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Speculation: Maybe TD was holding on to draft picks to not admit he was wrong


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12 hours ago, shockerfalcon said:

TD isn't innocent but why does everyone continuously discount the influence DQ had on the roster? Definitely Beasly and possibly Takk were 100% DQ guys. It's been reported before that bringing Beasly back was DQ's ego driven choice. Looking at the talent on the roster a lot of it is homegrown all drafted by TD. 

Because TD's issues go back to Mike Smith as well. TD could not build the OL or DL, TD's picks along the trenches 9 times out of 10 failed. It did not matter who the Head coach or DC or OL coaches were this team had issues protecting the QB and pass rushing the opposing QB for nearly the entire time TD was GM.

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Since the thread is mostly about in-house decisions and picks... One of TDs mistakes has been overpaying to keep some of the kids that should have walked. Freeman was a 50/50 only because RBs ten

TD wasn’t the problem. It was Quinn who convinced organization to keep VB. 

TD isn't innocent but why does everyone continuously discount the influence DQ had on the roster? Definitely Beasly and possibly Takk were 100% DQ guys. It's been reported before that bringing Beasly

6 minutes ago, MAD597 said:

Because TD's issues go back to Mike Smith as well. TD could not build the OL or DL, TD's picks along the trenches 9 times out of 10 failed. It did not matter who the Head coach or DC or OL coaches were this team had issues protecting the QB and pass rushing the opposing QB for nearly the entire time TD was GM.

But still built teams that should have at least won the big game.

But for the first time in franchise history put back to back winning and playoff seasons together.

8 playoff appearances in 42 seasons before he got here.6 in 12 years when he was the guy.

And all this without an Oline dline or pass rush according to you.If that’s the case like you say you make TD look like a ******** genius.How is that possible to do what he did when past GMs of the Falcons were lightyears better in that area lost like they did 😂 

See how this stuff works.

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48 minutes ago, papachaz said:

my only rebuttal to that is, we had the same GM when that happened, and the second time was the HC who supposedly had complete control over personnel, both staff and roster. the owner doesn't hire an OC, the coach does. the owner DID however hire that pitiful excuse of a HC twice

Yeah, but TDs responsibility change depending on the argument brought against him.  In this very thread there are people saying he did and didn't have a say in the roster, both sides arguing in favor of Dimitrioff.  I would certainly never argue the current owner is in the same ballpark as the previous owner, but sometimes it's everyone's responsibility to make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot.

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20 minutes ago, opensource001 said:

Yeah, but TDs responsibility change depending on the argument brought against him.  In this very thread there are people saying he did and didn't have a say in the roster, both sides arguing in favor of Dimitrioff.  I would certainly never argue the current owner is in the same ballpark as the previous owner, but sometimes it's everyone's responsibility to make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot.

:tiphat:

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42 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

But still built teams that should have at least won the big game.

But for the first time in franchise history put back to back winning and playoff seasons together.

8 playoff appearances in 42 seasons before he got here.6 in 12 years when he was the guy.

And all this without an Oline dline or pass rush according to you.If that’s the case like you say you make TD look like a ******** genius.How is that possible to do what he did when past GMs of the Falcons were lightyears better in that area lost like they did 😂 

See how this stuff works.

9 out of 10 failed.....

 

let's see, Lindstrom, McCary, Matthews, there's 3 good ones right off the top of my head. Yeah, I remember konz, holmes.....

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21 hours ago, Dukeduke211 said:

I am pretty sure all of us would want to give guys we picked a chance to develop and succeed. Not give uo to soon. 

Yep. Not sure why the boards get caught in weird mentality:

Takk’s main problem was always health.

He was still leading this team in QB hits with half the games played for several weeks.

Dude just Cant stay healthy or stop himself from toxic mentality over his struggles with health and team performance woes; goes off out of frustration on social media.

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17 minutes ago, papachaz said:

well he was talking about the draft though wasn't he? 2 of those were FA and one was undrafted FA if memory serves me correctly, am I right? but still, to continue the train of thought, he DID over see getting them here

 

Who knows, FF70 is gonna diss TD no matter what papa. :ninja:
 

Finding an UDFA (Schraeder) who eventually became a Top 10 NFL RT is way more impressive to me than drafting one in 1st-2nd round. 

My bigger point is we’ve had some good OLs here....2008-10,  2016-2017 were all Top 10 NFL OLs....

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5 hours ago, opensource001 said:

C

The current Falcons also hired Dirk Koetter twice.  Yes, I know he's not Marion Campbell bad but still shows a lack of learning.

The only reason this even happened is because Quinn didn’t have a GOOD plan to replace Kyle and this highlighted his struggles as a HC: inability to set up and maintain a good coaching staff while playing role of HC

I mean we abandoned investing beyond year 2 for Sark after not hiring internally LaFleur etc and then the plan was Dirk and himself as coordinators. Sark and Manuel were scapegoated. Quinn stunk as DC and so far Ryan hasn’t topped his 2018 production with Sark and the run game itself is nowhere near 2017’s efficiency even though we have volume output out of sheer will of TG trying to make something out of the NOTHING that is Koetter’s run “scheme/system”...

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15 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Who knows, FF70 is gonna diss TD no matter what papa. :ninja:

My point is we’ve had some good OLs here....2008-10,  2016-2017 were all Top 10 OLs....

Since the thread is mostly about in-house decisions and picks...

One of TDs mistakes has been overpaying to keep some of the kids that should have walked. Freeman was a 50/50 only because RBs tend to fall off fast and Free was in part a product of Shanny’s system no question. Trufant was never the best scheme fit for Quinn so paying him was somewhat weird given his injury at the time but we were desperate.

Biggest internal mistakes that are blatant were contracts to Sam Baker. Oft-injured and when healthy only a decent LT. It’d be like a worse Matthews with injury problems. 1 good year and then Falcon for life? We tried recreating the Michael Turner role a few times now with SJax and now Gurley but the main issue since Mulakey’s days as OC have been Dirk. He doesn’t elevate a run game. It’s bland and forced. He would more quickly run a dude into the ground than be consistently creative at getting yards.

I digress...not the best at drafting the trenches. He still hit on guys like Matthews and Grady. Peters was good. So was Wes for his round. We missed worst on the relatively higher picks like Konz, Holmes, and yes Baker. Other OL and DL busts. Jerry, Vic (outside of fluky 2016) and oft-injured Takk compared to TJ going to Pitt...

That’s probably the biggest weakness with TD but as you indicated he was smart with FA signings to supplement his issues with LoS; pre-Brown and Carp anyway (who is still playing decent now, but isn’t really a fit for wide zone; not that we’d run that with DK :doh: !)...
If we hit on another lineman pre-OL collapse in 2018...we never get desperate.

Similar can be said about our pass rush.

Still: 1 clear SB that coaching and players choked

And another strong shot at SB lost by coaching. Turner was worn out in 2012; despite decent stats and didn’t he get hurt in the playoff game?...and Abe With the ankle injury entering those playoffs.

Speaking of which:

Dont we win the SB more so if AC and Mack were healthy and fully available? Shame...

TD was a solid B GM overall. Upper 3rd guy IMO. Upgradeable? Sure. We can also downgrade easily.

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On 11/10/2020 at 7:13 PM, fuego said:

Also Devonta Freeman. Never should have given him that big contract. It was obvious he wasn't going to get any better.

In hindsight the Free extension was a mistake but I feel like coming off the Super Bowl you risk hurting the team chemistry if you don't reward a key cog.  Free in his prime was one of the best runners pound for pound not to mention what he brought to the passing game.  

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On 11/10/2020 at 6:19 PM, DriveHomeSafelyAtlantaWins said:

So, we all mostly thought it was crazy to renew Beasley's 5th year option -- but the Falcons did it anyway. Maybe that was due to TD wanting to "be right" about the pick he made?

Now, we see Takk actually released. Maybe that should've been done a while ago, but TD wouldn't consider it because he wanted to "be right" about his draft pick?

And if so ... that kind of bu11sht can sap a team of energy and drive.

I would say all GM's do this with their own draft picks to a large extent to be proven right.  Without the dominate 2016 season for Beasley I doubt we pick up his 5th year option however. 

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On 11/10/2020 at 6:19 PM, DriveHomeSafelyAtlantaWins said:

So, we all mostly thought it was crazy to renew Beasley's 5th year option -- but the Falcons did it anyway. Maybe that was due to TD wanting to "be right" about the pick he made?

Now, we see Takk actually released. Maybe that should've been done a while ago, but TD wouldn't consider it because he wanted to "be right" about his draft pick?

And if so ... that kind of bu11sht can sap a team of energy and drive.

You MIGHT have a legitimate point. This team has had sacred cows that were drafted under TD.  Dudes ego may be his biggest flaw.

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It's worth noting sometimes players do get better. Eric Ebron was pretty mediocre for a couple years but then became one of the best TE's in the NFL and lived up to his draft status. Garrett Bolles was flat out lousy for a long time but this year is playing really well. Jason Verrett was great in flashes but couldn't stay healthy and is now finally healthy and playing great. Our own Robert Alford was forgettable for many years before putting together a really solid run for a few years. You genuinely do have to give players with potential time to grow. 

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21 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

But still built teams that should have at least won the big game.

But for the first time in franchise history put back to back winning and playoff seasons together.

8 playoff appearances in 42 seasons before he got here.6 in 12 years when he was the guy.

And all this without an Oline dline or pass rush according to you.If that’s the case like you say you make TD look like a ******** genius.How is that possible to do what he did when past GMs of the Falcons were lightyears better in that area lost like they did 😂 

See how this stuff works.

Nope, TD built lopsided teams with fancy hood ornaments that always failed on the trenches and had poor defense. As we saw that type of team only gets you so far. That's why we blow leads so much and why we lost the SB etc.

TD teams have a definite build to them and we saw that they could only go so far, Multiple head coaches, multiple DC's and OC's and dozens of coordinators while TD was here and yet our teams had a very similar theme and issues to them this whole time. That's on TD and why he was fired.

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On 11/10/2020 at 6:19 PM, DriveHomeSafelyAtlantaWins said:

So, we all mostly thought it was crazy to renew Beasley's 5th year option -- but the Falcons did it anyway. Maybe that was due to TD wanting to "be right" about the pick he made?

Now, we see Takk actually released. Maybe that should've been done a while ago, but TD wouldn't consider it because he wanted to "be right" about his draft pick?

And if so ... that kind of bu11sht can sap a team of energy and drive.

Hear me out, but I think Beasley deserved his 5th year option. He led the league in sacks, then was forced to change positions, then switched back, then had another DC. There’s a lot of mitigating circumstances with his. 

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1 hour ago, MAD597 said:

Nope, TD built lopsided teams with fancy hood ornaments that always failed on the trenches and had poor defense. As we saw that type of team only gets you so far. That's why we blow leads so much and why we lost the SB etc.

TD teams have a definite build to them and we saw that they could only go so far, Multiple head coaches, multiple DC's and OC's and dozens of coordinators while TD was here and yet our teams had a very similar theme and issues to them this whole time. That's on TD and why he was fired.

But how did his teams win.

Without what you mention.

He repaired a train wreck in 07 came out of the gate winning.

We all know coaching has been the issue the last 3 years.

Weve had a chance twice to win it all in that time without what you say hows that possible.

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1 hour ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Hear me out, but I think Beasley deserved his 5th year option. He led the league in sacks, then was forced to change positions, then switched back, then had another DC. There’s a lot of mitigating circumstances with his. 

Fair enough. I disagree, but I can see where you're coming from.

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