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Here are questions for the anti-tankers


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1 minute ago, Atl Falcon said:

I’m not saying he will be better than Manning but based on what he’s accomplished so far with a better arm, speed, size and athleticism he’s a better prospect. If Manning, Luck and Lawerence were all coming out this year based on their college careers only. Lawerence would be number one no doubt. This cat is special very special. 

I'm not sure that is the case, but we all have our own opinion. I'm sure he's good, but I'm not sure he's Peyton Manning good.

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This topic has been done to death and no one is going to change their minds.

Doesn't invalidate anything I said. It's a freaking dead horse.

Tankers- Convinced that a rookie QB will come in and succeed in the NFL without any doubt Convinced that the Matt Ryan we saw yesterday is ready for retirement

These are the very definition of loaded questions. The entire thing is set up so that, no matter what you say (unless you completely agree with OP), you are conceding multiple points that agree with OP. From the word go, you are starting at a disadvantage, in a hole you can't possibly climb out of.  This is 

This entire thing is a trap to trick those OP doesn't agree with into being proven "wrong" very poorly veiled as open discussion 

This accomplishes nothing (except for maybe ego stroking the OP that is)

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9 minutes ago, hjerry said:

These are the very definition of loaded questions. The entire thing is set up so that, no matter what you say (unless you completely agree with OP), you are conceding multiple points that agree with OP. From the word go, you are starting at a disadvantage, in a hole you can't possibly climb out of.  This is 

This entire thing is a trap to trick those OP doesn't agree with into being proven "wrong" very poorly veiled as open discussion 

This accomplishes nothing (except for maybe ego stroking the OP that is)

No, since I am not asking anti-tankers to make an argument in the first place. Also, I find it ironic, that anti-tankers can straw man the tanker position, but if a tanker states the tanker position, and asks a question it is "loaded".

A loaded question is  a question that already assumes a position on a proposition is true. So explain how any of the questions entail that the tanker position is correct?

 

Here is the 1st question :

"1. How bad does the team have to be, or more specifically, Matt Ryan, before you lose faith in him and desire a different starting QB?"

How does that question imply the tanking position is correct?

Edited by Intellectually Honest
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15 minutes ago, octoslash said:

So now people who root for victory are not fans.  

We're "anti-tankers".  

Well thanks for clearing that up! 

 

 

 

 

 

Anti-tankers are fans. Who said that anti-tankers aren't fans? Anti-tankers AND tankers are all fans, with differing opinions on how the team should proceed. How is this not clear?

Edited by Intellectually Honest
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Has anyone looked at Ryan’s numbers this year???

Despite subpar performances against Chicago and Carolina, he is on pace for 4,900 yards, 30 touchdowns and 8 interceptions.   His rating stands at 97.8.  He’s had three years with a higher overall rating.  Want to guess which ones??  

2012, 2016, 2018.  
 

Yes, he’s getting old.  Yes, he has maybe 3 good years left counting this one.   But given the state of the rest of the roster, replacing Ryan should be down the list.  He is doing this despite playing in Koetter’s lunatic system.   A QB has a near-100 rating and the team is 1-5.  Criminal. 

Drafting a starting QB while the rest of the team is a basket case could ruin him.  This is why I want the new QB to be in the latter part of the rebuild.   Moving Ryan will wreck the cap for at least another season, so start fixing everything else while his contract rolls off.  Move the dead weight and build a competent defense.   Then go big with the new QB, groomed for a year, and a few big FAs to finish the roster.   
 

This time, I don’t want the rebuild done in a hurry.   I want it done right.  

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1 minute ago, Ghosts of Glanville said:

Has anyone looked at Ryan’s numbers this year???

Despite subpar performances against Chicago and Carolina, he is on pace for 4,900 yards, 30 touchdowns and 8 interceptions.   His rating stands at 97.8.  He’s had three years with a higher overall rating.  Want to guess which ones??  

2012, 2016, 2018.  
 

Yes, he’s getting old.  Yes, he has maybe 3 good years left counting this one.   But given the state of the rest of the roster, replacing Ryan should be down the list.  He is doing this despite playing in Koetter’s lunatic system.   A QB has a near-100 rating and the team is 1-5.  Criminal. 

Drafting a starting QB while the rest of the team is a basket case could ruin him.  This is why I want the new QB to be in the latter part of the rebuild.   Moving Ryan will wreck the cap for at least another season, so start fixing everything else while his contract rolls off.  Move the dead weight and build a competent defense.   Then go big with the new QB, groomed for a year, and a few big FAs to finish the roster.   
 

This time, I don’t want the rebuild done in a hurry.   I want it done right.  

So you think Ryan is good and old. Ok. Now what? Also the team is going to draft other players no matter what. So how is this an issue?

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39 minutes ago, Ghosts of Glanville said:

Has anyone looked at Ryan’s numbers this year???

Despite subpar performances against Chicago and Carolina, he is on pace for 4,900 yards, 30 touchdowns and 8 interceptions.   His rating stands at 97.8.  He’s had three years with a higher overall rating.  Want to guess which ones??  

2012, 2016, 2018.  
 

Yes, he’s getting old.  Yes, he has maybe 3 good years left counting this one.   But given the state of the rest of the roster, replacing Ryan should be down the list.  He is doing this despite playing in Koetter’s lunatic system.   A QB has a near-100 rating and the team is 1-5.  Criminal. 

Drafting a starting QB while the rest of the team is a basket case could ruin him.  This is why I want the new QB to be in the latter part of the rebuild.   Moving Ryan will wreck the cap for at least another season, so start fixing everything else while his contract rolls off.  Move the dead weight and build a competent defense.   Then go big with the new QB, groomed for a year, and a few big FAs to finish the roster.   
 

This time, I don’t want the rebuild done in a hurry.   I want it done right.  

good points all.

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So the anti-tankers assume, in their black and white thinking, that the tankers think Ryan is terrible, and thus needs to be replaced. 

They ignore that it's not if Ryan is great or sucks, but rather even though he is good, we don't think he is good enough to win a Super Bowl with this team or or in the foreseeable future as a Falcon.

It's weird how they keep imagining what the tankers believe without simply asking what our position is or bother responding to what is actually said in the OP.

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11 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

So the anti-tankers assume, in their black and white thinking, that the tankers think Ryan is terrible, and thus needs to be replaced. 

They ignore that it's not if Ryan is great or sucks, but rather even though he is good, we don't think he is good enough to win a Super Bowl with this team or or in the foreseeable future as a Falcon.

It's weird how they keep imagining what the tankers believe without simply asking what our position is or bother responding to what is actually said in the OP.

I addressed your question directly with tons of evidence that you can't entirely deconstruct a team and rebuild solely around a young QB with no veteran QB to learn under and expect to contend for a title in his first contract.  It was entirely based on data about the actual success rates of top 5 pick QBs in those areas.  And you chose to not even respond to it.  So how can I debate you if you simply don't respond to any answer that doesn't support your viewpoint.

Your silence on all evidence that contradicts your own thoughts speaks volumes.  You refuse to rebuttal everything and play as if you are being personally targeted because you absolutely cannot defend your viewpoint.  You are literally that meme of the kid putting the stick in his own bicycle and then getting mad at someone else..  It's quite sad.

Edited by #84
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22 minutes ago, #84 said:

I addressed your question directly with tons of evidence that you can't entirely deconstruct a team and rebuild solely around a young QB with no veteran QB to learn under and expect to contend for a title in his first contract.  It was entirely based on data about the actual success rates of top 5 pick QBs in those areas.  And you chose to not even respond to it.  So how can I debate you if you simply don't respond to any answer that doesn't support your viewpoint.

What question did you respond to, that I asked, that has anything to do with a rookie QB, on his rookie contract, contending for a Super Bowl without a veteran? I'll wait.

Edited by Intellectually Honest
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Well, I have free time today. The rest of the week is going to be busy.

I do not understand why this is even a discussion. No team is tanking. They can't afford to do so by any stretch of the imagination. Having this discussion is like people sitting around every single week discussing what they would do if they won the Mega Millions jackpot.

1). For fans, it's entertainment. You gain or lose nothing, except if you gamble. Personally, I enjoyed yesterday, no matter how this season ends. . . . just like in 2013 or 2014 when we missed the playoffs but defeated the Saints in both contests that season. I enjoyed those wins. So what? We're fans.

2). The coaches or players can't afford to tank. The reasons are obvious and shouldn't need to be stated.

3). High draft picks are no guarantee of success.

4). Why do certain teams consistently pick at the top of the draft while others consistently pick at the bottom of the draft? I'll wait. . . 

5). Tanking breeds a losing culture. 

6). Only ONE team per season will win the SB. Should the other 31 blow it up for high draft picks?

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37 minutes ago, Halcon-1 said:

Well, I have free time today. The rest of the week is going to be busy.

I do not understand why this is even a discussion. No team is tanking. They can't afford to do so by any stretch of the imagination. Having this discussion is like people sitting around every single week discussing what they would do if they won the Mega Millions jackpot.

1). For fans, it's entertainment. You gain or lose nothing, except if you gamble. Personally, I enjoyed yesterday, no matter how this season ends. . . . just like in 2013 or 2014 when we missed the playoffs but defeated the Saints in both contests that season. I enjoyed those wins. So what? We're fans.

2). The coaches or players can't afford to tank. The reasons are obvious and shouldn't need to be stated.

3). High draft picks are no guarantee of success.

4). Why do certain teams consistently pick at the top of the draft while others consistently pick at the bottom of the draft? I'll wait. . . 

5). Tanking breeds a losing culture. 

6). Only ONE team per season will win the SB. Should the other 31 blow it up for high draft picks?

Thanks for arguing against a point tankers have not made to begin with. If you think that is the tanker position, then you are mistaken.

Tankers do not expect the team to quit for a draft pick. It's just wishful thinking that IF the team is going to fail, fail hard enough to get the #1 pick for a future franchise QB. It's about increasing the chances of this team's success LONG term, because tankers have given up on the team in the short term, especially with Ryan. OK.

Hope I could make that clear.

Edited by Intellectually Honest
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2 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

We are having a discussion since you are just doing what was already addressed in the OP. 

 

Tankers do not expect the team to quit for a draft pick. It's just wishful thinking that IF the team is going to fail, fail hard enough to get the #1 pick for a future franchise QB. It's about increasing the chances of this team's success LONG term, because tankers have given up on the team in the short term, especially with Ryan. OK.

Hope I could make that clear.

You’ve made it clear, that’s for sure.....:ninja:

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If only there was a time in this teams history where having the #1 pick led to success within 5 years.

If only the team chose to choose a once in a generation quarterback with that pick and saw a trip to the Super Bowl within 5 years.  Or 10.

Then maybe we could see a morsel of hope in the intellectual gibberish ... but alas, gibberish is still gibberish

Here is my truth: I am an anti-tanker because I pay to go to every Falcons home game.  I want them to win.  When I follow the Falcons on the road, I want them to win there as well.  Wins are more important to me because gameday is a serious investment in MY time, MY energy and MY money.  Its really that simple.  Winning the SB would be nice, but not winning the SB hasnt made every other win along the way less enjoyable.  If there was a year to tank, I guess this would be a good one cause I postponed my tickets for this year... but crazy ol me.. I still want em to win.  The draft means nothing to me until draft day and then we'll see what ya got.  I dont speak for all the anti-tankers, but its the most consistent reason that i think the tanking philosophy is flawed at its core.

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4 minutes ago, RetroRoq said:

If only there was a time in this teams history where having the #1 pick led to success within 5 years.

If only the team chose to choose a once in a generation quarterback with that pick and saw a trip to the Super Bowl within 5 years.  Or 10.

Then maybe we could see a morsel of hope in the intellectual gibberish ... but alas, gibberish is still gibberish

Here is my truth: I am an anti-tanker because I pay to go to every Falcons home game.  I want them to win.  When I follow the Falcons on the road, I want them to win there as well.  Wins are more important to me because gameday is a serious investment in MY time, MY energy and MY money.  Its really that simple.  Winning the SB would be nice, but not winning the SB hasnt made every other win along the way less enjoyable.  If there was a year to tank, I guess this would be a good one cause I postponed my tickets for this year... but crazy ol me.. I still want em to win.  The draft means nothing to me until draft day and then we'll see what ya got.  I dont speak for all the anti-tankers, but its the most consistent reason that i think the tanking philosophy is flawed at its core.

So tanking is "flawed" because you are a paying customer, and expect the Falcons to win, regardless of the situation. Um k.

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22 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Thanks for arguing against a point tankers have not made to begin with. If you think that is the tanker position, then you are mistaken.

Tankers do not expect the team to quit for a draft pick. It's just wishful thinking that IF the team is going to fail, fail hard enough to get the #1 pick for a future franchise QB. It's about increasing the chances of this team's success LONG term, because tankers have given up on the team in the short term, especially with Ryan. OK.

Hope I could make that clear.

I never stated or implied any of this. You have nothing to counter anything I said. . . grasping at straws now. 

Edited by Halcon-1
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2 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

So tanking is "flawed" because you are a paying customer, and expect the Falcons to win, regardless of the situation. Um k.

Ummmmm. . . Yeah.     A fan pays to watch the Falcons, they have the right to expect a competitive product

you really need to go back to Debate 101

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