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Here are questions for the anti-tankers


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This topic has been done to death and no one is going to change their minds.

Doesn't invalidate anything I said. It's a freaking dead horse.

Tankers- Convinced that a rookie QB will come in and succeed in the NFL without any doubt Convinced that the Matt Ryan we saw yesterday is ready for retirement

37 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Preferences aren't "slants". I asked for a preference. If anything I am looking for common ground, to make points. If an anti-tanker and I agree that a Super Bowl is what is most important, than we can use that as a starting point. Don't be so paranoid.

Yes they are if you right a survey saying you are more likely to succeed my way that is slant it would be disqualified in any academic. Setting because unless you can provide data showing our winning percentage with Lawrence vs. Ryan you can't know the difference. To suggest you know Lawrence will succeed with all the multitude of failed QBs that looked amazing for 3 years in college is a lie and deep down you know it. After 5 years every pundit guaranteed Rivers would win a title and be an all time great guess what he didnt.   Drafting and talent evaluation is at best a crapshoot and all the good GMs know it that is what they great franchises focus on great coaching and player development not Mel Kipers big board like a local armchair GM

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That's 4 questions but here are my answers:

1. Matt Ryan and the team are already bad enough - they have started the last 3 years with horrible records, 4-5, 0-5, and 1-7 starts are not something you expect from a healthy franchise QB with the best WR cast in the NFL as well as an elite TE. 

2. Give me the Rookie with the Lombardi in a heart beat, I've waited long enough. 

3. Probably less than 10% to be honest; Chances are marginally slim. Julio lost a step and is frequently hurt, Ryan is losing arm strength, and team is the oldest in the NFL. 

4. Its all about loyalty. Team is very old, and if you have a chance at someone at a game changing QB you take it. Matt Ryan has had his shot and blew it and he was the most expensive QB in the NFL during that period. 

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2 minutes ago, #84 said:

Yes they are if you right a survey saying you are more likely to succeed my way that is slant it would be disqualified in any academic. Setting because unless you can provide data showing our winning percentage with Lawrence vs. Ryan you can't know the difference. To suggest you know Lawrence will succeed with all the multitude of failed QBs that looked amazing for 3 years in college is a lie and deep down you know it. After 5 years every pundit guaranteed Rivers would win a title and be an all time great guess what he didnt.   Drafting and talent evaluation is at best a crapshoot and all the good GMs know it that is what they great franchises focus on great coaching and player development not Mel Kipers big board like a local armchair GM

First off survey's are not "disqualified" in academic debates. No one is making a survey, since I am not making the case that because one idea is more popular than the other  idea, an  is true or not, implying an appeal to popularity. It doesn't matter which sides belief is more popular.

 

The key to making any argument is using premises which both sides agree on. If neither side can agree agree on anything, no one has a case. They will only use premises, assuming they will even attempt to make an argument, that they accept - not caring if their opponent accept them as well.

 

It is much more effective making an argument based on a premise we both agree on. You either do agree that a Super Bowl win are the most important goal for you as a fan or you don't. If you can agree on that, we can start there.

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5 minutes ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

I would love to know how a team can win a SB with 6 wins....

I guess you missed the part where it was the average wins per season, not 6 wins in a season. So a team can have 10 wins one season, and 2 the next. The average for both seasons is 6.

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1 minute ago, Intellectually Honest said:

First off survey's are not "disqualified" in academic debates. No one is making a survey, since I am not making the case that because one idea is more popular than the other  idea, an  is true or not, implying an appeal to popularity. It doesn't matter which sides belief is more popular.

 

The key to making any argument is using premises which both sides agree on. If neither side can agree agree on anything, no one has a case. They will only use premises, assuming they will even attempt to make an argument, that they accept - not caring if their opponent accept them as well.

 

It is much more effective making an argument based on a premise we both agree on. You either do agree that a Super Bowl win are the most important goal for you as a fan or you don't. If you can agree on that, we can start there.

As someone who had to write a survey for an academic article I was trying to get published for my college.  I can assure you leading questions are one of the first things that get a paper disqualified.

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9 minutes ago, Osiruz said:

That's 4 questions but here are my answers:

1. Matt Ryan and the team are already bad enough - they have started the last 3 years with horrible records, 4-5, 0-5, and 1-7 starts are not something you expect from a healthy franchise QB with the best WR cast in the NFL as well as an elite TE. 

2. Give me the Rookie with the Lombardi in a heart beat, I've waited long enough. 

3. Probably less than 10% to be honest; Chances are marginally slim. Julio lost a step and is frequently hurt, Ryan is losing arm strength, and team is the oldest in the NFL. 

4. Its all about loyalty. Team is very old, and if you have a chance at someone at a game changing QB you take it. Matt Ryan has had his shot and blew it and he was the most expensive QB in the NFL during that period. 

If you read the OP, you would have read it's about getting a Super Bowl win in the LONG TERM. When was it ever said or implied that a rookie QB would win a Super bowl in the first year? I'll wait.

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1 minute ago, #84 said:

As someone who had to write a survey for an academic article I was trying to get published for my college.  I can assure you leading questions are one of the first things that get a paper disqualified.

I am not making a survey. So your point is irrelevant. I am not appealing to popularity. This has already been clarified.

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2 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

I guess you missed the part where it was the average wins per season, not 6 wins in a season. So a team can have 10 wins one season, and 2 the next. The average for both seasons is 6.

oh, did i paraphrase and misquote you to misrepresent what you said to serve my own purpose? hmmmm.

now you can tell me how many super bowl winners in the last, say, 20 years have averaged 6 wins per season in the 3 seasons leading up to, and including, their SB winning season. beacause for you to claim that that would lead to a SB win you'd have to have real evidential examples of when that has worked out for other teams, right?......i'll wait.

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13 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

If you read the OP, you would have read it's about getting a Super Bowl win in the LONG TERM. When was it ever said or implied that a rookie QB would win a Super bowl in the first year? I'll wait.

You are acting in bad faith I have posed many questions about the validity of your strategy you have answered none.  Why not protect the kid with years on the bench while we improve as a unit. You decided that would negate the value of his rookie deal.  So are we only keeping hi more 5 years then repeating the process again how is that a LONGTERM solution.  When asked about our other deficiencies you merely point all more of your issues with Ryan.  You are a fan you have opinions but if you looked at this with even an ounce of objectivity or thought about how personally attacked you feel by the myriad of other opinions you would see you're clearly trying to avoid a discussion with anyone and preach the wonder of your golden boy QB which is fine Lawrence is awesome but he isn't going to change the many issues we have here by himself

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4 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

If you read the OP, you would have read it's about getting a Super Bowl win in the LONG TERM. When was it ever said or implied that a rookie QB would win a Super bowl in the first year? I'll wait.

I know but you said if I had to take MR2 with a 9-7 record for 5 years or the new guy with a bunch of 6-10 records and one Lombardi, I said give me the rook in that situation. 

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1 minute ago, Osiruz said:

I know but you said if I had to take MR2 with a 9-7 record for 5 years or the new guy with a bunch of 6-10 records and one Lombardi, I said give me the rook in that situation. 

Well in 5 years, the rookie would no longer be a rookie, would they? They would only be a rookie in the first year right? 

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22 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

I agree it doesn't necessarily have to come from the draft. But no one claimed it does. If you read the OP, we are talking about what road gives us the better chance.

Then I think the best chance we have is to have enough talent right now to not end up with a top 3 pick, and get comp for Ryan to do better with the talent we have right now, while adding complimentary pieces. If we had a team bad enough to get a top 3 pick organically, I’m sure you can agree we’d have a harder time giving Ryan’s comp a fair shake in showing any team improvement.

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54 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Apparently some posters hate certain topics so much they post in thread on those topics just to bump those threads up, rather than responding to topics they do like. 

 

I wasn't talking about you.

 

Just saying that there are threads usually made about the same topics over and over again on this board.

 

Personally I don't like tanking. I hate losing period. The only way I'm satisfied with the #1 overall pick or a really high pick is if the Falcons are truly that awful. Even then I hate that they are that bad.

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Just now, paulitik said:

This thread is a Covid / AIDS hybrid. 

Unfortunately, that's par for the course in TATF. Bad play? Get rid of everyone, tank, etc. Win? Get rid of everyone, tank, etc.

 

Every year. Last year, it was Tua. Mayfield was en vogue at one point. People wanted us to pick up Manziel. Bring Vick back.

 

Just stupidity...

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4 minutes ago, #84 said:

You are acting in bad faith I have posed many questions about the validity of your strategy you have answered none.  Why not protect the kid with years on the bench while we improve as a unit. You decided that would negate the value of his rookie deal.  So are we only keeping hi more 5 years then repeating the process again how is that a LONGTERM solution.  When asked about our other deficiencies you merely point all more of your issues with Ryan.  You are a fan you have opinions but if you looked at this with even an ounce of objectivity or thought about how personally attacked you feel by the myriad of other opinions you would see you're clearly trying to avoid a discussion with anyone and preach the done of your golden boy QB which is fine Lawrence is awesome but he isn't going to change the many issues we have here by himself

Validity has to do with the form of an argument. Asking questions isn't an argument. As for protecting the kid, I already responded to a similar point earlier:

The cheapest a starting QB will be, in most cases, is in their rookie contract. Also, rookies are succeeding much earlier in their career and more often. That extra money saved can be spent elsewhere. So sitting on a rookie contract to pay for a very expensive Matt Ryan contract is not financially prudent for the team in the short or long term.

The team is going to take a financial hit no matter what, whether continuing to pay for Ryan, or letting him go with a salary cap. It seems you have more faith in him, and you think you can still build a team around him with the next 2 years. I don't. Now what?

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28 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

I guess that is your way of doing this:

lalala.png?1493328802

Go back & refer to my notes liar.  I already dismantled every single one of your pathetic points, even after you tried to force everyone to argue only on your terms & definitions of reality.  Sorry man, I blew it all up beautifully.

Cry louder please.

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Just now, HASHBROWN3 said:

Go back & refer to my notes liar.  I already dismantled every single one of your pathetic points, even after you tried to force everyone to argue only on your terms & definitions of reality.  Sorry man, I blew it all up beautifully.

Cry louder pleas.

So you lied about what was said, and you ironically call me a liar. Why should I do anything on your behalf when you demonstrated bad faith?

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