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Response to those against trading Ryan


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LOL, you lost me coming out of the gate with this BS. 

Its like dead cap doesnt mean anything to these people.

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3 hours ago, Intellectually Honest said:

First off, I have yet to read that anyone on the forum has said, implied or alluded to that Ryan is the reason why the Falcons are bad. So every time someone makes that Ryan ISN'T the reason the team is bad therefore the Falcons shouldn't trade him, it is irrelevant, and they are not responding to what is being said.

We agree that Ryan is NOT the reason the Falcons are doing poorly this year. He IS VERY GOOD but his IS old, football wise however. His best days are behind him. As good as he is now, it won't stay that way. Most agree that the defense is the main reason why the Falcons are not doing well, other than the coaching.

Here is the point I have made, and others agree to it:

By the time this team fixes the defense, and is good enough to make it to the playoffs, Ryan will either will be aged out, or near it. If Ryan was unable to win a SB when he was younger, with a team that fans want to see the Falcons return to, why would anyone believe sometime in the future, in a couple of years, Ryan will be good enough to win one then?

Even if that scenario did occur, and you lack faith as I do, that Ryan AT THAT TIME, will be good enough to win one, why risk wasting a chance at drafting a highly touted POTENTIALLY franchise QB that will likely require at least a top 5 pick to snag one?

 

For me anyway, the team either is transitioning or will transition dramatically in the near future. Why delay the inevitable?

I never really agree with you at all, I believe this is the first time actually.

Ryan is definitely not the issue with this team. However he is regressing, and he has been for the past two years. I give him another two years before he falls off a cliff. Last year I got flamed for suggesting we take Tua if he happened to fall to our pick. This would have given him 3 years to heal and learn then start, if not sooner. You would have thought I violated someone’s mother with the responses I received.

It’s not impossible but highly improbable that Ryan can win a SB with this team as is. There’s way too much repair to be done. We have a good foundation but building a house takes time. This is time that Ryan doesn’t have in my opinion.

Unfortunately trading/releasing Ryan isn’t a prudent option until 2022. We could do it after June 2021 but we’re still in the hole for a lot of money.

The wisest decision would be to keep Ryan and draft his replacement this year. Let him learn under Ryan for a season or two. Let him adjust and adapt to the game, then set him loose. By that time we could possibly have created a scenario where we can succeed consistently to life after Ryan.

Now while I do agree with you I’m going to address the issue you’ve alluded to in this post. There are a lot of us that have seen the regression of Ryan and how it could potentially affect this team’s future. Most of the time the subject of Ryan is broached in a much more tactful manner than most.

The problem lies in the fact that you are the one trying to piggyback off this premise. You’ve created a persona in which you constantly criticize Ryan. This isn’t a recent thing either, you’ve been doing it for years. That’s why you are met with such vitriol.

When ever anyone brings up Ryan in a critical but fair way, you’re one of the main reasons why those posters get flamed. Other posters see that post and instantly react because they’ve seen the nonsense that gets spewed. That isn’t to say that there aren’t “Ryan nut huggers” out there, of course there are; just like there are “Ryan haters” out there. However they make up a small percentage of the fanbase. You’ve made your image as that of a Ryan hater. If you’re met with criticism, it’s of your on making. 

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1 minute ago, Vandy said:

I’m not assuming much of anything with you, IH. Just laying out why I disagree with your bad take.

While pondering that truth, Chew on this one too:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/04/13/nfl-draft-looking-back-at-the-cant-miss-qbs-who-missed/amp/

 

To argue either position  requires common ground. You can't argue against a point I made, if we cant even agree on how we perceive the team in the first place. That is why I keep mentioning the straw man.

It's under the assumption people believe that I thought the team needs to be tweaked. They assumed I believed those tweaks needed to be a rookie QB and they assumed I thought the team would turn it around in one year. Problem is they never bother to freaking ask.

You can't agree on a conclusion if you don't agree on the premises.

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3 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I never really agree with you at all, I believe this is the first time actually.

Ryan is definitely not the issue with this team. However he is regressing, and he has been for the past two years. I give him another two years before he falls off a cliff. Last year I got flamed for suggesting we take Tua if he happened to fall to our pick. This would have given him 3 years to heal and learn then start, if not sooner. You would have thought I violated someone’s mother with the responses I received.

It’s not impossible but highly improbable that Ryan can win a SB with this team as is. There’s way too much repair to be done. We have a good foundation but building a house takes time. This is time that Ryan doesn’t have in my opinion.

Unfortunately trading/releasing Ryan isn’t a prudent option until 2022. We could do it after June 2021 but we’re still in the hole for a lot of money.

The wisest decision would be to keep Ryan and draft his replacement this year. Let him learn under Ryan for a season or two. Let him adjust and adapt to the game, then set him loose. By that time we could possibly have created a scenario where we can succeed consistently to life after Ryan.

Now while I do agree with you I’m going to address the issue you’ve alluded to in this post. There are a lot of us that have seen the regression of Ryan and how it could potentially affect this team’s future. Most of the time the subject of Ryan is broached in a much more tactful manner than most.

The problem lies in the fact that you are the one trying to piggyback off this premise. You’ve created a persona in which you constantly criticize Ryan. This isn’t a recent thing either, you’ve been doing it for years. That’s why you are met with such vitriol.

When ever anyone brings up Ryan in a critical but fair way, you’re one of the main reasons why those posters get flamed. Other posters see that post and instantly react because they’ve seen the nonsense that gets spewed. That isn’t to say that there aren’t “Ryan nut huggers” out there, of course there are; just like there are “Ryan haters” out there. However they make up a small percentage of the fanbase. You’ve made your image as that of a Ryan hater. If you’re met with criticism, it’s of your on making. 

The team is going to be in a hole because of the cap with or without Ryan. TD and Quinn drafted and signed players poorly. Team is going to struggle winning because it requires the team to improve. That is going to come back to drafting and structuring player contracts. Right now money IS an issue. Let's not pretend it is only an issue if we trade Ryan. 

Fans need to come to reality that TD and Quinn has put this team in a hole via the cap. It isn't going away.

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2 hours ago, 1989Fan said:

If you have an top QB, you don’t move on from him unless you feel you have as good a replacement (or better) already in house.

Favre - Rodgers waiting

Montana - Young waiting

Smith (though not elite) - Mahommes waiting

Brees - Rivers waiting

Warner - Manning waiting

IMO, drafting a QB to groom isn’t the item in question, it’s trading Ryan now that is downright stupid.

^This.

It’s never a bad idea to have two good QBs in the roster. Nor is drafting a QB in any way guaranteeing they will take over for Ryan, or do better/worse than him.

A lot of posters assume that when a person says we need to draft QB that we automatically want to get rid of Ryan instantly.

Finding a better QB would be nice but that’s not the ultimate goal. The goal is to extend the window by which our QB play won’t drop off. This is because unless you have an elite defense, you can’t win with a sub par QB. 

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Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it

 

Because you know dead cap...

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Just now, AllStarHandyMan said:

Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it

 

Because you know dead cap...

Team has cap space issues with or without dead cap. Your point is irrelevent.

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13 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

To argue either position  requires common ground. You can't argue against a point I made, if we cant even agree on how we perceive the team in the first place. That is why I keep mentioning the straw man.

It's under the assumption people believe that I thought the team needs to be tweaked. They assumed I believed those tweaks needed to be a rookie QB and they assumed I thought the team would turn it around in one year. Problem is they never bother to freaking ask.

You can't agree on a conclusion if you don't agree on the premises.

Speaking of ‘straw man’....”Never bothered to freaking ask”? LOL, get out of here with that nonsense.

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1 minute ago, Intellectually Honest said:

No. THat is your straw man. LOL.

You make no sense... you put " Team has cap space issues with or without dead cap. Your point is irrelevent..." so you want to trade ryan. Because that's what your post is about... that makes us in more dead cap trouble... lol 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Yes. WHen have you or those who agree with your position ever asked what my position is?

That’s not exactly how sport chats work. Not saying it shouldn’t be so, but my experience is, you yourself need to walk that talk first in order to institute that type of change.

Good luck.

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4 minutes ago, AllStarHandyMan said:

You make no sense... you put " Team has cap space issues with or without dead cap. Your point is irrelevent..." so you want to trade ryan. Because that's what your post is about... that makes us in more dead cap trouble... lol 

 

 

You have no idea what the difference between a premise and an argument is.

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1 minute ago, Intellectually Honest said:

The team is going to be in a hole because of the cap with or without Ryan. TD and Quinn drafted and signed players poorly. Team is going to struggle winning because it requires the team to improve. That is going to come back to drafting and structuring player contracts. Right now money IS an issue. Let's not pretend it is only an issue if we trade Ryan. 

Fans need to come to reality that TD and Quinn has put this team in a hole via the cap. It isn't going away.

There’s a difference between money being an issue and money being wasted. Ryan can still be useful to this team. In my opinion he has another 2 years left. That’s 2 years of knowledge and mentorship he can provide for his successor. That’s more valuable than the potential 3rd round pick we are likely to be offered for Ryan, as is.

Lets say in the off chance that a team offers us a 1st round, yes you have that conversation about trading him. It will eventually go away with the right leadership. Just because we are in cap h@ll now doesn’t mean we’ll be in cap h@ll in two seasons. However you need to put this team in the best position possible to succeed, digging our dead money issue deeper so that we can’t sign potential players to help our new QB isn’t intelligent. You’re setting him up for failure. As well as the team. 

 

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1 minute ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

There’s a difference between money being an issue and money being wasted. Ryan can still be useful to this team. In my opinion he has another 2 years left. That’s 2 years of knowledge and mentorship he can provide for his successor. That’s more valuable than the potential 3rd round pick we are likely to be offered for Ryan, as is.

Lets say in the off chance that a team offers us a 1st round, yes you have that conversation about trading him. It will eventually go away with the right leadership. Just because we are in cap h@ll now doesn’t mean we’ll be in cap h@ll in two seasons. However you need to put this team in the best position possible to succeed, digging our dead money issue deeper so that we can’t sign potential players to help our new QB isn’t intelligent. You’re setting him up for failure. As well as the team. 

 

We still don't fundamentally agree on the overall strength of the team, which is the biggest issue.  Correct me if I am wrong. But it seems your position is you think the team just needs to be tweaked a little to be a legit SB contender, and we need Ryan to have that. Is that correct?

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The Falcons went from "having the talent to win the Super Bowl" in the offseason to "having absolutely no talent and they need to get rid of Ryan while he still has value because they're years away from ever even making the playoffs again much less winning a Super Bowl." How in the world did that happen in only 5 games? Please answer this question.

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Just now, AUTiger7222 said:

The Falcons went from "having the talent to win the Super Bowl" in the offseason to "having absolutely no talent and they need to get rid of Ryan while he still has value because they're years away from ever even making the playoffs again much less winning a Super Bowl." How in the world did that happen in only 5 games? Please answer this question.

I didnt believe the team was talented enough to win the Super Bowl in this past offseason. Who are you talking about? So you are asking a loaded question. I have no idea why you thought I believe the team went from SB contender to years away in 5 games.

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1 minute ago, Intellectually Honest said:

I didnt believe the team was talented enough to win the Super Bowl in this past offseason. Who are you talking about? So you are asking a loaded question. I have no idea why you thought I believe the team went from SB contender to years away in 5 games.

You're not the only one that wants to get rid of Ryan and Julio and whoever else has value for draft picks.

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14 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

You have no idea what the difference between a premise and an argument is.

a statement or idea taken to be true and on which an argument or reasoning may be based. 2 premises plural : a piece of land with the buildings on it

now you really confusing me your not talking about a piece of land right?.... if not it most be a statement or idea that you take to be true and on which this argument is based on.... hahahahah 

Here another movie quote for you... this time from buzz  "You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity."

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