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Rehashing the 8 sacks Falcons allowed against Saints: From the notebook - The Athletic


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57 minutes ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

Thanks for posting that goob. here's a few things that jump out at me:

a. sack #4 should have been thrown away to save FG range, "touchdown or bust" thinking from ryan cost 3 points

b. #2 and #7 the time from snap to sack is misleading because those were plays where ryan was rolling out or scrambling (#2 he even made a guy miss and saved a 5-yard loss)

c. lots of 3rd and longs in there, sheesh

d. sacks on third down (with the exception of ones that take you out of fg range, see point a) while frustrating are not the end of the world. the whole "qb should throw the ball away" narrative is ignorant on thrid down, it's f*cking third down, an incompletion and we're punting anyways, qb just trying to make a play

e. i get people saying "when its 3rd and 2 ryan should try running for it when there's a hole", absolutely, i agree 100%. but half those sacks were 3rd and long, one was 3rd and 3 (sack #3), and one was 3rd and 2 (see point a)

f. on #5, i'm not sure where he's getting 4 targets from. we were in max pro and had 2 receivers running routes (and a rb released late but was blanketed), against 6 defenders dropped in coverage, that's terrible play design, like, horrendous.

have at'er folks....

When teams.....any team uses max protection then they usually only have 2 in routes...that is not uncommon. The saints actually did it several times  Sunday.

But that was DK trying to help the oline out...adding extra guys to block.... litterally the exact opposite of what people are claiming.

I think he was anticipating a blitz

 

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10 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

When teams.....any team uses max protection then they usually only have 2 in routes...that is not uncommon. The saints actually did it several times  Sunday.

But that was DK trying to help the oline out...adding extra guys to block.... litterally the exact opposite of what people are claiming.

I think he was anticipating a blitz

 

yes, i understand how maxpro works.

if DK was anticipating a blitz (by a team that didn't need to blitz all day), and sent 2 receivers on deep routes, that play becomes even more of a glaring example of his cluelessness.

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4 minutes ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

yes, i understand how maxpro works.

if DK was anticipating a blitz (by a team that didn't need to blitz all day), and sent 2 receivers on deep routes, that play becomes even more of a glaring example of his cluelessness.

They were not deep though

Atleast 1 was an intermediate crossing /dig route....I did not see the top of the route but atleast one of the receivers was running horizontally.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

They were not deep though

Atleast 1 was an intermediate crossing /dig route....I did not see the top of the route but atleast one of the receivers was running horizontally.

 

 

 

i stand corrected, one was a go or deep post, the other was a 10 yard in/climb looking route. that play mght work against an all out blitz where the defense sends 9 and are in zero coverage, but when the defense only had to rush 4 all day thinking they were just randomly going to send the house on a random first down.......

:bang:

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

i stand corrected, one was a go or deep post, the other was a 10 yard in/climb looking route. that play mght work against an all out blitz where the defense sends 9 and are in zero coverage, but when the defense only had to rush 4 all day thinking they were just randomly going to send the house on a random first down.......

:bang:

The funny thing is the sack was from a blitzing Davis who times it well.

 

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5 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Time from snap to sack is pretty disturbing and exactly the reason why I don't how anyone could say the line wasn't giving Matt enough time.  Matt Ryan used to live on getting the ball out in under 3 seconds.

its the scheme?? or suddenly our wr are not getting open??

Also If I am not mistaken.. Bucs run the same offense right?? So NO figure out that offense...

Edited by Fernando C.
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3 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

The funny thing is the sack was from a blitzing Davis who times it well.

 

wasn't a blitz, it was a reaction to seeing the tight end and the rb engage in blocks. take a look, he took steps with the play action, saw the pulling tight end and rb engage, and exploded like a f*cking rocket. you're allowed to say "koetter guessed wrong and their guy made a heck of a play".

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1 minute ago, Fernando C. said:

its the scheme?? or suddenly our wr are not getting open??

Also If I am not mistaken.. Bucs run the same offense right?? they NO figure out that offense...

Bucs run a different scheme but the conceit is very much the same in that they're both trying to get the ball vertical.  They just go about it different ways -- or at least Arians used to before he gave up play calling.  

A lot of what our problems are is Dirk is just slow to make adjustments.  First half we kept trying to attack the middle of the field when after the first drive, Allen took it away.  We shoulda been attacking outside the numbers, but didn't start dialing that up until the second half.  

Then Dirk does not use formations to scheme guys open the way some of his counterparts do like say Shanny or McVay do for example.  And I hate the term "scheme open" because it really overly simplifies the difficulty of offensive play calling, but there are things the really good ones do to steal a first down or keep a drive going here and there.  

Dirk didn't use the plethora of bunch or tight formations to create natural picks against man coverage that he should have when the Saints went almost exclusively man against us.  

The Saints are a really good defense... really good, and Dennis Allen is a really good play caller when he gets locked in, so they deserve credit, but there's a lot of meat we left on the bone.

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15 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Time from snap to sack is pretty disturbing and exactly the reason why I don't how anyone could say the line wasn't giving Matt enough time.  Matt Ryan used to live on getting the ball out in under 3 seconds.

That's what I was saying. On most of those sacks Ryan had enough time to go through all his progressions. No one was open. That's just bad playcalling and/or bad play design.

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31 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Bucs run a different scheme but the conceit is very much the same in that they're both trying to get the ball vertical.  They just go about it different ways -- or at least Arians used to before he gave up play calling.  

A lot of what our problems are is Dirk is just slow to make adjustments.  First half we kept trying to attack the middle of the field when after the first drive, Allen took it away.  We shoulda been attacking outside the numbers, but didn't start dialing that up until the second half.  

Then Dirk does not use formations to scheme guys open the way some of his counterparts do like say Shanny or McVay do for example.  And I hate the term "scheme open" because it really overly simplifies the difficulty of offensive play calling, but there are things the really good ones do to steal a first down or keep a drive going here and there.  

Dirk didn't use the plethora of bunch or tight formations to create natural picks against man coverage that he should have when the Saints went almost exclusively man against us.  

The Saints are a really good defense... really good, and Dennis Allen is a really good play caller when he gets locked in, so they deserve credit, but there's a lot of meat we left on the bone.

We can also add.. we were one dimensional all game long... and if you ask me all season long.. we don't have a good running game...

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6 minutes ago, Fernando C. said:

We can also add.. we were one dimensional all game long... and if you ask me all season long.. we don't have a good running game...

And then there is that.  I'm watching the game Sunday, scratching my head as to why we're still calling play-action in the middle of the third quarter when we not only weren't getting any yards, but only made a somewhat passing attempt to even set up the run game in the first place.

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25 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

And then there is that.  I'm watching the game Sunday, scratching my head as to why we're still calling play-action in the middle of the third quarter when we not only weren't getting any yards, but only made a somewhat passing attempt to even set up the run game in the first place.

Part of that is the fact that the Saints are pretty good upfront but their back end has been very meh.

Especially with Holdsamore being out.

And we had Julio and Ridley  together for the first time in weeks ( in theory atleast)

So I get trying to attack their weakness with our strength.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

And then there is that.  I'm watching the game Sunday, scratching my head as to why we're still calling play-action in the middle of the third quarter when we not only weren't getting any yards, but only made a somewhat passing attempt to even set up the run game in the first place.

Painfull to watch... to tell you the truth I see only 1 more win... if we get lucky...

Cause I just can't trust these coaches...

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1 hour ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Bucs run a different scheme but the conceit is very much the same in that they're both trying to get the ball vertical.  They just go about it different ways -- or at least Arians used to before he gave up play calling.  

A lot of what our problems are is Dirk is just slow to make adjustments.  First half we kept trying to attack the middle of the field when after the first drive, Allen took it away.  We shoulda been attacking outside the numbers, but didn't start dialing that up until the second half.  

Then Dirk does not use formations to scheme guys open the way some of his counterparts do like say Shanny or McVay do for example.  And I hate the term "scheme open" because it really overly simplifies the difficulty of offensive play calling, but there are things the really good ones do to steal a first down or keep a drive going here and there.  

Dirk didn't use the plethora of bunch or tight formations to create natural picks against man coverage that he should have when the Saints went almost exclusively man against us.  

The Saints are a really good defense... really good, and Dennis Allen is a really good play caller when he gets locked in, so they deserve credit, but there's a lot of meat we left on the bone.

I feel we’ve been leaving meat on the bone offensively for about 3 years.

As for this game the defense hung tough but got no help.

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4 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I find it disturbing that Morris said the following things after the game:

a. The Falcons were more physical than NO.  Clearly we were not.  And

b. The Falcons were fine on 1st & 2nd downs.  We were atrocious on all 3 downs

 

Ww must be watching a different game, Raheem

He's gotta go. I was trying to give him a chance after his brain farts in Detroit (going for it on 4th and 5 when in FG range?!?!), but he's got a case of the Derps. The fact that it's not as severe as Quinn's case of the Derps isn't good enough for me.

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41 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

And then there is that.  I'm watching the game Sunday, scratching my head as to why we're still calling play-action in the middle of the third quarter when we not only weren't getting any yards, but only made a somewhat passing attempt to even set up the run game in the first place.

The PA worked really well the first drive I thought, maybe a bit here and there after, but yeah...you're behind and also haven't been able to run the ball all day, so let's stick with the same script?! That turn and fake handoff is just helping their blitzes and increasing Ryan's chance of getting blindsided. Putrid effort by Koetter.

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4 hours ago, JDaveG said:

Right.  There was, what, one sack where the snap to sack time was under 3 seconds?

That's either gameplan (routes take too long) or execution (receivers not doing their job).  Simple as that.

Its time to sack not time to pressure. If Ryan extends the play by scrambling you can easily take off 2 seconds from that time.

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So my take away, at a minimum, the tackles are not doing their job. Jordan is a handful, but for as much capital that has been put into those spots, they are not doing their job. Short of playing against a backup type, they don't move/shout-out opposing players. 

Never a fan of the McGary pick, but have to live with it for now. Don't know the status of Matthews and his contract, but not worth bringing back. 

Edited by isproab
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16 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Time from snap to sack is pretty disturbing and exactly the reason why I don't how anyone could say the line wasn't giving Matt enough time.  Matt Ryan used to live on getting the ball out in under 3 seconds.

Co-signed. Part of the problem is Kutty's fetish for the 7 step drop. 

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18 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Bucs run a different scheme but the conceit is very much the same in that they're both trying to get the ball vertical.  They just go about it different ways -- or at least Arians used to before he gave up play calling.  

A lot of what our problems are is Dirk is just slow to make adjustments.  First half we kept trying to attack the middle of the field when after the first drive, Allen took it away.  We shoulda been attacking outside the numbers, but didn't start dialing that up until the second half.  

Then Dirk does not use formations to scheme guys open the way some of his counterparts do like say Shanny or McVay do for example.  And I hate the term "scheme open" because it really overly simplifies the difficulty of offensive play calling, but there are things the really good ones do to steal a first down or keep a drive going here and there.  

Dirk didn't use the plethora of bunch or tight formations to create natural picks against man coverage that he should have when the Saints went almost exclusively man against us.  

The Saints are a really good defense... really good, and Dennis Allen is a really good play caller when he gets locked in, so they deserve credit, but there's a lot of meat we left on the bone.

The thing that bugs me about this team on offense and defense is we're too prone to making the other team's job easy.  On defense, that has improved somewhat since Quinn left, but on offense it's still true.  We don't use misdirection or formation to disguise plays, and though we are using more play action and running more for the most part, we don't seem to have a coherent concept of how the pass sets up the run and vice-versa.

Shanahan and guys like him use the run game.  They don't just say "we should try a running play here."  The run is designed to set up the defense for other plays.  The pass is designed to open up the run game.  They work together as a seamless whole.  We just seem to be pulling plays off a play sheet in a "well, maybe this will work" fashion.

I grant it's more complicated than that, but at its core, this offense lacks any real identity.  And part of that is we don't seem to have a cohesive understanding of how we're trying to attack defenses on a quarter by quarter as opposed to a play by play basis.

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