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I see week 13 differently than many of you


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1 hour ago, Atl Falcon said:

OP is on point...Saints defense is lights out. It made the GOAT TB look like Ryan Leaf twice this season already. Gotta give some credit to the other team. 

Said it before & I’ll say it again. If we look at defensive minded HC candidates, I think Dennis Allen should absolutely be in the mix.

He was born in Atlanta & got his NFL coaching start with the Falcons as an assistant back when Blank first got the team.

Having spent the last several years in NO, he’s already scouted this team a lot & would come into it w/ a good idea of the players he’d want to keep.

Plus, he’d potentially have some better insight into any exploitable weaknesses with Sean Payton’s play calling and/or the Saints roster. Pretty helpful to make a quick turnaround when the new HC is already super familiar w/ the divisional opponents’ tendencies.

Allen also has previous experience as a HC. That’s something I think can be very valuable. We’ve seen over & over how first time HCs can be prone to making costly decisions which lose games simply because they aren’t used to the role of being a HC. Having someone w/ a solid understanding of the role from the start seems like a better way to go compared to hiring another inexperienced ex-coordinator & waiting for them to learn on the job.

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Don't bring a  levelheaded approach here after a loss. ....they don't take kindly to that round here.

Before the season I held the position that the Falcons could play very good football this year and end up 9-7. They haven't played good football all season, so they won't be 9-7.  Sunday's game was ex

The offense was straight trash outside of a couple drives. Couldn’t convert a 3rd down obviously couldn’t convert in the red zone. If it was just one game I could say “good game Saints” but the offens

23 minutes ago, Glorioso said:

 

Thats, in part, why teams lose - Hill isnt some 3rd string scrub QB. Teams that continue to think that way will continue to get punched in the mouth until they wake up. By then, its too late. 

 

I thought the Falcons played MUCH better yesterday than the first match. I think in that first match, they really didnt know how to defend Hill and protect Ryan. Defensively, the Falcons came to play. It was clear yall would not let AK41 have his way. He was all but bottled up for a good 3Q. Where we made our mark was the passing game. Hill has been w/ Drew now for 4 years. He has learned from the GOAT how to prepare, how to analyze. He hasnt simply arrived from college ball and all of a sudden is thrown to the wolves. He had 4 years to learn "game speed" ( which is quite different from NCAA game speed ). Anticipation, knowing route schemes vs defensive scheme, who is or should be open...all of that he has had time to adjust to. 

Defensively, yall did a much better job protecting Ryan this game. I will say, he was pretty spooked in the pocket when it would start to collapse. But when he went to hurry up, shotgun, and passing in rhythm, he was much more effective. And it negated our pass rush for the most part. 

 

This was the game i expected 2 weeks ago. Yesterday was typical rivalry game. in the last 7 meetings, we have won 6. Outside of 2 weeks ago, the rest were just like yesterday. I was thinking it would come down to who had ball last. Thank goodness it didnt. Our Defense got stout when needed. 

Tough season for yall, but yesterdays performance, Falcons were not "laying down". 

 

 

Yes he is, the guy had like 60 yards against Denver.

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3 minutes ago, Malachore said:

Yes he is, the guy had like 60 yards against Denver.

He sure did. And if you followed the Saints you would know that after they announced they had no QBs, Sean Payton changed the game plan. 

We ran the ball 44 times out of 60 plays. for 240 yards. 

Hill is what we thought he would be in this offense. 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, falcndave said:

If a team is bringing pressure hard off the edge, how do you counter that? It isn't like Gurley has the burst to get outside on quicker front sevens. If you want to go to we should have been using Smith or Hill more, I could buy into that. However, you can't just abandon the area between the tackles. A quality opponent will rub you into the dirt. Reference: two weeks ago. 

Not to mention we had success on that drive and the previous drive running up the middle and it was a run up the middle that got us to 3rd and short.

Add to the fact that the redzone is the one area where Gurley has excelled in this year.

So the call was not as bad as people make it out to be.

 

 

 

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I have no issue with the defense or special teams.  I think the defense made adjustments and outside of a couple chunk plays, held them in check overall.  The offense is where my frustrations lie...again.  There were no adjustments made from two weeks ago (as predicted), the Saints knew exactly what Koetter wanted to do, again trying to run up the middle over and over with no success.  

The only traction the offense had at all was the final two drives when they were forced to go no huddle and up tempo, basically taking the play calling out of Koetters hands.  The second they huddled back up and slowed down on both drives, the offense stalled like clockwork.

I agree with OP about how it felt like a team effort, the players were digging deep, you could tell they wanted it.  This is 100% on Dirk and his vanilla...actually calling his play calling vanilla is being too harsh on anything vanilla flavored or scented...this abomination and embarrassment of play calling is so bad I really can’t fathom how he still has a job.  He’s literally costing our players money by making them look worse.  He’s also causing blank a ton of money by making this team **** near unwatchable.

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34 minutes ago, Rings said:

I have no issue with the defense or special teams.  I think the defense made adjustments and outside of a couple chunk plays, held them in check overall.  The offense is where my frustrations lie...again.  There were no adjustments made from two weeks ago (as predicted), the Saints knew exactly what Koetter wanted to do, again trying to run up the middle over and over with no success.  

The only traction the offense had at all was the final two drives when they were forced to go no huddle and up tempo, basically taking the play calling out of Koetters hands.  The second they huddled back up and slowed down on both drives, the offense stalled like clockwork.

I agree with OP about how it felt like a team effort, the players were digging deep, you could tell they wanted it.  This is 100% on Dirk and his vanilla...actually calling his play calling vanilla is being too harsh on anything vanilla flavored or scented...this abomination and embarrassment of play calling is so bad I really can’t fathom how he still has a job.  He’s literally costing our players money by making them look worse.  He’s also causing blank a ton of money by making this team **** near unwatchable.

some of that no huddle success can also be attributed to keeping the defense in base cover 2. You know what you have play in, play out with not allowing the defense to substitute/rotate players or call exotic defenses. 

The Gurley play. I just watched it on twitter. That play was doomed by #93- his move upfield caused Hurst to have to bubble around that mass and completely blew up the timing of the blocking. By time Hurst arrived to his assignment, the play was effectively done and Gurley chose to bounce it out ( which he shouldnt have ) 

sometimes, its simply an individual effort that blows a play up. 

 

However, back to the original point....had you all stayed in hurry up, We dont rotate out our Dline and bring in Onyemata possibly and sit in cover 2. 

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9 hours ago, falcndave said:

Before the season I held the position that the Falcons could play very good football this year and end up 9-7. They haven't played good football all season, so they won't be 9-7.  Sunday's game was exactly how I thought this whole season could go. Where many of you obviously saw poor play calling, poor QB play, a bad running game, and spotty defense; I saw a tough fought game between worthy opponents.

The problem with so many of the Sunday takes is that the Saints are a very good football team. This is not a generic opponent. The Falcons effort on Sunday is being evaluated as if they were. We faced the top ranked defense, and we did struggle at time. They faced a defense that is 6th against run and improving against the pass. They had more success, but it wasn't sustained success. They had too many drives die in scoring position to take control (a criticism many had of the Falcons). 

I didn't like everything I saw on Sunday. There were mistakes. (In all fairness to the angry masses, I did see some poor excuses for tackling early on.) But overall, the game was a war and the Falcons gave one of the top three teams in the NFC everything they wanted. Yea, but penalties. Yea, but fumble. Yea, but missed FG. Sure, the Saints made some mistakes. Or...did the Falcons D force some mistakes? Now let's flip that around. The Falcons O left plays on the table. Or...did  the Saints D take plays off the table?

Had the Falcons not given away three wins earlier in the season this game would have been extremely frustrating, but most would have recognized it as a pretty good battle between two defenses who are building toward the end of the season. 

As Falcons games have gone this season, Sunday was one of the better team efforts. It just happened to come against a better team. We may see more of that over the next four weeks. Its difficult not to confuse bad results with bad play. While allowing that judging profession sports franchises by the bottom line (scoreboard) is valid, I don't feel the team laid down a pretty solid effort against a strong opponent. I HATE losing to the Saints. That part bites. However, the Falcons actual play did not leave the same bad taste in my mouth as the efforts against Dallas, Seattle, Chicago, Carolina, and Detroit. This was a better brand of football even if the results were the same ole suck. 

We have gone 1-6 over our last seven games with New Orleans.  We have no significant injuries on our team and are 4-8.  The Saints are playing without their HOF QB and are 10-2.  They just clinched for the playoffs.  We need to hire a new GM and HC.

We played the Saints two weeks ago and lost 24-9.  This time, we lost 21-16 (at home).  Just because this loss wasn't as ugly as some we have taken this year is no excuse.  "You play to win the game" and "You are what your record says you are".  We are a bad team. 

As much as I hate to say it...Brees > Ryan, Thomas (today) > Jones (today), Kamara > Gurley, their DL > our OL, and their coaching is >>> our coaching. 

This is the NFL, so yes, every game is a fight, but you get no participation trophies for losing.

We have no more opportunities to play them this year, but I hope we make some changes and improve our team, not just so we can beat the Saints, but put ourselves on footing to get back to the Super Bowl. 

We have a long way to go. 

Edited by Tmodel66
typo
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7 minutes ago, Tmodel66 said:

We have gone 1-6 over our last seven games with New Orleans.  We have no significant injuries on our team and are 4-8.  The Saints are playing without their HOF QB and are 10-2.  They just clinched for the playoffs.  We need to hire a new GM and HC.

This is pretty much where I'm at. My only point in this thread was the team pretty much played up to its potential this week. They didn't "under perform" as they did two weeks ago. Despite the record, the games have been competitive for the last two years. Even in the lost last year the Saints couldn't punch it into the endzone. Two weeks ago was the only real egg the team laid, where the effort wasn't sufficient, over the last four.

We need to manage the cap and get better players and coaches if you want to beat the 2020 Saints on a regular basis. That basically means your beating all 31 teams on a regular basis. That is what the bar is when you measure against the Saints. As much as it pains me to say it, in the best case this was a 9-7 team this year if it performed flawlessly. That is the where the roster and coaching staff are at vs. the strength of schedule we are facing this year. 

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I just cant with some of you. 29th in red zone scoring pct this SEASON. 31st in yards per rush this SEASON. Good defense or not (for 1 GAME), this offense has sucked all year. All while having Julio, Ridley, Hurst, Gage, Mack Lidstrom, Jake, and Matt. I guess we have to have all world at every single position to be even middle of the pack?

 

Defense allowed a dude who never threw a TD in the NFL, to toss 2. One was uncontested by 10 yards. Michal thomas was 9 of 11. Not like we were working to stop him very hard. Even stupid *** Jonathan Vilma explained how the offense doesnt work for Kamara with Hill in instead of Brees. So dont kid yourself thinking we stopped the Saints "real" offense.

You can keep your rose colored glasses. But this team didnt do anything yesterday to prove they have come along anywhere.

 

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41 minutes ago, Glorioso said:

some of that no huddle success can also be attributed to keeping the defense in base cover 2. You know what you have play in, play out with not allowing the defense to substitute/rotate players or call exotic defenses. 

The Gurley play. I just watched it on twitter. That play was doomed by #93- his move upfield caused Hurst to have to bubble around that mass and completely blew up the timing of the blocking. By time Hurst arrived to his assignment, the play was effectively done and Gurley chose to bounce it out ( which he shouldnt have ) 

sometimes, its simply an individual effort that blows a play up. 

 

However, back to the original point....had you all stayed in hurry up, We dont rotate out our Dline and bring in Onyemata possibly and sit in cover 2. 

Exactly.  Saints knew exactly what ATL was doing and had the counter for it each play, no huddle removed that ability.  The fact that they only run that at the end of halves is infuriating, Ryan seems to be at his best in those situations but as soon as it slows down in the red zone it falls off.  Three run plays called in a row when we are 30th in offensive rushing DVOA and Saints are 2nd in defensive rushing DVOA...good god it’s bad.  It’s painfully bad.

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2 hours ago, k-train said:

Said it before & I’ll say it again. If we look at defensive minded HC candidates, I think Dennis Allen should absolutely be in the mix.

He was born in Atlanta & got his NFL coaching start with the Falcons as an assistant back when Blank first got the team.

Having spent the last several years in NO, he’s already scouted this team a lot & would come into it w/ a good idea of the players he’d want to keep.

Plus, he’d potentially have some better insight into any exploitable weaknesses with Sean Payton’s play calling and/or the Saints roster. Pretty helpful to make a quick turnaround when the new HC is already super familiar w/ the divisional opponents’ tendencies.

Allen also has previous experience as a HC. That’s something I think can be very valuable. We’ve seen over & over how first time HCs can be prone to making costly decisions which lose games simply because they aren’t used to the role of being a HC. Having someone w/ a solid understanding of the role from the start seems like a better way to go compared to hiring another inexperienced ex-coordinator & waiting for them to learn on the job.

He can bring Carmichael with him to be OC

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47 minutes ago, falcndave said:

This is pretty much where I'm at. My only point in this thread was the team pretty much played up to its potential this week. They didn't "under perform" as they did two weeks ago. Despite the record, the games have been competitive for the last two years. Even in the lost last year the Saints couldn't punch it into the endzone. Two weeks ago was the only real egg the team laid, where the effort wasn't sufficient, over the last four.

We need to manage the cap and get better players and coaches if you want to beat the 2020 Saints on a regular basis. That basically means your beating all 31 teams on a regular basis. That is what the bar is when you measure against the Saints. As much as it pains me to say it, in the best case this was a 9-7 team this year if it performed flawlessly. That is the where the roster and coaching staff are at vs. the strength of schedule we are facing this year. 

We performed defensively and under-performed offensively

7 drives in Saints territory for 16 points

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2 hours ago, k-train said:

Said it before & I’ll say it again. If we look at defensive minded HC candidates, I think Dennis Allen should absolutely be in the mix.

He was born in Atlanta & got his NFL coaching start with the Falcons as an assistant back when Blank first got the team.

Having spent the last several years in NO, he’s already scouted this team a lot & would come into it w/ a good idea of the players he’d want to keep.

Plus, he’d potentially have some better insight into any exploitable weaknesses with Sean Payton’s play calling and/or the Saints roster. Pretty helpful to make a quick turnaround when the new HC is already super familiar w/ the divisional opponents’ tendencies.

Allen also has previous experience as a HC. That’s something I think can be very valuable. We’ve seen over & over how first time HCs can be prone to making costly decisions which lose games simply because they aren’t used to the role of being a HC. Having someone w/ a solid understanding of the role from the start seems like a better way to go compared to hiring another inexperienced ex-coordinator & waiting for them to learn on the job.

Now that’s a really good idea. I like getting Carmichael as well. 
 

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18 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

He can bring Carmichael with him to be OC

I think Carmichael would also have to be in contention for the HC gig. I believe he was made the Assistant HC/OC by Sean Payton, so I don't think he could come here for any role other than HC without it being considered a lateral move.

That said, if we did hire either Allen or Carmichael to become the HC here, perhaps they could bring in someone like Saints QB coach Joe Lombardi to be our OC. He has some previous experience as an OC in the NFL.

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4 hours ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

We get blown out the water with Brees at QB if we played the way we played both times vs the Saints. Taysom Hill is the only reason it was even close. Heck he even threw some gifts our way that our sorry DBs allowed to go right through their hands. He gifted us a fumble when they were inside the 10 yardline. He almost gifted us another fumble at the very end.

Yet still Taysom Hill put up 282 yards, 2 tds and 315 yards, 2 TDs in the 2 games. If you think the player at the most important position has nothing to do with these losses you might want to pay more attention. We got slapped by a guy that just last week vs a horrific Denver team struggled to do anything. He could not even top 100 pass yards last week yet he is throwing it all over the yard against us.

How many times did we have them in 3rd and long and Hill converted a pass for a 1st down. One of the reasons our defense was on the field all game was because of the constant 3rd downs they gave up. On 3rd Downs, Hill converted for a 1st down EIGHT times with pass plays. Multiple times it was 10+ yards. That is on the defense not the offense. They would have had less points and far less TOP if our defense got off the field in those situations.

Our Offense was terrible and plays a large part in both losses but that does not change the fact Taysom Hill bodied us in both games either.

So is Hill better than Carr? Cuz we demolished that team? 

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2 minutes ago, Dirtybird3 said:

So is Hill better than Carr? Cuz we demolished that team? 

The Raiders are like a Jim Mora led Falcons team.

They play up to the competition (beat the Browns, Saints, KC and almost swept KC) but also play down to the completion (were a drop away from losing to Chargers, Lost to us, Patriots, needed Hailmary to win against the Winless Jets)

To answer your question though - No Hill is not better than Carr. Not even close. However, Hill played us before than Carr did.

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T Hill came to win and he played an impressive game considering he's not been the QB core of the Saints offense until Brees got hurt.  Hill is a very good football player as evidenced by his success in Every Position New Orleans has set him in.  And yes, it was a close game, not perfectly played by either team.

Bottom line is we have issues that are uncomfortable to talk about. 

We have issues that are easy to digest like "fire DK" and/or "fire everyone on staff".  But we have issues that are more abrasive like "won't be bothered to step into a 12' gap to rush 1 yard for a first down" or "consistently poor completion percentage" or "secondary is basically 4 dudes watching the game from the best seats in the house".  And "our running back superstar aims toward the opposite end zone sometimes."

I agree with the optimism that the game was not a blowout and it's exciting for big divisional rivalry games to play close.  And I do not in any expect every game to be a win.  Overall we held Saints to fewer points than last time and we scored one more TD against them than last time.  Special teams did well.  Koo kept us in the game.  

I do think it's time to focus on the draft/trade needs.  Some of which y'all don't want to hear about.  

 

For my daily dose of much-needed optimism I'm looking at my dad's favorite team, the Browns.  Bake and friends are 9-3 only a few seasons since 0-16.  So we can be too.  And if you lovingly look back at that 2017 Cleveland season, they weren't getting crushed, like us they played close games.  It may take 3 years, will definitely take 2 years but we'll be there in the hunt for real again.  

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4 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

We performed defensively and under-performed offensively

7 drives in Saints territory for 16 points

My Saints friends feel the same way about the Saints you do about the Falcons. That is exactly their take. "The defense was solid, but Hill tried to give the game away." They forget that just last season Drew Brees scored only one TD in two games while stalling 5 drives in scoring position vs. the Falcons. It happens in hard fought division games. 

 

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11 hours ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

99% of runs up the middle to Gurley is a wasted offensive call.  So are we saying Koetter is just lazy on those calls or just stupid?  I want to say both. 

Koetter calling runs up the middle to Gurley = Dan 'Defensive Guru' Quinn thinking Rico is a legit FS. This franchise can be...prismatic when it comes to the 'derp factor'.

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6 minutes ago, falconfansince66 said:

Something positive that I saw - The Saints had to Punt five times.  The Falcons actually only had one 15 yard penalty, the Saints had ten penalties and should've been eleven considering the picked up flag when Ridley was nearly tackled on one of his long routes.

Since we were not able to convert at the end it gets pushed under the rug but that series after the " fumble" by Ryan by the saints was terrible terrible play calling by SP.

People ***** about DK being vanilla and predicable but by the end of the game the falcons knew every time Hill was going to run ....which was alot....nothing the saints did surprised the falcons the last few drives that they had....SP got uber uber predicable.

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