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Response to those against trading Ryan


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2 minutes ago, Jerz #GurleySZN said:

How long would you give Big ben?

Ben is so hard to read. Physically he’s always been more talented than Ryan. However he’s taken WAY more punishment than I’ve seen any QB take. Dude doesn’t go down. I honestly don’t know. I’m almost convinced the dude is Frankenstein. Lol 

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LOL, you lost me coming out of the gate with this BS. 

Its like dead cap doesnt mean anything to these people.

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1 minute ago, the baptist said:

I'm giving you the point, for whatever reason you seem to be missing, I believe its intentional because you refuse to accept it from me, coming from anyone else you might be open but because its me, you cant be wrong, I get it

The reason your belief is and will remain to be false, is because Tom Brady will always be in the Goat conversation, if he did not perform and he was Terry Bradshaw, Tom Brady would be Terry Bradshaw, but there is a reason Tom Brady is in the Goat conversation

Which is a misdirection you are using to get away from the fact that Matt Ryan, no matter what statistic you bring up, will never be in any conversation about Tom Brady....well.....wait a minute....that's false

Clear and concise? Matt Ryan is not Tom Brady in any way form or fashion, I've said it before, but Ill keep saying it if you need me too

Maybe I just don't understand where you are standing, because you are obviously not talking about Superbowls, so that's where I get ignorant, because there is nothing else that counts to me.....

 

 

I’m not comparing their legacy or Superbowls. I’m under the impression that you’re crediting SB wins solely to the QB position position. I’m saying that wins/losses are a team stats, regardless who is at the QB position and regardless of if it’s the SB. The Super Bowl is still a game and it’s won or lost by teams, not individuals.

I’ve never said that Ryan is Brady. You keep giving scenarios where Brady would have succeeded where Ryan failed. Then compound it with Ryan would have failed where Brady succeeded. You’re the one using individuals as examples. I even stated it’s not quantifiable to do that. But you avoid that point because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

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3 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Ben is so hard to read. Physically he’s always been more talented than Ryan. However he’s taken WAY more punishment than I’ve seen any QB take. Dude doesn’t go down. I honestly don’t know. I’m almost convinced the dude is Frankenstein. Lol 

Lol thats what I’m saying as I’ve been analyzing him a bit lately. Ben has always had nifty feet and a freaking cannon, but not to mention every football injury in the book. He’s tough as nails but made of glass yet always bounces back to regular form. 

I’m just intrigued of how his cannon of an arm and his solid mobility may allow him to play longer than anybody expected.

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Just now, Jerz #GurleySZN said:

Lol thats what I’m saying as I’ve been analyzing him a bit lately. Ben has always had nifty feet and a freaking cannon, but not to mention every football injury in the book. He’s tough as nails but made of glass yet always bounces back to regular form. 

I’m just intrigued of how his cannon of an arm and his solid mobility may allow him to play longer than anybody expected.

He’s regressed but not as much as you would expect. And then there were seasons he looked like absolute $hit then bounced back and played lights out the next. 

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Just now, Lornoth said:

I don't feel like subjecting myself to the totality of this thread: how many have pointed out we literally can't because of the cap so far?

A lot lol. The closest we could come is off-season of 2021, a post June cut. And even then it’s a pretty big cap hit. My stance is to draft his replacement in the upcoming draft and let Ryan mentor him for 1-2 years. Keep Ryan until 2022 and then either cut/trade him.  

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6 minutes ago, Lornoth said:

I don't feel like subjecting myself to the totality of this thread: how many have pointed out we literally can't because of the cap so far?

Below are posts back on page 1.

On 10/24/2020 at 8:28 AM, ROMERO said:

Its like dead cap doesnt mean anything to these people.

 

On 10/24/2020 at 8:56 AM, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Please go look at the cap ramifications of trading Ryan then delete thread. Thanks in advance!

Yet, here we are...2A45F05D-66FE-471E-96BA-7302A7741CD1.jpeg.c1c4a2715f27a10913df51c3d060c199.jpeg

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3 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

He’s regressed but not as much as you would expect. And then there were seasons he looked like absolute $hit then bounced back and played lights out the next. 

Thats just Ben for you. He probably plays with injuries that don’t end his season all the time. Thing is he’s still dropping dimes, firing bullets and birthing new up and coming receivers thats going to get paid later. He holds the bottom from falling out until the Steelers luck into a perfect storm.

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2 minutes ago, Jerz #GurleySZN said:

Thats just Ben for you. He probably plays with injuries that don’t end his season all the time. Thing is he’s still dropping dimes, firing bullets and birthing new up and coming receivers thats going to get paid later. He holds the bottom from falling out until the Steelers luck into a perfect storm.

Other than Ryan, he’s the toughest QB I’ve ever seen. 

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Just now, Lornoth said:

Only a Ryan thread could go 13+ pages after the premise is shown to be impossible on page 1. lol

This is what happened when Ryan haters and huggers go at each other. There’s no room for nuance.

If you want to draft a QB next season. You’re a Ryan hater.

If you want to keep Ryan, you’re a Ryan hugger.

The logical approach is to accept that both sides have equal validation and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Here are some truths.

Ryan is old and regressing.

Ryan’s contract means we can’t release/trade him in the near future.

Ryan’s window of being effective is limited.

Drafting his replacement in the upcoming draft is prudent.

His replacement won’t be starting right away.

We are not a SB caliber team, and we won’t be in the next two years.

Drafting a QB isn’t because we don’t have faith in Ryan. It’s preparing for a future after Ryan. We are in a rebuild mode  

 

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2 hours ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

You stated that Brady was the reason they won all their SBs. Proved that wrong with one five second google search about Brady’s first SB. 

 

 

I'm sorry I did skip past your false accusations, and this may be the root of your problem....maybe you jumped in past the point

Vandys rebuttal to "Matt Ryan hasn't done anything as good a Tom Brady" was  Matt Ryan's QB Rating 

Fast Forward, since winning is abnormal to Matt Ryan fans, 6 Championships to Zero, rebuttal, didn't assign credit, but if you believe the Franchise QB has little to do with 6 ships, no rebuttal needed

You come in with.....Matt Ryan had a better performance in his first Superbowl compared to Tom Brady

My rebuttal....still the same....still the same, not dodging but rendering the point irrelevant

Who won.....Who loss....."Its a team stat"...

So, what am I missing here, you bring up an individual performance, to prove what? and then come back and say its a team stat?

We talked about your contradictory methods

 

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8 minutes ago, the baptist said:

I'm sorry I did skip past your false accusations, and this may be the root of your problem....maybe you jumped in past the point

Vandys rebuttal to "Matt Ryan hasn't done anything as good a Tom Brady" was  Matt Ryan's QB Rating 

Fast Forward, since winning is abnormal to Matt Ryan fans, 6 Championships to Zero, rebuttal, didn't assign credit, but if you believe the Franchise QB has little to do with 6 ships, no rebuttal needed

You come in with.....Matt Ryan had a better performance in his first Superbowl compared to Tom Brady

My rebuttal....still the same....still the same, not dodging but rendering the point irrelevant

Who won.....Who loss....."Its a team stat"...

So, what am I missing here, you bring up an individual performance, to prove what? and then come back and say its a team stat?

We talked about your contradictory methods

 

My first post was that wins are a team stat. Your rebuttal was a “yeah but....results.”. “Tom Brady is the Goat.”, “Ryan is not better than Brady at anything at any point.” “Brady has 6 rings. Ryan has zero” Etc.

YOU’RE the one interjected the individualism into the conversation as it relates to wins. Which is factually inaccurate. This is your strawman argument.

I’ve made rebuttals addressing your criticisms on an individual level and reiterated my claims that football is a team sport and wins/losses are a team stat.

You have yet to agree that wins/losses are a team stat because it destroys the strawman you’ve created. So I’ll simply ask you again.

Are wins/losses a team stat or an individual stat?

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4 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

My first post was that wins are a team stat. Your rebuttal was a “yeah but....results.”. “Tom Brady is the Goat.”, “Ryan is not better than Brady at anything at any point.” “Brady has 6 rings. Ryan has zero” Etc.

YOU’RE the one interjected the individualism into the conversation as it relates to wins. Which is factually inaccurate. This is your strawman argument.

I’ve made rebuttals addressing your criticisms on an individual level and reiterated my claims that football is a team sport and wins/losses are a team stat.

You have yet to agree that wins/losses are a team stat because it destroys the strawman you’ve created. So I’ll simply ask you again.

Are wins/losses a team stat or an individual stat?

Say again?...Who brought up Matt Ryan's Superbowl performance as compared to Tom brady?

Doesnt matter what you label it, If the The Atlanta Falcons Lose, does Matt Ryan lose?

 

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Just now, the baptist said:

Say again?...Who brought up Matt Ryan's Superbowl performance as compared to Tom brady?

Doesnt matter what you label it, If the The Atlanta Falcons Lose, does Matt Ryan lose?

 

No no no. I already stated the sequence of events. Don’t act ignorant.

Still avoiding the question. Lol this is comical. I’ll ask again.

Are wins/losses a team stat or an individual stat?

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8 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

No no no. I already stated the sequence of events. Don’t act ignorant.

Still avoiding the question. Lol this is comical. I’ll ask again.

Are wins/losses a team stat or an individual stat?

That was the sequence as it concerns me and you, Vandy brought in the QB rating, "individual stat", you double up with his first Superbowl performance as compared to Tom Brady...Who by the way won his game

Then you both along with the groupies come back with this "Its a team stat" bologna 

If the Falcons lose, Does Matt Ryan Lose? 

Keep forgetting to break it down....I've already answered your question, inside the question, again I do not avoid

 

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4 minutes ago, the baptist said:

That was the sequence as it concerns me and you, Vandy brought in the QB rating, "individual stat", you double up with his first Superbowl performance as compare to Tom Brady...Who by the way won his game

Then you both along with the groupies come back with this "Its a team stat" bologna 

If the Falcons lose, Does Matt Ryan Lose? 

Keep forgetting to break it down....I've already answered your question, inside the question, again I do not avoid

 

Lmfao yes but I never brought up QB rating at all. What does @Vandy’s argument have to do with my argument.

I compared the games because you stated that Ryan wouldn’t have won ANY of the SBs Brady was is, if he was in the same position. I even said that is wasn’t quantifiable. Then went to state their respective performances in their 1st SB games. Again...YOUR argument. Lol

Oh sweetie, this is just getting sad for you at this point. You’ve curtailed the issue so many times because it destroys your narrative. And you have yet to answer this simple question.

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4 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Lmfao yes but I never brought up QB rating at all. What does @Vandy’s argument have to do with my argument.

I compared the games because you stated that Ryan wouldn’t have won ANY of the SBs Brady was is, if he was in the same position. I even said that is wasn’t quantifiable. Then went to state their respective performances in their 1st SB games. Again...YOUR argument. Lol

Oh sweetie, this is just getting sad for you at this point. You’ve curtailed the issue so many times because it destroys your narrative. And you have yet to answer this simple question.

Both of your arguments are based off of individual performances are they not?

So him losing in real games is not "quantifiable" because its a "team stat"?

But you using his individual performance vs Tom Brady's to prove that he "might have won a game" is?

If the Falcons lose, Does Matt Ryan lose?

When you answer mine, you will answer yours....

 

 

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I think as fans we can agree the cap situation is bad. Real bad. We are going to be Troffed for the next several years even though Troff is gone. Maybe the cap situation is so bad that we are stuck with Ryan whether we like it or not.

In either case, if life was fair, Ryan parting ways with the Falcons would be best for both. Ryan needs a better team to win a SB, if he can. Falcons need cap space back to start fresh and start the rebuilding process. But life isn't fair.

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Just now, the baptist said:

Both of your arguments are based off of individual performances are they not?

So him losing in real games is not "quantifiable" because its a "team stat"?

But you using his individual performance vs Tom Brady's to prove that he "might have won a game" is?

If the Falcons lose, Does Matt Ryan lose?

When you answer mine, you will answer yours....

 

 

Nope they aren’t my arguments. The initial statement made by @Vandy was that Ryan is throwing the ball as good, if not better than Brady at 35. I disagree with that statement but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s his statement.

Lol You keep trying to spin this narrative around. It’s not going to work  little fella. You made the “Ryan couldn’t win any of the SBs Brady did.” statement. I said it’s not quantifiable to replace one QB into another QBs position. That it’s speculation. What I did was compare each of their stats in their 1st SBs and showed that Brady didn’t “lead” the Patriots to their win. He assisted but he wasn’t the reason why they won that game. Three turnovers created by the Patriots defense was a bigger contributor. That’s three times you’ve changed the narrative. You aren’t consistent at all. Lol

I asked you the question first. So answer it. Lol

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On 10/24/2020 at 8:56 AM, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Please go look at the cap ramifications of trading Ryan then delete thread. Thanks in advance!

This is absolutely not true and has been refuted dozens of times.  If we trade Ryan after the season, he will only cost us 3 million more than his cap hit next year.  Yes, that is three Million more; however, the OP is correct.  Ryan is not the problem, but he is not going to help this team without a defense and an Oline that can block.  We cannot fix those problems next year because the cap is going down and we have limited draft picks.  The most logical solution is to trade Ryan while we can still get something for him (maybe a 1st and 3rd pick to the right team) eat his cap (the other team will only pay his base salary).  Draft his replacement and implement an offensive and defensive scheme that actually work in the 21st century.  If we don't, we go into next year with no new help because of the reduced cap, a defense that will be bad no matter what, an Oline that can't block and trying to implement a new offensive strategy with incorrect players.  Oh, and Ryan will be a year older and take another beating because of the bad defense and Oline that can't block.

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4 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Nope they aren’t my arguments. The initial statement made by @Vandy was that Ryan is throwing the ball as good, if not better than Brady at 35. I disagree with that statement but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s his statement.

Lol You keep trying to spin this narrative around. It’s not going to work  little fella. You made the “Ryan couldn’t win any of the SBs Brady did.” statement. I said it’s not quantifiable to replace one QB into another QBs position. That it’s speculation. What I did was compare each of their stats in their 1st SBs and showed that Brady didn’t “lead” the Patriots to their win. He assisted but he wasn’t the reason why they won that game. Three turnovers created by the Patriots defense was a bigger contributor. That’s three times you’ve changed the narrative. You aren’t consistent at all. Lol

I asked you the question first. So answer it. Lol

Speculation...Did you watch the Superbowl Matt Ryan played in? Or are you trying to forget it along with the rest of the groupies? Did you watch the NFC championship game? or is that speculation?

I am not speculating, Matt Ryan is Matt Ryan, Brady is Brady, Fact is, Matt Ryan AND HIS TEAM would have found a way to lose that game you speak of

How many turnovers did they cause in the Dallas game? Did they Win or Lose? Is that Speculation?

Narrative is the same...Matt Ryan is not, never was, never will be Tom Brady, So its IMPOSSIBLE for him to do anything as good as Tom Brady

By the way should we compare the performances of Matt Ryan vs Brady today? I thought Matt Ryan was the one in his prime?

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30 minutes ago, the baptist said:

Speculation...Did you watch the Superbowl Matt Ryan played in? Or are you trying to forget it along with the rest of the groupies? Did you watch the NFC championship game? or is that speculation?

I am not speculating, Matt Ryan is Matt Ryan, Brady is Brady, Fact is, Matt Ryan AND HIS TEAM would have found a way to lose that game you speak of

How many turnovers did they cause in the Dallas game? Did they Win or Lose? Is that Speculation?

Narrative is the same...Matt Ryan is not, never was, never will be Tom Brady, So its IMPOSSIBLE for him to do anything as good as Tom Brady

By the way should we compare the performances of Matt Ryan vs Brady today? I thought Matt Ryan was the one in his prime?

Lmao I did watch it and he performed well. He, like many others on the team, made mistakes. And the FALCONS lost the game. I didn’t see Ryan out there alone. Did you?

You are speculating. You said that if you took Ryan and placed him somewhere in place of Brady on any of those SB winning teams, that they would have lost. That isn’t quantifiable, it’s just not.

What does the Dallas game have to do with Brady? Hmmmmm...another strawman argument in the works. Keep on topic there, slugger.

I never claimed Ryan was Brady lol. You’re the one that interjected hypotheticals created in a multiverse that places Ryan in Brady’s Super Bowls, not me.

The original argument that started all this was @Vandy saying that Ryan was throwing the ball as good (if not better) as Brady at the age of 35. No Super Bowl mentions, pure eyeball test. YOU were the one that brought up Super Bowls. YOU were the one that made fictitious scenarios. And when it was rebuked, you changed the narrative, backpedaled, launched attacks, and constructed strawman arguments.

Check my history there sweetie. Been saying since two years ago that Ryan is regressing. Been saying it all this season too. Yet ANOTHER strawman argument. 

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5 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Lmao I did watch it and he performed well. He, like many others on the team, made mistakes. And the FALCONS lost the game. I didn’t see Ryan out there alone. Did you?

You are speculating. You said that if you took Ryan and placed him somewhere in place of Brady on any of those SB winning teams, that they would have lost. That isn’t quantifiable, it’s just not.

What does the Dallas game have to do with Brady? Hmmmmm...another strawman argument in the works. Keep on topic there, slugger.

I never claimed Ryan was Brady lol. You’re the one that interjected hypotheticals created in a multiverse that places Ryan in Brady’s Super Bowls, not me.

The original argument that started all this was @Vandy saying that Ryan was throwing the ball as good (if not better) as Brady at the age of 35. No Super Bowl mentions, pure eyeball test. YOU were the one that brought up Super Bowls. YOU were the one that made fictions scenarios. And when it was rebuked, you changed the narrative, backpedaled, launched attacks, and constructed strawman arguments.

Check my history there sweetie. Been saying since two years ago that Ryan is regressing. Been saying it all this season too. Yet ANOTHER strawman argument. 

When the Falcons lose....Does Matt Ryan Lose?

The original argument is flawed and that was proven again today, Yes.....Yes...Finally.....I was the one that brought up Superbowls, I am proud to say that....the hypothetical you speak of was brought about by your implied belief

Did you not state" Patriots D caused this many turnovers....Tom Brady didn't lead" ? But the result is the same, somehow with a "poor performance" from Brady they won

Matt Ryan time and time again has showed you, that even when the defense comes to play, he AND HIS TEAM will find a way to lose, that is factual, that is reality, "quantifiable" or not, it has already happened, this includes the Dallas game does it not?

As I recall a rebuttal was made, to this "fictional scenario" that is "not quantifiable". Why deliver a rebuttal if it was not based in truth or if it was "not quantifiable" to begin with? 

This narrative that keeps changing is puzzling to me...Wins>Losses, Superbowls>Stats, Matt Ryan<Tom Brady.....Still the same on my side

 

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