2020 - 2021 Hawks Free Agency News

[The Monarch 11,814]

1 hour ago, GEORGIAfan said:

You are thinking of a trade + extension. In that scenario, I agree it will cost a fortune. 

 Sign and Trade is a special type of trade done when the player is a Free Agent. 

DLo was a free agent and wanted to go to GS.  Nets were facilitating and got a protected 1st. 

GS didn't want to lose KD for nothing and Nets had cap space( after we took Crabbe and they revoked their rights to DLo). GS convinced Dlo to join and paid a 1st round pick to Brooklyn for their help. Nets didn't give up DLo for KD. 

 I understand a S&T, but we still only have leverage if he only wants to come here and even then it’s limited because we can’t sign him without an S&T. 

[The Monarch 11,814]

FWIW a trade and extension is far more likely, IMO. They won’t get to the S&T scenario.

[GEORGIAfan 18,731]

1 minute ago, The Monarch said:

 I understand a S&T, but we still only have leverage if he only wants to come here and even then it’s limited because we can’t sign him without an S&T. 

As long as we don't extend Collins, we can just dump the contracts(Same way BK dumped Crabbe) to create the space. It would be more complicated, but still possible.  We don't need the bucks. Just teams willing to take Capela/Gallo's contract without putting anything on our books and next year. a lot of teams will have cap space. 

Also, the leverage is only if we are the only team willing to do an S&T. Mavs/Lakers/Heat can sign Giannis with cap space. Bucks aren't necessary in those deals. They have zero leverage and will end up with nothing.  Working with us is in their best interest. 

If Giannis tells the bucks next offseason he is leaving to play with either Luka or trae, then it is in the bucks interest to help us get a S&T done because the Mavs have cap space. Giannis signs with the mavs and Both the Hawks and bucks get nothing, but the bucks are worse off, because of the Jrue Trade. 

[The Monarch 11,814]

1 minute ago, GEORGIAfan said:

As long as we don't extend Collins, we can just dump the contracts(Same way BK dumped Crabbe) to create the space. It would be more complicated, but still possible.  We don't need the bucks. Just teams willing to take Capela/Gallo's contract without putting anything on our books and next year. a lot of teams will have cap space. 

Also, the leverage is only if we are the only team willing to do an S&T. Mavs/Lakers/Heat can sign Giannis with cap space. Bucks aren't necessary in those deals. They have zero leverage and will end up with nothing.  Working with us is in their best interest. 

If Giannis tells the bucks next offseason he is leaving to play with either Luka or trae, then it is in the bucks interest to help us get a S&T done because the Mavs have cap space. Giannis signs with the mavs and Both the Hawks and bucks get nothing, but the bucks are worse off, because of the Jrue Trade. 

Yes, if he says that.

But as to the bold, if the Mavs/Lakers/Heat think they’ll miss out signing him outright because of a Hawks S&T, they’ll start bidding it up too. They’re not gonna just sit there and let us poach him. So it definitely helps us too, not just the Bucks.

also, to just dump contracts to create space, we’ll need to attach assets in any event, maybe good ones.

at the end of the day, Giannis is a god****  unicorn. Trying to find parallels is a fools errand. The only way we get him as cheaply as you say is (1) he says he’ll only sign here and (2) we’ve already cleared enough cap to sign him outright so the Bucks have real risk if they don’t complete a deal. Otherwise, we’re going to be paying a bunch, even in an S&T.

[GEORGIAfan 18,731]

53 minutes ago, The Monarch said:

Yes, if he says that.

But as to the bold, if the Mavs/Lakers/Heat think they’ll miss out signing him outright because of a Hawks S&T, they’ll start bidding it up too. They’re not gonna just sit there and let us poach him. So it definitely helps us too, not just the Bucks.

also, to just dump contracts to create space, we’ll need to attach assets in any event, maybe good ones.

at the end of the day, Giannis is a god****  unicorn. Trying to find parallels is a fools errand. The only way we get him as cheaply as you say is (1) he says he’ll only sign here and (2) we’ve already cleared enough cap to sign him outright so the Bucks have real risk if they don’t complete a deal. Otherwise, we’re going to be paying a bunch, even in an S&T.

The person they have to convince is Giannis, not the bucks.  If we give up too much, then Giannis decides to join Luka and Bucks end with nothing. Giannis has zero reason to support a kings ransom from his new team. S&T has no benefit to the player other than helping him get to a team without the cap space to sign him. It is actually in his interest to sign with cap space, because he can do a shorter deal and get a 35% max instead of being stuck on a 30% for 3 years. 

[GEORGIAfan 18,731]

1 hour ago, The Monarch said:

also, to just dump contracts to create space, we’ll need to attach assets in any event, maybe good ones.

Maybe. Depends on what other teams value Gallo and Capela. Neither are on bad contracts. Worse case we attach a 1st to each player and dangle that in the Knicks/OKC/Other Tanking team with Space's face. 

But that is cheaper than giving up Cam + Collins + picks that you think it will cost to do an S&T with the bucks. 

[FalconFanSince1970 24,761]

Boy we got stronger. Added scoring, shooting and defense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LouDog 4,915]

Kris Dunn is the only signing I'm not to pumped up about. Is there something about him that I dont know?

[FalconFanSince1970 24,761]

17 minutes ago, LouDog said:

Kris Dunn is the only signing I'm not to pumped up about. Is there something about him that I dont know?

I like him. Buddy can penetrate and play defense. Takes care of the ball too.

[FalconsIn2012 35,705]

3 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

I like him. Buddy can penetrate and play defense. Takes care of the ball too.

Yeah, I love Dunn.  Great defense and versatile scorer.  Schlenk called his contract a steal for the Hawks.  

He is a very underrated scorer.  When asked to score, he is very capable.  Two years ago he scored over 15 points in 28 of 54 games

[FalconsIn2012 35,705]

The Hawks roster accounted for 178 ppg in 2019...lol

[The Monarch 11,814]

4 hours ago, LouDog said:

Kris Dunn is the only signing I'm not to pumped up about. Is there something about him that I dont know?

He might be the best defensive guard in the NBA. A genuine ******* menace at the point of attack

[FalconFanSince1970 24,761]

41 minutes ago, The Monarch said:

He might be the best defensive guard in the NBA. A genuine ******* menace at the point of attack

Yep. Just look at him frustrating the hail out of people.

 

[LouDog 4,915]

1 hour ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Yep. Just look at him frustrating the hail out of people.

 

Ok. That was fun to watch lol

[The Monarch 11,814]

11 hours ago, LouDog said:

Ok. That was fun to watch lol

He really knows how to use that 6'9 wingspan to frustrate the **** out of his opponents. 

Also shows just how ridiculous that performance was by Trae against the bulls in his rookie year.

 

 

 

 

[DirtybyrdGA 1,301]

New players numbers..

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by DirtybyrdGA

[The Monarch 11,814]

23 minutes ago, DirtybyrdGA said:

New players numbers..

 

Fun fact, Gallo’s birthday is August 8, 1988 - 8/8/88. 

[The Monarch 11,814]

If (1) you're not already on Peachtree Hoops and (2) you would like a clear explanation of our current salary cap situation, I highly recommend this thread:

 

Atlanta Hawks Salary Cap: Recapping the 2020 ‘Off-Season’

[blkbigdog35 11,309]

This part of the article is of great concern for me!  I hope they can get this done!!

This is a point in time where it starts to make sense to engage in meaningful conversations with Collins about an extension. The reason is straight-forward, Collins’ cap hold no longer has a large benefit to the team, because Atlanta cannot clear meaningful cap space by keeping his small cap hold on the books. Atlanta will be over the cap with Collins’ cap hold at the start of the 2021 Off-Season and it would take moving some combination of Gallinari/Bogdanovic/Capela in order to make Collins’ small cap hold meaningful again.

All of this is not to say that I believe it is likely that there will be an extension between Collins and the Hawks prior to his December 21st deadline. Atlanta still has some incentive to let Collins set his market by asking him to enter Restricted Free Agency and find a deal, which would be capped at four seasons with 5% raises and can start no higher than 25% of the Salary Cap. Atlanta can actually offer Collins a contract for five seasons with 8% raises with a starting salary at 25% of the Salary Cap, but if Collins is not a highly valued player across the league then it does not make sense to overpay him and hinder your cap sheet in future years.

[DonOfThemBirds 19,154]

I don't know much about the cap situation regarding these moves for the Hawks, but could not resigning Collins and making a few other moves open up the path for the Hawks to make a run at Giannis next off-season? Possibly a sign and trade? Mike Budenholzer may be interested in John Collins if Giannis wants to move on? Collins was one of his draft picks when he was HC here.

 

It has been said that Bogdanovic was one of Giannis' top choices for the Bucks to get in FA. Maybe that's the Hawks long term plan along with Trae, Danilo, and a few of the young pieces to lure him to Atlanta?

 

Maybe Giannis would be willing to take a little bit less to play with a good bit of this roster? It'll at least catch his interest and serious consideration.

 

May not happen. All I'm saying is that the stars may finally be aligning really well for the Hawks.

[Spts1 6,879]

Half the teams in the league may be sniffing around Atlanta and trying to get Collins.  I see trade proposals daily on different blogs for him. Atlanta would be in a good position if they can't get a deal done because of the demand for him...

[Beef 3,432]

1 hour ago, Spts1 said:

Half the teams in the league may be sniffing around Atlanta and trying to get Collins.  I see trade proposals daily on different blogs for him. Atlanta would be in a good position if they can't get a deal done because of the demand for him...

Entering his 4th year and he’s already a 22/10 PF, and still improving. His ceiling is probably 25/12, which is freaking awesome by itself, but then he starts refining his defensive game.

No way TS let’s him go somewhere else. And TS has as much as already said this over and over.

Now add to this that JC has Trae Young as his point, Reddish is a budding 2/3 combo possible future superstar on the rise (and he!!, Hunter could be special too), we just signed a really good wing longterm, and we also have a legit Center and at least 3 legit bench players that half the teams in the league would likely start, along with what should be a much improved defense....

People are clamoring to sign an elite player like Giannis, but we are already set. At this point another big signing might make us worse. It would have to be the perfect deal for the perfect fit.

Meaning it doesn’t include Trae, JC, Bogi, Reddish, Hunter, Gallo, or Capela. Capela might be expendable depending one who that elite player is, but at the moment he's a part of the core we can’t do without.

That leaves Huerter, Okongwu, and future picks... or simply cash as our bargaining chips. And honestly, we don’t desperately need future picks for probably the next 3 years, so we realistically have A LOT of capital to bargain with.

TS isn’t going to give up what we have to add a unicorn. We should be at least 5-6 seed with the current roster, and maybe even surprise for much better.  Then the 2-3 following years we should be disappointed if we’re not in the East finals or better.

 

Oh, btw, F the Celtics.

[Spts1 6,879]

40 minutes ago, Beef said:

Entering his 4th year and he’s already a 22/10 PF, and still improving. His ceiling is probably 25/12, which is freaking awesome by itself, but then he starts refining his defensive game.

No way TS let’s him go somewhere else. And TS has as much as already said this over and over.

Now add to this that JC has Trae Young as his point, Reddish is a budding 2/3 combo possible future superstar on the rise (and he!!, Hunter could be special too), we just signed a really good wing longterm, and we also have a legit Center and at least 3 legit bench players that half the teams in the league would likely start, along with what should be a much improved defense....

People are clamoring to sign an elite player like Giannis, but we are already set. At this point another big signing might make us worse. It would have to be the perfect deal for the perfect fit.

Meaning it doesn’t include Trae, JC, Bogi, Reddish, Hunter, Gallo, or Capela. Capela might be expendable depending one who that elite player is, but at the moment he's a part of the core we can’t do without.

That leaves Huerter, Okongwu, and future picks... or simply cash as our bargaining chips. And honestly, we don’t desperately need future picks for probably the next 3 years, so we realistically have A LOT of capital to bargain with.

TS isn’t going to give up what we have to add a unicorn. We should be at least 5-6 seed with the current roster, and maybe even surprise for much better.  Then the 2-3 following years we should be disappointed if we’re not in the East finals or better.

 

Oh, btw, F the Celtics.

I agree. I especially agree that Giannis isn't someone I would trade the farm for. I've seen enough of him in the playoffs that his offensive game isn’t worth it.

  On a side note, I would still take my Celtics starting five over the Hawks, but, the Hawks have the deeper team, potentially, by a lot. And as far as the starting five go, the Hawks have the better point guard and center (Collins or Capela).  Heck. They have the potential to have a better starting five. They just got to prove it.  The GM did a fantastic job this off season.

[jayu70 2,010]

On 11/28/2020 at 3:01 AM, DonOfThemBirds said:

I don't know much about the cap situation regarding these moves for the Hawks, but could not resigning Collins and making a few other moves open up the path for the Hawks to make a run at Giannis next off-season? Possibly a sign and trade? Mike Budenholzer may be interested in John Collins if Giannis wants to move on? Collins was one of his draft picks when he was HC here.

It has been said that Bogdanovic was one of Giannis' top choices for the Bucks to get in FA. Maybe that's the Hawks long term plan along with Trae, Danilo, and a few of the young pieces to lure him to Atlanta?

Maybe Giannis would be willing to take a little bit less to play with a good bit of this roster? It'll at least catch his interest and serious consideration.

May not happen. All I'm saying is that the stars may finally be aligning really well for the Hawks.

Hawks won't have any capspace next offseason even without resigning Collins now.  His caphold for next season is $12 million, which would put us right at the expected salary cap of $112 millon.

What the Hawks do have, are contracts of players on reasonable deals, young players on rookie deals and picks to offer for Giannis.

[MAD597 7,497]

1 hour ago, jayu70 said:

Hawks won't have any capspace next offseason even without resigning Collins now.  His caphold for next season is $12 million, which would put us right at the expected salary cap of $112 millon.

What the Hawks do have, are contracts of players on reasonable deals, young players on rookie deals and picks to offer for Giannis.

I think they need to extend Collins long term, not sure why he is always being rumored as trade bait and being let go but he is a core player to the long term success of this team and needs to kept long term.