots would also land us one. But I don't think QB is their biggest concern right now.  Trading back and gobbling up more picks and filling our needs would seem to me the way to go.  Regardless, we are in an ideal spot to do either, for me I hope it is the latter.

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On 3/20/2021 at 10:32 AM, etherdome said:

I really do think that Ryan will be our QB for 3-4 more seasons.  He is in very good physical shape and has a good head on his shoulders.  

We might draft a QB this year, but I think not in the first round.  Our new HC ran a good offense with a QB from the scrap heap.  I get the feeling that he likes what he can get from Ryan.  

 

Ice has only missed 2 games in 13 seasons. Like you said he is in great shape and he takes care of himself. His durability in the face of bad OLs over the years is amazing. He is tougher than many give him credit for. 

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