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What does Rick Smith as GM mean for Matt Ryan?


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1 hour ago, kiwifalcon said:

Pigeon holed definitely under centre play from the pocket QB off of a running game to use play action that was his go to.Pretty pigeon holed to me he only really used to play from the pocket.

KS’s came and introduced pocket movement and a completely new system and he flourished.
 

See the idea even if we got new coaches Ryan can’t adjust to me isn’t really an issue as he’s been there done that already and became the league mvp in doing so.

Who says any of these guys coming out are an upgrade anyway that’s a long way off if at all saying that.

Yes yes Culture and identity been saying this for years but that’s more important than QB change or any other personnel decision.

I disagree that he was pigeoned holed to play to be just an “under center” QB. His initial offense was designed to be QB friendly and not force him to do too much. Ryan developed and outgrew the system. He then moved into a more shotgun based system with 7 step drops with Koetter. Complete night and day shift. He wasn’t relegated to one particular operating point.

Shanahan came in with the WCO which helped utilize Ryan’s accuracy in the short to intermediate route. Not to mention the ZBS that suited both Freeman and Coleman.

No where did I say that Ryan “couldn’t adjust”. That’s something that you are stating. I even stated that the offense could be potent with him. People seem to take exception to the portion where I said that the system’s require a different archetype to be optimized (maximized).

I never stated that coming out of college that any of these QBs would be an immediate upgrade. Again, that’s something that you’re stating. What I did say was that the top 3 HC prospects have had success with a QB with a different archetype/skill set. Matter of fact I even said that if a QB is drafted in the first round they are more than likely going to sit for a season; two max. No rookie QB, not named Lawrence, is going to dethrone Ryan, and even Lawrence would 50/50.

I mean, having a definitive culture helps, that goes without saying. Teams like the Steelers, Patriots, Ravens, and more recently the Titans have created an identity and it has paid/paying dividends. 

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Where as im not against a good QB if they fall to us like Lawrence, Fields, or Wilson.   That statement right there is completely false as they have never given Ryan a competent O-line and defense.  T

Almost the same minus 60%.....lmao

If you think that's based in large part on physical talent, you're dead wrong. Kyle Shanahan coached RG3 to a Rookie of the Year win, and then he got Matt Ryan. Which of those two "maximized" his

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16 minutes ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

you've had some good takes on here but i think you're overestimating the role of tannehill's mobility in smith's offense.

Thank you. I’ve watched Tannehill play extensively. My best friend is a Dolphins’ fan. I’m actually watching them play the Raiders right now with him. Tannehill was really athletically gifted. He’s one of the more underrated QBs in terms of mobility. He’s also has great arm strength. Check out games 2-4 from the Titans schedule this season. Look at the disparity between the pass/run games. Their system is symbiotic. Check out some of his runs. 
 

 

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4 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Thank you. I’ve watched Tannehill play extensively. My best friend is a Dolphins’ fan. I’m actually watching them play the Raiders right now with him. Tannehill was really athletically gifted. He’s one of the more underrated QBs in terms of mobility. He’s also has great arm strength. Check out games 2-4 from the Titans schedule this season. Look at the disparity between the pass/run games. Their system is symbiotic. Check out some of his runs. 
 

 

i know he's an athlete for sure, i would almost say that the titans' offense doesn't fully utilize his running ability, mainly because it doesn't really need to.

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39 minutes ago, CMarinoNFL said:

Dude.

"It always is best player available. It's vitally important, in my opinion, to the success of consistent drafting to distinguish between need and value. I think when you set your board, you set your board according to value and where you see it, players' abilities and capabilities to perform. If you can get a player at a corresponding value in a round that's a position of need… that's the ideal scenario and situation." – Rick Smith via HoustonTexans.com"

 

You sure about that? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

If he is then he doesn’t recognize the BPA

pretty often check his drafts and check the guys he passed up. 
 

it’s almost like people lie. Weird.

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

i know he's an athlete for sure, i would almost say that the titans' offense doesn't fully utilize his running ability, mainly because it doesn't really need to.

That’s what I’ve been saying. He has the capability to take off running on any play action or roll out, defenses have to take that into account. You sell out to stop Henry and Tannehill will take it over the top. Defenses don’t bite on the play action and play the pass still need worry about Tannehill taking off with it. Typically teams try to stop the run and Tannehill torches them. 

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1 hour ago, CMarinoNFL said:

Dude.

"It always is best player available. It's vitally important, in my opinion, to the success of consistent drafting to distinguish between need and value. I think when you set your board, you set your board according to value and where you see it, players' abilities and capabilities to perform. If you can get a player at a corresponding value in a round that's a position of need… that's the ideal scenario and situation." – Rick Smith via HoustonTexans.com"

 

You sure about that? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Smith is definitely BPA, unless two players are equal in his eyes; then he selects the position of need between the two prospects. Smith is one of my top picks for GM. There’s a lot of false narratives being thrown around by his detractors; none of them hold water. Smith’s biggest weakness is free agent signings with regards to current NFL players. He’s a solid GM candidate. 

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1 hour ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I disagree that he was pigeoned holed to play to be just an “under center” QB. His initial offense was designed to be QB friendly and not force him to do too much. Ryan developed and outgrew the system. He then moved into a more shotgun based system with 7 step drops with Koetter. Complete night and day shift. He wasn’t relegated to one particular operating point.

Shanahan came in with the WCO which helped utilize Ryan’s accuracy in the short to intermediate route. Not to mention the ZBS that suited both Freeman and Coleman.

No where did I say that Ryan “couldn’t adjust”. That’s something that you are stating. I even stated that the offense could be potent with him. People seem to take exception to the portion where I said that the system’s require a different archetype to be optimized (maximized).

I never stated that coming out of college that any of these QBs would be an immediate upgrade. Again, that’s something that you’re stating. What I did say was that the top 3 HC prospects have had success with a QB with a different archetype/skill set. Matter of fact I even said that if a QB is drafted in the first round they are more than likely going to sit for a season; two max. No rookie QB, not named Lawrence, is going to dethrone Ryan, and even Lawrence would 50/50.

I mean, having a definitive culture helps, that goes without saying. Teams like the Steelers, Patriots, Ravens, and more recently the Titans have created an identity and it has paid/paying dividends. 

So going from under centre to shot gun is a night and day shift yeah ok man whatever.Your not moving the pocket it’s stagnated in the same space pretty much the fact that he’s been asked to take extra steps doesn’t make it a night and day difference at all he’s still throwing the ball in the vicinity of the centre.

The scheme is the only difference the place in which he is throwing the ball is not he’s straight dropping pretty much every play.

Again you saying that these coaches are advantaged by using such QBs they have imply that Ryan is disadvantaged again you don’t know that.
 

The implication you and many others are making are there to throw Ryan to the Dogs don’t BS with your agenda.I have mine and I’m not scared to say it the idea what your not is again straight BS you have agenda man up to it.

 

Where as in the KS WCO,Theres pocket movement and he’s been asked throw on the go that’s what I’d call night and day difference because Ryan has never been asked to do that outside of that time before hand.

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On 12/26/2020 at 4:38 AM, Vandy said:

Meh, you’re way overstating the mobility thingy. The main thing smith’s scheme utilizes in the passing game is play action, which happens to be what Ryan excels at when he’s had a running game.

Smith’s my fav HC candidate, so I’ve studied his background a lot. He and Ryan would be a perfect fit, IMO. If he is indeed hired, falcons will be drafting a RB early (my guess is Rd 2) not a QB.

No agenda there though mate Ryan can’t move like any of these young guys so he’ll be the one holding up the scheme and like @Knight of Godmentioned if whoever is half a decent coach it shouldn’t matter too much.

Just imagine if KS thought the same with Ryan you think we go to the SB lol 😂 but he can’t move and is holding back the scheme.

Fark what a load of horse **** 😂 

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17 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

So going from under centre to shot gun is a night and day shift yeah ok man whatever.Your not moving the pocket it’s stagnated in the same space pretty much the fact that he’s been asked to take extra steps doesn’t make it a night and day difference at all he’s still throwing the ball in the vicinity of the centre.

The scheme is the only difference the place in which he is throwing the ball is not he’s straight dropping pretty much every play.

Again you saying that these coaches are advantaged by using such QBs they have imply that Ryan is disadvantaged again you don’t know that.
 

The implication you and many others are making are there to throw Ryan to the Dogs don’t BS with your agenda.I have mine and I’m not scared to say it the idea what your not is again straight BS you have agenda man up to it.

 

Where as in the KS WCO,Theres pocket movement and he’s been asked throw on the go that’s what I’d call night and day difference because Ryan has never been asked to do that outside of that time before hand.

Didn’t state that moving from under center to shotgun was night and day. Was stating that operating a run oriented philosophy that ran under center to a air coryell shotgun dominated philosophy was night and day. Trying to simplify that argument is a logical fallacy.

Rephrase the second and third paragraph, they aren’t cogent or intelligible.

Lol nah no agenda. That’s a weak sauce argument people make when they can’t rebuke talking points. They immediately go to the “yOu’Re a rYaN hAteR.” narrative. My stance has been pretty consistent through all of this. Yours has been launching strawman arguments.

I believe I deciphered this paragraph. Shanahan’s WCO was more timing based than both previous systems Ryan operated. It asked more of Ryan than them as well. It played to Ryan’s strengths as a QB. Compliment that with a ZBS that played to our RBs strengths and you had the recipe for a potent offense. 

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2 hours ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

That’s what I’ve been saying. He has the capability to take off running on any play action or roll out, defenses have to take that into account. You sell out to stop Henry and Tannehill will take it over the top. Defenses don’t bite on the play action and play the pass still need worry about Tannehill taking off with it. Typically teams try to stop the run and Tannehill torches them. 

i see what you're getting at, but defenses aren't freezing up because of tannehill's running ability. he's accounted for around 3% of their yardage this year, that's a complete afterthought for defenses.

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49 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Didn’t state that moving from under center to shotgun was night and day. Was stating that operating a run oriented philosophy that ran under center to a air coryell shotgun dominated philosophy was night and day. Trying to simplify that argument is a logical fallacy.

Rephrase the second and third paragraph, they aren’t cogent or intelligible.

Lol nah no agenda. That’s a weak sauce argument people make when they can’t rebuke talking points. They immediately go to the “yOu’Re a rYaN hAteR.” narrative. My stance has been pretty consistent through all of this. Yours has been launching strawman arguments.

I believe I deciphered this paragraph. Shanahan’s WCO was more timing based than both previous systems Ryan operated. It asked more of Ryan than them as well. It played to Ryan’s strengths as a QB. Compliment that with a ZBS that played to our RBs strengths and you had the recipe for a potent offense. 

Yeah you did.

2 hours ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I disagree that he was pigeoned holed to play to be just an “under center” QB. His initial offense was designed to be QB friendly and not force him to do too much. Ryan developed and outgrew the system. He then moved into a more shotgun based system with 7 step drops with Koetter. Complete night and day shift. He wasn’t relegated to one particular operating point.

Shanahan came in with the WCO which helped utilize Ryan’s accuracy in the short to intermediate route. Not to mention the ZBS that suited both Freeman and Coleman.

No where did I say that Ryan “couldn’t adjust”. That’s something that you are stating. I even stated that the offense could be potent with him. People seem to take exception to the portion where I said that the system’s require a different archetype to be optimized (maximized).

I never stated that coming out of college that any of these QBs would be an immediate upgrade. Again, that’s something that you’re stating. What I did say was that the top 3 HC prospects have had success with a QB with a different archetype/skill set. Matter of fact I even said that if a QB is drafted in the first round they are more than likely going to sit for a season; two max. No rookie QB, not named Lawrence, is going to dethrone Ryan, and even Lawrence would 50/50.

I mean, having a definitive culture helps, that goes without saying. Teams like the Steelers, Patriots, Ravens, and more recently the Titans have created an identity and it has paid/paying dividends. 

yeah you did.

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56 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Didn’t state that moving from under center to shotgun was night and day. Was stating that operating a run oriented philosophy that ran under center to a air coryell shotgun dominated philosophy was night and day. Trying to simplify that argument is a logical fallacy.

Rephrase the second and third paragraph, they aren’t cogent or intelligible.

Lol nah no agenda. That’s a weak sauce argument people make when they can’t rebuke talking points. They immediately go to the “yOu’Re a rYaN hAteR.” narrative. My stance has been pretty consistent through all of this. Yours has been launching strawman arguments.

I believe I deciphered this paragraph. Shanahan’s WCO was more timing based than both previous systems Ryan operated. It asked more of Ryan than them as well. It played to Ryan’s strengths as a QB. Compliment that with a ZBS that played to our RBs strengths and you had the recipe for a potent offense. 

Is not hard to decipher really that what Koetter and Mularkey ran aren’t night and day at all in comparison with what Ryan had to move to in the WCO.Timing,every offense known to man has timing involved in it.

The night and day aspect is making a QB do what he’s never really done before yet all you come up with is timing wake me up.There’s moons more to it than your trying to say.How bout verbiage that’s probably thee most complex thing.

Night and day year because starting under centre and moving to a shotgun yeah yeah night and day.

 

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6 minutes ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

i see what you're getting at, but defenses aren't freezing up because of tannehill's running ability. he's accounted for around 3% of their yardage this year, that's a complete afterthought for defenses.

Capability is the key word. Ryan is capable of taking over with his legs. Stats will never reflect potential. Defenses are freezing up because of the options Titans can deploy.
 

Granted, the majority of it is Henry being an absolute monster; but when you combine that with a mobile QB with an arm; it gives opposing DCs fits. You don’t know if the roll is going to be an actual pass or a run. Not to mention Tannehill’s mobility allows their WRs extra time to get open.

Game over game you see Tannehill look more polished as a passer. Both positions feed off one another, it’s actually really cool to watch how they both benefit from each other. 

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Just now, Sidecar Falcon said:

Capability is the key word. Ryan is capable of taking over with his legs. Stats will never reflect potential. Defenses are freezing up because of the options Titans can deploy.
 

Granted, the majority of it is Henry being an absolute monster; but when you combine that with a mobile QB with an arm; it gives opposing DCs fits. You don’t know if the roll is going to be an actual pass or a run. Not to mention Tannehill’s mobility allows their WRs extra time to get open.

Game over game you see Tannehill look more polished as a passer. Both positions feed off one another, it’s actually really cool to watch how they both benefit from each other. 

if they never do it defenses aren't going to worry about it. Tannehill rarely runs so defenses aren't going to worry about him running, they're going to focus on henry and the passing game.

In other words what I'm saying is that Smith's offense doesn't need (or utilize) a running qb, that's why he went from a more mobile mariota to a somewhat mobile tannehill. He wanted the arm under centre not the legs.

That's why smith is top of my list here. His offense can be incredibly potent with our current starting qb, and it'll be a lot easier to draft the next one because he can adapt his offense to whatever style of qb he has.

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7 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Yeah you did.

yeah you did.

 

1 minute ago, kiwifalcon said:

Is not hard to decipher really that what Koetter and Mularkey ran aren’t night no dy at all in comparison with what Ryan had to move to in the WCO.Timing very offense known to man has timing involved in it.

The night and day aspect is making a QB do he’s never really done before yet all you come up with is timing wake me up.There’s moons more to it than your trying to say.How bout verbiage that’s probably thee most complex thing.

Night and day year because starting under centre and moving to a shotgun yeah yeah night and day 😂.

 

The schemes and philosophies are night and day. A simplified offense vs an air coryell style offense. Two fundamentally different ideologies.

lol I’ll just leave these links here, with a quote. So you can catch up with what I’m talking about. 

“Timing and choreography, not plays, are what make the West Coast offense.”

~Steve Young

http://a.espncdn.com/nfl/s/westcoast/defining.html

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/9/6/17822756/gridiron-genius-mike-lombardi-bill-walsh


Still using the logical fallacy of oversimplification. Smh sad lol

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6 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

 

The schemes and philosophies are night and day. A simplified offense vs an air coryell style offense. Two fundamentally different ideologies.

lol I’ll just leave these links here, with a quote. So you can catch up with what I’m talking about. 

“Timing and choreography, not plays, are what make the West Coast offense.”

~Steve Young

http://a.espncdn.com/nfl/s/westcoast/defining.html

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/9/6/17822756/gridiron-genius-mike-lombardi-bill-walsh


Still using the logical fallacy of oversimplification. Smh sad lol

There’s timing and alike in every offense though.

I already no WCO and what Ryan was using before hand was night and day no ****.

What I quoted was you saying starting under centre and changing to a shotgun offense was different that’s not night and day because thee offense is basically using the same launching point.You said that not me.the first mentioned.

As for over simplification tell you what you live by paralysis by analysis and try and get your way out of this 😂 I mean using other people’s thoughts doesn’t make you smart.

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4 minutes ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

if they never do it defenses aren't going to worry about it. Tannehill rarely runs so defenses aren't going to worry about him running, they're going to focus on henry and the passing game.

In other words what I'm saying is that Smith's offense doesn't need (or utilize) a running qb, that's why he went from a more mobile mariota to a somewhat mobile tannehill. He wanted the arm under centre not the legs.

That's why smith is top of my list here. His offense can be incredibly potent with our current starting qb, and it'll be a lot easier to draft the next one because he can adapt his offense to whatever style of qb he has.

I wouldn’t say that offenses don’t worry about it. Rodgers only has 126 yards rushing and offenses still game plan for his mobility and his capability to running the ball.

I never stated that Ryan couldn’t run Smith’s scheme. I even stated that he could be potent in his scheme. All I said was that he wouldn’t be able to maximize the scheme because of his lack of mobility.

There’s a huge difference between a mobile QB and a running QB. I believe there are only two “running” QBs and they are Jackson, and to a lesser extent Murray. Also Mariota is faster than Tannehill; not more mobile or a better athlete.

Smith is on the top of my list as well. Has been for awhile now. One of those reasons was because his scheme is more in tune with what Ryan does best. He would also bring back the run game, there is no reason Ryan should be throwing 40+ times a game.

My personal opinions are that we hire Smith and either: draft Ryan’s successor or trade back and try and get Surtain/Harris. Even if we draft a QB he won’t be starting right away. He’ll more than likely will be sitting a season or two before starting. Love Ryan but having a contingency plan in place is important for the long term success of this franchise.  

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7 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

There’s timing and alike in every offense though.

I already no WCO and what Ryan was using before hand was night and day no ****.

What I quoted was you saying starting under centre and changing to a shotgun offense was different that’s not night and day because thee offense is basically using the same launching point.You said that not me.the first mentioned.

As for over simplification tell you what you live by paralysis by analysis and try and get your way out of this 😂 I mean using other people’s thoughts doesn’t make you smart.

Lol You can’t argue with Steve Young and Bill Walsh, that’s just plain stupidity at that point. You said the “verbiage” was the hardest part and that was completely inaccurate. West Coast Offense is all about timing, which is the hardest part.

You also left out the part where I said that Mularkey ran a simplified offense and Koetter ran an Air Coryell style offense, in terms of philosophies and schemes. Keep trying to spin that narrative that I’m comparing just “under center vs shotgun”. Smh

lmfao I guess trying to argue with the creator of the WCO and a HOF QB makes you a genius, right?
 

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Smith as GM would mean the Falcons are still saddled economically and we end another year of great draft positions and 2/3 of the fans blame it on the new head coach. But if we can forgive and forget the pain that 2021 will possibly end worse than this one we’ll be positioned for postseason in 2022.  It will mean Matt Ryan is handsome and will have great hair in press conferences.  

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On 12/25/2020 at 9:55 AM, Knight of God said:

Ryan has the capability to run. To downplay his athleticism is plain incorrect 

Exactly!! Seriously, the dude was an option QB in high school and has shown plenty of ability ability in his 13 years in the NFL.

Don't know how people can watch Matt Ryan make runs like this and think "I really hate that Matt Ryan is such a statue and can't run. Wish he was more mobile!!"

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53 minutes ago, AUTiger7222 said:

Exactly!! Seriously, the dude was an option QB in high school and has shown plenty of ability ability in his 13 years in the NFL.

Don't know how people can watch Matt Ryan make runs like this and think "I really hate that Matt Ryan is such a statue and can't run. Wish he was more mobile!!"

He was criticized on the boards for running those times. 

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On 12/24/2020 at 7:48 PM, blknoble357 said:

Ryan maybe here for another year or two. Don't get me wrong, I like Ryan but this organization has given him everything to succeed, I believe we need to look for his successor in this draft

Everything but a good line and a descent defense😉

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4 hours ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Lol You can’t argue with Steve Young and Bill Walsh, that’s just plain stupidity at that point. You said the “verbiage” was the hardest part and that was completely inaccurate. West Coast Offense is all about timing, which is the hardest part.

You also left out the part where I said that Mularkey ran a simplified offense and Koetter ran an Air Coryell style offense, in terms of philosophies and schemes. Keep trying to spin that narrative that I’m comparing just “under center vs shotgun”. Smh

lmfao I guess trying to argue with the creator of the WCO and a HOF QB makes you a genius, right?
 

Don’t worry I’m not arguing with them I’m arguing with you like I mentioned posting other people’s thoughts doesn’t make you smart.

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2 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

Don’t worry I’m not arguing with them I’m arguing with you like I mentioned posting other people’s thoughts doesn’t make you smart.

Lol I posted what experts said was the most difficult part of the WCO and you dismissed it. Like I said, arguing with experts makes you a genius, right? 

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