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2 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

First off, no one is saying the team should quit. No one expects it. It is just a preference for the team to do bad enough to get a high draft pick. No one expects a player fighting for a spot on a team, or a coach trying to keep their job to quit, just for some fan to be happy. It's just wishful thinking that given the right circumstances, the team will get a higher draft pick to have the capital, and thus a higher probability to turn a franchise around.

I am not sure why this needs to be explained to you.

Yeah this proves my point. There is no justification for quitting. No perceived good is justification for it. Like it or not tanking is quitting, surrender, throwing in the towel. Fans support the team if you are going to effectively quit just tell the fans so they do not waste their time. Then cancel the rest of the games. If you can make an excuse for quitting it is because you are a quitter and this may be the underlying problem.

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They don't have to tank. This team is bad. Just like last year. The thing is they don't have a slate of easy games at the end of the year like last year. This is a 3-13 team at best. You need seasons

So I know why everyone who is a tanker wants to tank. I get it I understand. 1st pick is exciting maybe getting another great QB for another 10+ years and so on. But here's my question to all of

Nailed it. No team tanks on purpose.

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3 minutes ago, Becky4Falcons said:

Yeah this proves my point. There is no justification for quitting. No perceived good is justification for it. Like it or not tanking is quitting, surrender, throwing in the towel. Fans support the team if you are going to effectively quit just tell the fans so they do not waste their time. Then cancel the rest of the games. If you can make an excuse for quitting it is because you are a quitter and this may be the underlying problem.

I am not proving your point, since no one had that position in the first place. You assumed that was the tanker position. You are mistaken.

 

Also you are conflating "quitting" as in the team giving up with a fan giving up on the team. Fans have no outcome on the game. So whether a fan "quits" is irrelevent. You are making an equivocation fallacy.

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On 10/18/2020 at 9:18 AM, FalconofShadows said:

So I know why everyone who is a tanker wants to tank. I get it I understand. 1st pick is exciting maybe getting another great QB for another 10+ years and so on.

But here's my question to all of you, do you really think the coaches and players who are fighting to continue there careers? You have coaches who know they will be looking for a job next year and a bunch of players on last year of deal or a 1 year deal. Plus the players who will be cap casualties. Do you really think they will just lose on purpose just so a team they won't be on next years has a better pick?

just because the FANs want them to lose for the better pick does not mean the PLAYERS and STAFF will. Big difference. No team will actively tank in the NFL. That does not mean the fans cannot root for a team they know is not going anywhere to lose games so they have a chance to get a high end talent.

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I honestly  don't know why we gotta go through this every year for the last 3 years. grown men who want to keep making their salaries don't tank. I mean I could see somebody like Takk doing it. Seriously, Ryan isn't going anywhere. Like him or not. yes i believe it's time to draft a replacement. But grown men don't tank.

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On 10/18/2020 at 9:18 AM, FalconofShadows said:

So I know why everyone who is a tanker wants to tank. I get it I understand. 1st pick is exciting maybe getting another great QB for another 10+ years and so on.

But here's my question to all of you, do you really think the coaches and players who are fighting to continue there careers? You have coaches who know they will be looking for a job next year and a bunch of players on last year of deal or a 1 year deal. Plus the players who will be cap casualties. Do you really think they will just lose on purpose just so a team they won't be on next years has a better pick?

I don't think I have ever used the word "tank".  At least from my perspective, I don't need a player to go out there and try and lose and basically not play/do their best.  What I'm saying is, the season is shot, its not going anywhere.  Make the necessary changes, coaches and gm fired.  If somebody wants to trade for a "piece" that you don't see being a factor 3 years from now, cool.  Pull the trigger if it nets you something of value....because its going nowhere.

I'm not personally moving forward with playoff expectations for this team.  Do you honestly think this team can win 9 of 11 game?  One of these two things has to be true.  Either A.) Falcons suck and you were dead in the water after your start or B.) Falcons would have been a contender from day 1 had Blank pulled the trigger at the end of 2019 (ie the past leadership was in the way).  Either way, make a decision which one it is and move forward.  If its A) then don't keep acting like you have a chance and delaying the inevitable.  If its B.) too bad the wrong decision was made to stick with Quinn and TD past 2019.

I will say this is why you fire the coach and GM early.  You get guys attention.  Pick it up or look for a job elsewhere.  Too talented to play like dog poop with horrible half a$$ effort.

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Tanking is only viable once you are eliminated from the playoffs.  And the easiest way to do so is to pull your starting qb and play the backup.  So tanking right now is just stupid until  we are eliminated.  And even then the only way we tank is by pulling Matt Ryan.  

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1 hour ago, Intellectually Honest said:

First off, no one is saying the team should quit. No one expects it. It is just a preference for the team to do bad enough to get a high draft pick. No one expects a player fighting for a spot on a team, or a coach trying to keep their job to quit, just for some fan to be happy. It's just wishful thinking that given the right circumstances, the team will get a higher draft pick to have the capital, and thus a higher probability to turn a franchise around.

I am not sure why this needs to be explained to you.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a dumber person try so hard to come off as smart. You just keep changing rationalizations to fit a dumb narrative. Tanking, whether it’s the intentional losing by coaches, player, or the owner in a game in a multibillion dollar industry, or the even dumber new rationale of wishful thinking of fans that would rather sit through 11 games of misery just so they can celebrate for about 15 minutes in April they got a draft pick, which isn’t a guarantee, especially considering the team is probably in a state of rebuild with an entirely new coaching staff.  Bringing it back to your dumb 7-9 point. You get your wish of going 1-15, we dump Matt Ryan, we pick up Trevor, we go 7-9 in 2021. What does that mean for the team? The same thing going 7-9 would have this year. It’s a meaningless argument. 

 

The Rams are the only recent team to have success after a first overall pick. The Browns had 2 #1 overalls in the last few years. 

 

The only logical rationale for tanking is that a coach, owner, or group of players bet a significant amount of money against their own team. Maybe you’ll work that in next. 

 

Just quit, dude. The most ironic username in the history of the boards.

 

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16 hours ago, paulitik said:

So if the coaches aren’t willing to purposely tank to fulfill your fantasy of a #1 draft pick, and the players aren’t willing, which is the whole premise of why this discussion is moronic, who exactly is going to do the tanking? If Blank wanted to tank he’d have fired more coaching staff. The team is in limbo, unless Raheem pulls off a playoff berth, then they likely found a new coach. It doesn’t matter if we go 7-9 or 1-15. It’s irrelevant. The point is the premise of tanking is moronic because that’s not how reality works. 

"It doesn't matter if we go 7-9 or 1-15. It's irrelevant" .......smh 

"Unless Raheem pulls off a playoff berth"....smh

Paulitik......Lover of Obscurity, Paulitik the Seven-Nine.....Ill keep working on it

You didn't answer the question, your rebuttal is denial, 7-9= Obscurity, accomplishes nothing and you know it

Everything matters, we are either 10 years away or 4 years away from contending, you can't build a Superbowl contender with an overpaid QB who is not producing wins when it counts 

And by the time his contract is feasible and frees up room to build ......it will be time to get rid of him and you know it, this team will not win a Superbowl with Matt Ryan, contrary to Falcon Fan Mythology, The Superbowl is always the goal

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10 minutes ago, the baptist said:

"It doesn't matter if we go 7-9 or 1-15. It's irrelevant" .......smh 

"Unless Raheem pulls off a playoff berth"....smh

Paulitik......Lover of Obscurity, Paulitik the Seven-Nine.....Ill keep working on it

You didn't answer the question, your rebuttal is denial, 7-9= Obscurity, accomplishes nothing and you know it

Everything matters, we are either 10 years away or 4 years away from contending, you can't build a Superbowl contender with an overpaid QB who is not producing wins when it counts 

And by the time his contract is feasible and frees up room to build ......it will be time to get rid of him and you know it, this team is will not win a Superbowl with Matt Ryan, contrary to Falcon Fan Mythology, The Superbowl is always the goal

Well this comes down to a straw man they imagined in the first place.  I am not claiming the person you are directly responding to is doing it, but some of the people you mentioned have.

 

They ASSUME that we expect the team to quit on our behalf. They assume that if we got a rookie QB, that we expect the rookie QB to win the Super Bowl in his first year. They don't even bother considering we are talking about the long term success of the team. Either it doesn't register with them, or they want to just try to humiliate us by asking us to defend positions we don't have or to argue against points that are irrelevant to anything we did say.

 

There might be a few who will at least try to be honest about this discussion, but for most them it is an issue of pride in trying to humiliate the other guy.  For many of them they are paranoid. They think that the tank position is just another way to crap on Ryan, so they feel they have to defend him at all costs because that is what a "real" fan would do.

 

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2 hours ago, paulitik said:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a dumber person try so hard to come off as smart. You just keep changing rationalizations to fit a dumb narrative. Tanking, whether it’s the intentional losing by coaches, player, or the owner in a game in a multibillion dollar industry, or the even dumber new rationale of wishful thinking of fans that would rather sit through 11 games of misery just so they can celebrate for about 15 minutes in April they got a draft pick, which isn’t a guarantee, especially considering the team is probably in a state of rebuild with an entirely new coaching staff.  Bringing it back to your dumb 7-9 point. You get your wish of going 1-15, we dump Matt Ryan, we pick up Trevor, we go 7-9 in 2021. What does that mean for the team? The same thing going 7-9 would have this year. It’s a meaningless argument. 

 

The Rams are the only recent team to have success after a first overall pick. The Browns had 2 #1 overalls in the last few years. 

 

The only logical rationale for tanking is that a coach, owner, or group of players bet a significant amount of money against their own team. Maybe you’ll work that in next. 

 

Just quit, dude. The most ironic username in the history of the boards.

 

Translation: "I can't argue against your points, so I will arbitrarily call it dumb because I don't know how to rebut it. I will also tell you what your position is, even though it's not actually your position, so I can argue against an idea you don't have, to prove that I won. I won't ask what your position is. I don't care. 

 

I am here to defend Matt Ryan because over the years, that has been done, and I am assuming you are doing it also. So I'll imply you a troll and say you are dumb to dismiss anything you said and increase my homer TAFT street cred. 

 

Take that intellectually dishonest. I am too smart for you"

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9 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Well this comes down to a straw man they imagined in the first place.  I am not claiming the person you are directly responding to is doing it, but some of the people you mentioned have.

 

They ASSUME that we expect the team to quit on our behalf. They assume that if we got a rookie QB, that we expect the rookie QB to win the Super Bowl in his first year. They don't even bother considering we are talking about the long term success of the team. Either it doesn't register with them, or they want to just try to humiliate us by asking us to defend positions we don't have or to argue against points we never made in the first place.

 

There might be a few who will at least try to be honest about this discussion, but for most them it is an issue of pride in trying to humiliate the other guy.

 

Exactly, Root of the issue for most of the detractors to our beliefs, imo, is that they are mistaking their loyalty for Ryan, for loyalty to the franchise or the franchise's success, and that's complicated by what some here believe success is 

No one, not one anti-tanker, can honestly say that we will not be addressing the QB position soon, so I think part of it is emotional, not logic 

Last point, the Superbowl being the goal obviously confuses some of these guys as well, I'm still not sure how to address that 

 

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On 10/18/2020 at 9:27 AM, Trump MAGA said:

You simply cannot ethically issue a demand to tank. However under Quinn it appeared they were tanking on their own. 

There are 11 games left. This is unique for an interim coach to have this many games left. He has an opportunity to prove whether or not this team had a talent problem or a scheme problem or both. We looked this bad last year when we ran off a 6-2 second half. So there has to be some thought that this team has it in them to go on an 8-3 run which could get them in the playoffs. Who knows with this team?

I could definitely see us pulling off a 8-3 or even 9-2 run. 
 

Will it happen? Who knows. 

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31 minutes ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Translation: "I can't argue against your points, so I will arbitrarily call it dumb because I don't know how to rebut it. I will also tell you what your position is, even though it's not actually your position, so I can argue against an idea you don't have, to prove that I won. I won't ask what your position is. I don't care. 

 

I am here to defend Matt Ryan because over the years, that has been done, and I am assuming you are doing it also. So I'll imply you a troll and say you are dumb to dismiss anything you said and increase my homer TAFT street cred. 

 

Take that intellectually dishonest. I am too smart for you"

Falcons win, Ryan plays great.

Entire wishful tank scenario goes south.  Bummed tankers throw out weak MR hate threads...

Rinse/repeat.  

But please stroke me for saying I want a new team, new QB & a SB right away like it's some new brainstorm.

If we go 1-15, so be it.  If we win out, so be it. 

Insulting those who respect MR & those who don't wish we lay down doesn't reflect well on you I don't imagine.

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1 minute ago, the baptist said:

Exactly, Root of the issue for most of the detractors to our beliefs, imo, is that they are mistaking their loyalty for Ryan, for loyalty to the franchise or the franchise's success, and that's complicated by what some here believe success is 

No one, not one anti-tanker, can honestly say that we will not be addressing the QB position soon, so I think part of it is emotional, not logic 

Last point, the Superbowl being the goal obviously confuses some of these guys as well, I'm still not sure how to address that 

 

Well as fans, I think we all want the team to win a Super Bowl. It's a matter on how much faith we put in the team, as is, especially with Ryan. Ant-tankers have much more faith than we do. 

For us, we rather have the Falcons use the time ASAP to start building for the future than trying to cling onto the past, and work with what we have. Once again, it depends on how much faith a person has in Matt.

The anti-tankers points seem to be that it's possible to win with Matt. So why start from scratch? Yeah it's possible but highly unlikely since he would have to do it, being realistic in a much smaller time frame, than getting a 21 year old rookie, who has his whole career in front of him.

Going by past conversations, it seems that the attitude is this - Ryan is the best QB the team ever has had, so what are the chances we get someone just as good? We don't know if the next QB will be a good as Matt.

But we do know what we already have: That is an aging QB that is past his prime, and even when the conditions were in place for him to win, the very ones the anti-tankers hope the team will have again while Ryan is still here, he still lost.

How can anyone be confident in Ryan with such a lead, and the ability to simply keep that lead to win, during his prime when the team for the most part was in top form, that he will do that in the next 5 years, while declining, with new players and coaches anyway, to go back to such conditions and believe he will probably win one is beyond me.

It's basically an appeal to fear. Their fear of the team doing worse is preventing them to acknowledge the team can do better. We are not claiming it necessarily will. But if we point that out, that is what they will claim to show us how we are wrong.

 

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1 hour ago, Intellectually Honest said:

Translation: "I can't argue against your points, so I will arbitrarily call it dumb because I don't know how to rebut it. I will also tell you what your position is, even though it's not actually your position, so I can argue against an idea you don't have, to prove that I won. I won't ask what your position is. I don't care. 

 

I am here to defend Matt Ryan because over the years, that has been done, and I am assuming you are doing it also. So I'll imply you a troll and say you are dumb to dismiss anything you said and increase my homer TAFT street cred. 

 

Take that intellectually dishonest. I am too smart for you"

You have no point. There’s nothing arbitrary. 

 

I have thoroughly laid out why the entire concept of tanking is idiotic. You basically only have the talking point that because you wish the Falcons could have the first pick, that you hope they lose. 

 

Your point is that you hope the team loses.That Matt Ryan plays poorly to justify your wishes. 

 

Saying you’re smart doesn’t make it so. Naming yourself “Intellectually Honest” doesn’t either. 

 

You have bought into a false and idiotic narrative that teams purposely tank for early round draft picks. You have decided that there is a player that will be in that first round draft pick spot, and that you want the Falcons to get that player. No you are doing contortions that would break the back of a Cirque de Solel to justify that position. 

 

All you have to say is “I hope the Falcons draft player X,” I hope that somehow works out. Instead you perpetually embarass yourself by double downing on a dumb narrative you can’t just suck it up and either concede, or just shut up.

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this team has been basically awful to watch over the last couple of years   I can't bring myself to watch an entire game--either knowing they will just disappoint with making other teams look great with fantastic comebacks or win against mediocre teams.  Something has broken in me as a life long fan and I'm sure in many others.  I really don't care if anyone says 'you're not really a fan" as I have been there cheering for years of ups and downs.  I just don't care and that's the last thing Blank wants to hear from long time followers

so I'm saying excitement needs to be brought back to this franchise and the only way I see this is if we get a GREAT new coach and very HIGH draft picks   picking at 16 again because we made a meaningless comeback on this already ruined season (esp with our salary cap problems) just sounds like more mediocrity and more blah

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23 minutes ago, paulitik said:

You have no point. There’s nothing arbitrary. 

 

I have thoroughly laid out why the entire concept of tanking is idiotic. You basically only have the talking point that because you wish the Falcons could have the first pick, that you hope they lose. 

 

Your point is that you hope the team loses.That Matt Ryan plays poorly to justify your wishes. 

 

Saying you’re smart doesn’t make it so. Naming yourself “Intellectually Honest” doesn’t either. 

 

You have bought into a false and idiotic narrative that teams purposely tank for early round draft picks. You have decided that there is a player that will be in that first round draft pick spot, and that you want the Falcons to get that player. No you are doing contortions that would break the back of a Cirque de Solel to justify that position. 

 

All you have to say is “I hope the Falcons draft player X,” I hope that somehow works out. Instead you perpetually embarass yourself by double downing on a dumb narrative you can’t just suck it up and either concede, or just shut up.

Translation: "Earlier I said he has a dumb argument. Now I say he has no point. I am not sure if he has no point or a dumb one. I hope no one will notice.

Even though he never claimed he was smart, I'll say he thinks it so he sounds like a pompous jerk. I can score points that way.

I will also claim that he thinks the team will purposely tank even though he said in the OP that he doesn't believe that. I hope no one notices that either."

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14 minutes ago, ket222 said:

this team has been basically awful to watch over the last couple of years   I can't bring myself to watch an entire game--either knowing they will just disappoint with making other teams look great with fantastic comebacks or win against mediocre teams.  Something has broken in me as a life long fan and I'm sure in many others.  I really don't care if anyone says 'you're not really a fan" as I have been there cheering for years of ups and downs.  I just don't care and that's the last thing Blank wants to hear from long time followers

so I'm saying excitement needs to be brought back to this franchise and the only way I see this is if we get a GREAT new coach and very HIGH draft picks   picking at 16 again because we made a meaningless comeback on this already ruined season (esp with our salary cap problems) just sounds like more mediocrity and more blah

Well said. The whole "you aren't a real fan" shtick is dismiss any criticisms you have of the team. They are being emotional. Don't take it too personally. It's a reaction. They believe they are defending the team against you even though you aren't against the team. It's paranoia.

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Even the Jets aren't tanking...or are they?   But anyway...

We're not going to get #1 most likely.  0-5 hurt but there is talent on the field and no chance we're first pick.  We might be pretty early or not, but as rough as it was first 5 weeks there are teams that look a little weaker and we have some more wins on the horizon, fingers crossed.

The idea of tanking seems like the best bad idea until you realize A) nobody loses on purpose, if they did they wouldn't have ended up as pro athletes and and B) there's no turning around that attitude, it would do more harm than good long term.  

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5 hours ago, the baptist said:

"It doesn't matter if we go 7-9 or 1-15. It's irrelevant" .......smh 

"Unless Raheem pulls off a playoff berth"....smh

Paulitik......Lover of Obscurity, Paulitik the Seven-Nine.....Ill keep working on it

You didn't answer the question, your rebuttal is denial, 7-9= Obscurity, accomplishes nothing and you know it

Everything matters, we are either 10 years away or 4 years away from contending, you can't build a Superbowl contender with an overpaid QB who is not producing wins when it counts 

And by the time his contract is feasible and frees up room to build ......it will be time to get rid of him and you know it, this team will not win a Superbowl with Matt Ryan, contrary to Falcon Fan Mythology, The Superbowl is always the goal

I heard these exact same points the year before Matt won MVP. 

It’s nonsense. If the new coach is ready to move on, fine. If he understands that there is less risk keeping an established QB, with a track record of winning playoff games, and consistently in the top tiers of QBs, fine. THe idea that trading or cutting Matt Ryan and drafting a new QB is going to all of sudden somehow turn the Falcons into the Patriots is idiocy.

There are so many variables and considerations, distilling it down to Matt Ryan is idiotic. The QB is the most important player, but coaching and scheme are more important. Matt’s had a few bad games, but he’s overperformed considering the idiocy shown in the game plan and  calling the plays. If it’s his time to go, I’ll deal, but these lame agenda posts have been tired for over a decade.

I’ve been following this team since 1980. I know that these dumb message boards of blowing teams up, tanking, and fantasy trades scenarios rarely pan out. 

 

Of course the SuperBowl is always the goal, but dumb ESPN debate show and message board talking points about how it should be done doesn’t mean it is. 

I’m gonna support the Falcons and support Matt as long as he’s the QB. Then when he’s not, I’ll cheer for the next one. But until I actually see Matt being the problem, I’d rather ride with him than. I’ve been with this team when 7-9 was a pipe dream.  

 

 

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