Jump to content

Would you be upset with a full on 2019 style Dolphins rebuild this off-season?


Recommended Posts

OK, so this seems to be confusing a lot of people, and there's a lot of wrong takes on here, and this seems to be a big sticking point for all this so, here are every cap hit for the Falcons in 2021 over 5 million, and how the cap would be affected if they were released or traded

From smallest cap hit to largest

Allen Bailey 6.125 cap hit, 1.625 guaranteed

Release or trade: 6 mil cap savings

James Carpenter 6,458,333 cap hit, 2,416,668 guaranteed

Release or trade: 4,041,665 cap savings

Ricardo Allen 8.375 cap hit, 2.125 guaranteed

Release or trade: 6.25 cap savings

Deion Jones 12.63 cap hit, 11.85 mil guaranteed

Release: Before 5th day of league year 780,000 cap savings, After 7,420,000 cap increase

Trade: Regardless 780,000 cap savings

Dante Fowler 18,666,666 cap hit, 15,333,334 guaranteed

Release:  Before 5th day of league year 3,333,332 cap savings, After 3,666,668 cap increase

Trade: Regardless 9,333,332 cap savings

Jake Matthews 20,222,950 cap hit, 18,879,650 guaranteed

Release or trade: 1,343,300 cap savings

Grady Jarrett (lol) 20.833 mil cap hit, 19.166 mil guaranteed

Release: 1,667,000 cap savings

Trade: 6,167,000 cap savings

Julio Jones 23.05 mil cap hit, 38.55 mil guaranteed

Release: 15.5 mil cap increase

Trade: 200,000 cap increase

Matt Ryan 40,912,500 cap hit, 49,937,500 guaranteed

Release: 9.025 mil cap increase

Trade: 3.525 cap increase

 

Feel free to ask any questions you like, but suffice it to say , the differences in trade vs release usually stem from guaranteed salary which the acquiring team would take on.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/cap/2021/

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 150
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I know there are pretty much two camps on this board. The draft a QB camp and the roll with Ryan camp. Well I'm curious as to how both camps would feel about something similar to this. The Dolphins tr

I'd rather see us make an attempt at least instead of just salting away the rest of Matt and Julios careers with nothing to show for it. If we don't think we can win in the next 2 years it's in everyb

It could work, it could blow up in our faces and we land a top 5 pick...oh wait. That's where we are now.

6 hours ago, thanat0s said:

Yes, there are teams with money. Are there teams that become instant SB contenders by adding Matt, while still having flexibility to build their roster? 
 

It’s wishful thinking to say New England or San Francisco, for instance, would use their mid-teens pick to acquire Matt rather than just drafting a QB at those spots and building around that guy. 
 

Guys who consider Matt washed up and desperately want to dump him are also the same ones thinking he’s worth tons on the trade market.
 

If he is still so effective as to warrant all that trade capital, why would the team trade him rather than build around him the next two years and then invest in a QB?

The entire argument makes zero logical sense. 

 

You would feel a franchise QB is available at #3 to replace him. It's simple. Ryan is 36. If you feel you can draft a franchise QB you take it all day long when your QB is at that age. 

People keep saying just find your guy later like QBs just grow on trees. 

The team acquiring would do this trade if they believe Ryan would turn them into superbowl contenders right away. Gives them a 3-4 year window to win with a top 10 QB. 

Why would they not just draft a guy with their 1st? Because you're assuming they'd actually llike a QB who would be available at that spot. Big assumption. Plus they may not want wait for that QB to develop. 

The logic behind a potential trade makes perfect sense. Although I doubt we'd get multiple 1st. More like a 1st + 2nd. 

Edited by Bobby.Digital
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Bobby.Digital said:

 

You would feel a franchise QB is available at #3 to replace him. It's simple. Ryan is 36. If you feel you can draft a franchise QB you take it all day long when your QB is at that age. 

People keep saying just find your guy later like QBs just grow on trees. 

The team acquiring would do this trade if they believe Ryan would turn them into superbowl contenders right away. Gives them a 3-4 year window to win with a top 10 QB. 

Why would they not just draft a guy with their 1st? Because you're assuming they'd actually llike a QB who would be available at that spot. Big assumption. Plus they may not want wait for that QB to develop. 

The logic behind a potential trade makes perfect sense. Although I doubt we'd get multiple 1st. More like a 1st + 2nd. 

What you typically find when drafting a QB in the top 5 is a bust that sets a team back years.

I’m not anxious to revisit that when I have a HOF QB performing at a high level, with years left in the tank. 
 

Look to the southwest. The Saints have had more than a few chances to ditch Brees for a new QB, but even through three straight losing seasons, and four of five years, they knew the best chance to win was building around an aging the HOF QB that they can rely on consistently.

If you want to talk Julio, fine. Solid WRs are a dime a dozen, and we are set with or without him. If you get some desperate team to hand you a late 1, use that on a developmental QB. 

Nothing positive will come from wrecking our cap and gutting the most important job in sports just to provide draft chatter. 

Folks might not like hearing it, but those are the facts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, thanat0s said:

What you typically find when drafting a QB in the top 5 is a bust that sets a team back years.

I’m not anxious to revisit that when I have a HOF QB performing at a high level, with years left in the tank. 
 

Look to the southwest. The Saints have had more than a few chances to ditch Brees for a new QB, but even through three straight losing seasons, and four of five years, they knew the best chance to win was building around an aging the HOF QB that they can rely on consistently.

If you want to talk Julio, fine. Solid WRs are a dime a dozen, and we are set with or without him. If you get some desperate team to hand you a late 1, use that on a developmental QB. 

Nothing positive will come from wrecking our cap and gutting the most important job in sports just to provide draft chatter. 

Folks might not like hearing it, but those are the facts.

Again you only make this move if you're confident that the guy you draft is someone who can and will be a franchise QB.

It seems like you've already made up your mind that if we draft a QB he will bust.

Even your rational doesn't make sense. Matt is 36, the window to win with him isnt that big. Why would we trade the best player on offense just to draft a development QB with that pick? Either you're all in with Matt or you're not. 

You're telling me the Saints made the right decision by drafting Marcus Davenport over Lamar Jackson? The Saints franchise would be so much better off with Lamar Jackson at QB than Drew atm. This isn't even taking in the cap implications. 

There's always the potential for a decision not to work out. But scared money don't make money.

Imagine you passed on a Justin Herbert, Pat Mahomes, DeShaun Watson, Josh Allen, Kyler Murray - All QBs drafted in the top 15 within the last 3 years - for a 36 year old good but not elite QB. 

It seems like most of the people who think trading Matt is insane can't even fathom the possibility that the QB we could draft may end up being better than Matt ever was. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, thanat0s said:

Oh, I wasn’t knocking the op. I was speaking specifically about the post I was responding to.
 

Mainly, I’d put it this way. If Matt had exactly the same stats the last three years as he had, and our defense was top 10, we’d have been in the playoff ever single year, possibly back in the SB, and no one would be asking for his head.
 

IMO, we have a 1-3 year window here where we can make another run, if we bolster the defensive roster and install the right offense this offseason.

Blowing it up for the **** of it seems short sighted to me. This team is already hemorrhaging fans. 2-3 more years of losing won’t help that. 

Easiest way to fix the Falcons ?  Fix the O Line, Fix the D Line, then get lucky in the mid to late rounds with a RB and secondary help.  Smart trades can help. No trades for Matt and Julio............well maybe Julio. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bobby.Digital said:

Again you only make this move if you're confident that the guy you draft is someone who can and will be a franchise QB.

It seems like you've already made up your mind that if we draft a QB he will bust.

Even your rational doesn't make sense. Matt is 36, the window to win with him isnt that big. Why would we trade the best player on offense just to draft a development QB with that pick? Either you're all in with Matt or you're not. 

You're telling me the Saints made the right decision by drafting Marcus Davenport over Lamar Jackson? The Saints franchise would be so much better off with Lamar Jackson at QB than Drew atm. This isn't even taking in the cap implications. 

There's always the potential for a decision not to work out. But scared money don't make money.

Imagine you passed on a Justin Herbert, Pat Mahomes, DeShaun Watson, Josh Allen, Kyler Murray - All QBs drafted in the top 15 within the last 3 years - for a 36 year old good but not elite QB. 

It seems like most of the people who think trading Matt is insane can't even fathom the possibility that the QB we could draft may end up being better than Matt ever was. 

Jones isn’t even the best WR on this team anymore, much less the best player. That’s still Matt. 
 

I say it’s very likely a high pick QB will be a bust because most of them are. It is rare to find a Ryan in the draft. It’s also incredibly damaging to a team because they are the catalyst for literally everything that happens on the field. 
 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Hard Case said:

Easiest way to fix the Falcons ?  Fix the O Line, Fix the D Line, then get lucky in the mid to late rounds with a RB and secondary help.  Smart trades can help. No trades for Matt and Julio............well maybe Julio. 

How to you fix these things while being over the cap? We only have 6 draft picks. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you wanted to blow the team up, NE needs a QB and has 61 mil in cap space, according to OTC. That means that they could take some of the dead money for Ryan, along with his salary. I'm sure you can pass on dead money to a new team, it's just that no one ever wants to do that. If NE absorbs 25-30 mil of the dead money along with Ryan's salary, then the trade becomes possible. 

I know people were scoffing at the idea of a player paying his bonus back and his new team giving that money back to him in  new contract, but, why not? Ryan has about 75 of unguaranteed money left on his deal, and about 42 mil of dead money in bonuses. Ryan gives the falcons 40 mil back, NE trades for him, tears up his contract, writes him another one for oh, say 125 mil over 4 years, with 70 mil guaranteed. Or Ryan gives the Falcons 20 mil, and gets a smaller deal from NE. It's rare a deal like this makes sense for everyone, but it might here.

NE does this, because Belichick's getting up there and wants another title before he goes, doesn't feel like he can wait on a young QB to mature, thinks he can win now with Ryan.
Falcons do it because they want to start fresh- New GM, new HC, new QB- grab a QB with the 4th pick, grab a defensive stud with the NE pick.
Ryan agrees to it because he's tired of beating his head against the wall and because playing with Belichick is the best chance he has for a ring.

If NE wins a Super Bowl with Ryan at the helm and the falcons get the QB right and win a couple of super bowls down the road, everybody wins.

Only makes sense if the new GM and new HC really do want to tear the house down to the studs and start over

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, thanat0s said:

To be fair, we don’t really know what the cap is at this point, ff. And there is always wiggle room.

I understand that, but we will still be over the cap even with the max projection of 200 mil happening. We have to shed one of these top contracts if we have any hope of improving over the next few seasons.

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

I understand that, but we will still be over the cap even with the max projection of 200 mil happening. We have to shed one of these top contracts if we have any hope of improving over the next few seasons.

There are several expiring contracts around here, too, that are easily replaced. 
 

I have always maintained that none of us on a message board has any real clue how bean counters on teams can make room for things they want to do. 
 

Fans look at websites about contracts and cap that aren’t in the know, either. It’s best to leave money matters to those whose job it is to manage it, because it’s just conjecture on everybody’s part. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

I understand that, but we will still be over the cap even with the max projection of 200 mil happening. We have to shed one of these top contracts if we have any hope of improving over the next few seasons.

Shedding their contract is not the only option. It is certainly <an> option. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, thanat0s said:

There are several expiring contracts around here, too, that are easily replaced. 
 

I have always maintained that none of us on a message board has any real clue how bean counters on teams can make room for things they want to do. 
 

Fans look at websites about contracts and cap that aren’t in the know, either. It’s best to leave money matters to those whose job it is to manage it, because it’s just conjecture on everybody’s part. 

It's usually through restructures that space is created. Most fans don't really understand how they work. Our problem is that we have like 80% of our 2022 cap taken up already with like 16 contracts so it makes restructures difficult. You cannot maintain as many top heavy contracts as we have. You just can't.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lornoth said:

Here's the thing: For every Dolphins style full rebuild there's a dozen Jets, Browns, Texans, or Jaguars style full rebuilds. 

Raiders come to mind; had a lot of bad contracts, cut everybody with full intent of not being competitive that season, but were flush with cap space the following year, like 70 mil I think if I remember correctly

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, hjerry said:

Raiders come to mind; had a lot of bad contracts, cut everybody with full intent of not being competitive that season, but were flush with cap space the following year, like 70 mil I think if I remember correctly

And they've still been a bad team. Sometimes a full rebuild can help, but more often than not it just means you're still a bad team but with more cap space. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lornoth said:

Here's the thing: For every Dolphins style full rebuild there's a dozen Jets, Browns, Texans, or Jaguars style full rebuilds. 

It's gotta happen sooner or later. Do we try to trade some of these big contracts or let them hang around like an albatross that doesn't allow us to upgrade anywhere else until they expire and we lose them for nothing?

I'm not even saying we have to trade everybody. ****, keep matt, trade julio and mathews and take sewell in the draft. That's a major relief on the cap right there.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/30/2020 at 4:04 PM, Bobby.Digital said:

Again you only make this move if you're confident that the guy you draft is someone who can and will be a franchise QB.

It seems like you've already made up your mind that if we draft a QB he will bust.

Even your rational doesn't make sense. Matt is 36, the window to win with him isnt that big. Why would we trade the best player on offense just to draft a development QB with that pick? Either you're all in with Matt or you're not. 

You're telling me the Saints made the right decision by drafting Marcus Davenport over Lamar Jackson? The Saints franchise would be so much better off with Lamar Jackson at QB than Drew atm. This isn't even taking in the cap implications. 

There's always the potential for a decision not to work out. But scared money don't make money.

Imagine you passed on a Justin Herbert, Pat Mahomes, DeShaun Watson, Josh Allen, Kyler Murray - All QBs drafted in the top 15 within the last 3 years - for a 36 year old good but not elite QB. 

It seems like most of the people who think trading Matt is insane can't even fathom the possibility that the QB we could draft may end up being better than Matt ever was. 

Right now the only QB that I like is Fields... but we need to know first who the GM and Coach are to make a decision, but yeah at 4th this year with no premier prospect on the positions we really need.. like FS and DE I can get into the idea to get Fields.. If you cannot trade down.. I like Fields and with 2 years under Ryan I think he can be something... the top 10 of this draft is not that good to be honest...

Parsons and Penei are consider generational talents at there positions but do we need them??  No but do you take them?? yes...

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

How to you fix these things while being over the cap? We only have 6 draft picks. 

I included trades , and we have some people that could be cut to free up cap space, like Fowler and a couple of others.  There are ways around a cap problem, the Saints have been doing that for years, mainly restructuring large contracts. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Hard Case said:

I included trades , and we have some people that could be cut to free up cap space, like Fowler and a couple of others.  There are ways around a cap problem, the Saints have been doing that for years, mainly restructuring large contracts. 

And now they're 100 mil over the cap and have to pay the piper.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Yep, there is, and we've been doing that the past few seasons. That corner is approaching us now just like it is the saints.

Saints have been dodging it for years, and look at their team.  It can be done, and McKay is an expert at it, we just have to stop signing busts. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...