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Seven NFL Teams with 1-5 record or worse - Same As Falcons - through week#6


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Man people upset when they lose and upset when they win. 

The 1st overall pick is honestly a bigger fantasy than the falcons turning it around and making the playoffs 

Yea...cause QB vs QB is how football works 

6 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

Braves didn’t tank. They did a complete rebuild. Players and coaches weren’t trying to lose games on purpose

yes

that is what I said if you read my original email - it's only complicated for some people - NO ONE thinks nor expects players to do anything but there best.

Organizations employ the strategy often in many sports though - not the players.

this is simple.

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42 minutes ago, Norwood all the way! said:

I was actually thinking about this the other day. Build up a formidable team with draft picks and free agents before drafting a qb. Once we have a solid foundation then it's much easier for a rookie QB to come in and win and we don't have to be playing enormous money for a qb for 5 yrs. 

none of it matters until you get THE QUARTERBACK.    You get said QB whenever he becomes available or within striking distance.

The theory about "build rest of roster first" - it just doesn't work that way.

For example:   If you are convinced that Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields or whoever else is a Next Level Star - and you have the draft position and/or position plus trade assets to "get him" you do it.

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3 hours ago, g-dawg said:

i feel ya brotha.

Braves and Hawks tanked and you could make strong argument that it was done intentionally.   Hawks aren't there yet but are amassing talent.   Braves just missed the World Series but are very close.

I know Players don't tank - but organizations do all the time and do so strategically.    If I was GM, I would do so if I could.  I would take whatever hit I had to take to trade Matt and Julio if it was even possible to do so.   If I could get 2nd round picks, I would do it.    People will argue you should get more but the salary is a big detriment to getting other NFL teams to give you 1st round picks for older players w/ big contracts.

Bottom-line, this team needs to re-organize this top heavy roster with two stars aging.  

I’m not familiar with MLB, but NBA teams can rank ‘successfully’ because players have full guaranteeds that are eaten by the team trading for them. This creates chess pieces that can be moved as simply tank pieces. Big contracts on aging ‘stars’ and role players that contending teams want off the books to make moves. Then those players come to teams they don’t gaf about that they know won’t contend and coast on their guaranteed salary. And then, a lotto pick can change the trajectory of the team more than one high pick can in the NFL due to importance of singular star power in the NFL.

 

Like I felt like Carolina was smart how they handled their tank preseason and look at them now. Feel like the only true ‘tank’ for an NFL franchise is having an absolute nobody at back up QB and watching your starter go down for the season. I ain’t wishing that on anybody.

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29 minutes ago, falcndave said:

Thanks for the response. I'll also add the "reason" teams in baseball "blow it up" tends to be different. At some point teams just get tired of paying for mediocrity and realize they can get a whole lot more for a whole lot cheaper by trading talent for youth and starting over. While you can try to do that in the NFL, its just not as "clean" as it is in baseball with the minor league system you noted.

Also, and more important this this thread, I'm not sure that approach is in AB's nature. For better or worse, I think taking steps that would allow for a poor product in the short term in order to get a better product in the future would be difficult for him to embrace. I think he is pretty serious about winning and the fan value proposition when he speaks to those things. To him, sustain winning implies starting now. I'm not really debating right or wrong. I'm just pointing out why I think a major roster shakeup is less likely than many would hope. We'll know more once we know who the GM and HC are.

While Ryan and Julio are in my top five all-time favorite Falcons, and I don't think either are done winning, I'd trade either of them this afternoon if the value returned was more than what we currently have. Freeing up roster spots is of zero value to me. Who we get, what we pay them, and the salary cap considerations would all have to result in a positive value proposition over the remainder of the contracts in question (3 years?). If the Falcons can pull that off, and Blank will allow it, more power to them. 

value proposition with regards to star players also has to be "forward looking" - i.e.  Julio may be worth his salary now but be worth 1/2 his salary in two years.    Moreover, a big salary versus the salary cap could mean 2-3 other significant players - OR - 5-6 more slight roster upgrade players that helps overall depth of the team.

The "Falcon for Life" mentality needs to go out the door.   If Joe Montana wasn't a "Niner for life" and Tom Brady wasn't a "Patriot for Life" - two franchises with 4+ SB trophies each - then why should Matt Ryan or Julio Jones be a "Falcon for Life"?    I cringe when I hear Blank say sheot like that.

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12 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

yes

that is what I said if you read my original email - it's only complicated for some people - NO ONE thinks nor expects players to do anything but there best.

Organizations employ the strategy often in many sports though - not the players.

this is simple.

Ok

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6 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

none of it matters until you get THE QUARTERBACK.    You get said QB whenever he becomes available or within striking distance.

The theory about "build rest of roster first" - it just doesn't work that way.

For example:   If you are convinced that Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields or whoever else is a Next Level Star - and you have the draft position and/or position plus trade assets to "get him" you do it.

I think the idea is don’t ‘sell out’ for the guy early. Rather, build the roster, don’t commit to a high profile QB, and organically reach striking distance for your franchise guy

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It’s all moot and pointless because the Falcons will win too many games. NFL teams don’t tank. Because like former NFL players and executives have said the talent level isn’t that far off from the worst team to the best. Most NFL games are decided by 10 points or less. And every NFL team owner nets a profit. Business wise they are doing extremely well

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18 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

yes

that is what I said if you read my original email - it's only complicated for some people - NO ONE thinks nor expects players to do anything but there best.

Organizations employ the strategy often in many sports though - not the players.

this is simple.

How do you tank without getting the players involved?

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23 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

none of it matters until you get THE QUARTERBACK.    You get said QB whenever he becomes available or within striking distance.

The theory about "build rest of roster first" - it just doesn't work that way.

For example:   If you are convinced that Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields or whoever else is a Next Level Star - and you have the draft position and/or position plus trade assets to "get him" you do it.

I half agree with that, I think. I agree that you can draft your qb of the future any time now and start developing. But I wouldn't even think about putting him behind the wheel until the roster around him is strong enough (a la KC, LA, Baltimore, etc). Rushing him on the field turns us into detroit, cleveland, cincy, ny jets, etc.

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4 hours ago, g-dawg said:

Guys, don't get your hopes up for the #1 overall pick - or even a Top 3 pick.  There are 7 other teams with a record as bad (or worse) than Falcons 1-5 record.    Falcons are better than all those teams and now that "Coach Buddy" is gone, we are going to win more games.

I would love nothing more than to draft Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields with a Top 3 pick but it just isn't likely to happen.

NFL Records right now:

  1. NY Jets (0-6) - could draft a QB,  Darnold just isn't getting it done
  2. Jacksonville Jaguars (1-5) - Garner P-U
  3. Minnesota Vikings (1-5) - "Mediocre" is Cousin's middle name
  4. NY Giants (1-5) - Daniel Jones - really?
  5. Washington Redskins (1-5) - Redskins have no QB
  6. Atlanta Falcons (1-5) - time for a re-set.  Falcons need everything but this team isn't winning a SB in next two years - might not even make playoffs - get your QB if you can.
  7. Houston Texans (1-5) - don't need a QB
  8. Cincinnati Bengals (1-4-1) - don't need a QB
  9. Philadelphia Eagles (1-4-1) - who knows?  C'mon guys, you know Carson Wentz will be on the IR in next 3 weeks - take it to the bank.

Don't be surprised when this season is done when we are in our usual draft position of #8-14 again.    If Falcons want to get into position to draft a QB, probably will have to trade-up to do it - ugggh.

Just LOSE falcons like the losers that you are.

 

Darnold may get a pass depending on if they blame Gase or not. They could get a kings ransom for the first overall pick too. Then use it to build around him.

Jaguars probably won’t give up on Minshew just yet. He has a hopeful rookie year and could possibly grow into a better QB.

Vikings are in the same boat as we are in terms of QB situation. Aging QB on the decline with large contract. So they could pull the trigger.

Giants are a mystery as they seemed to be all in on Jones. Jones may be a victim of terrible coaching. He showed flashes of what he could be.

Redskins are a mystery as well. If the rumors are true that they want to get rid of Haskins then they’ll definitely take Lawrence.

All in all my top 2 choices for QBs next season are Lawrence and Lance. 

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27 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

It’s all moot and pointless because the Falcons will win too many games. NFL teams don’t tank. Because like former NFL players and executives have said the talent level isn’t that far off from the worst team to the best. Most NFL games are decided by 10 points or less. And every NFL team owner nets a profit. Business wise they are doing extremely well

You don't think the Colts "Sucked for Luck"?   Because I sure believe they did.

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You cannot "GO GET" a top 3 QB if those teams sitting there are in dire need of a QB. It takes two to tango.

These crappy teams understand how vital it is that they pounce on these opportunities without fail.

All the tanker blather is nothing more than an exercise in chasing your tail & feeding trolls.

The tankers already admitted/conceded after a few years, that teams won't lay down.  LOL, no **** sherlock!

The newest mantra is "But but we can hope they lose"... oh brother, knock yourselves out :lol:. Or we should just get rid of MR, rebuild now, then in year 5, after winning 30 games total, miraculously get to the promised land after a 12 win season & run the table... :rolleyes:

Personally, I have already come out & said, if our new GM/HC combo wants to have an estate sale & clean house for picks, then I will gladly get behind it.  Until then, using MR as their troll toy is getting old & crusty. 

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2 minutes ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

You cannot "GO GET" a top 3 QB if those teams sitting there are in dire need of a QB. It takes two to tango.

These crappy teams understand how vital it is that they pounce on these opportunities without fail.

All the tanker blather is nothing more than an exercise in chasing your tail & feeding trolls.

The tankers already admitted/conceded after a few years, that teams won't lay down.  LOL, no **** sherlock!

The newest mantra is "But but we can hope they lose"... oh brother, knock yourselves out :lol:. Or we should just get rid of MR, rebuild now, then in year 5, after winning 30 games total, miraculously get to the promised land after a 12 win season & run the table... :rolleyes:

Personally, I have already come out & said, if our new GM/HC combo wants to have an estate sale & clean house for picks, then I will gladly get behind it.  Until then, using MR as their troll toy is getting old & crusty. 

I will preface this with the fact that with Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields on the board, Jets or Jags or whomever would be stupid not to jump on it, then deal Darnold & Minshew to QB needy teams to gain more picks.  

If we sit at pick 4, 5, or 6, we'd still have to mortgage the entire draft & much of the following year's draft just to even be considered as a trade partner.

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16 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Darnold may get a pass depending on if they blame Gase or not. They could get a kings ransom for the first overall pick too. Then use it to build around him.

Jaguars probably won’t give up on Minshew just yet. He has a hopeful rookie year and could possibly grow into a better QB.

Vikings are in the same boat as we are in terms of QB situation. Aging QB on the decline with large contract. So they could pull the trigger.

Giants are a mystery as they seemed to be all in on Jones. Jones may be a victim of terrible coaching. He showed flashes of what he could be.

Redskins are a mystery as well. If the rumors are true that they want to get rid of Haskins then they’ll definitely take Lawrence.

All in all my top 2 choices for QBs next season are Lawrence and Lance. 

I believe the NFL likely views LAWRENCE as the best QB prospect since Luck.    Teams like JETS - who haven't had a great QB since Joe Namath in 1968 - that's 50+ years for those that struggle w/ algebra (not you Sidecar) - Jets I seriously doubt would hesitate to take him and trade off Darnold similar to what the Cards did when they drafted Kyler Murray and jettisoned the UCLA kid whose name escapes me now.

Minshew?  again no.   Jags have nothing invested in him and he hasn't shown that much

Giants? Redskins?

As far as it relates to Trevor Lawrence - believe all would take T-Law if given the opportunity - now maybe they wouldn't trade a ransom to move up and take him - if he fell in their laps, I don't think any would pass on him.

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2 hours ago, jetpac said:

No matter how much you wanna build MR2. He ain't beating Mahommes or Jackson. He can't even beat Brady and struggles to Brees. 

Yeah Matt Ryan needs to beat them all those years with no defense and barely an oline... how dare he... lol

So much bs on these boards putting all the blame square on Matt Ryan.

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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

none of it matters until you get THE QUARTERBACK.    You get said QB whenever he becomes available or within striking distance.

The theory about "build rest of roster first" - it just doesn't work that way.

For example:   If you are convinced that Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields or whoever else is a Next Level Star - and you have the draft position and/or position plus trade assets to "get him" you do it.

This is false. There's plenty considered next level that do and don't pan out. There's no 1 way of doing it.

You personally prefer this path, but it ain't the only way.

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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

The "Falcon for Life" mentality needs to go out the door. 

We agree there. I had it in several post the last few weeks. More importantly, I think AB gets that now based on his Ryan comments.  And, btw, I like the way Ryan responded this week. His arm was meh, but the pocket presence and ability to buy extra time was above average for him. Morris talked about making players uncomfortable. I think AB helped him out with his comments last week. 

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