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A TDWII Observation: Ryan, not Quinn, is the common denominator for the Falcons tendency to blow big leads...


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Dang, I'm still so new here I don't want to lay out all the 100% lockdown indisputable facts just yet.  

So just this one and then y'all can yell at me for pointing out the forest through the trees:

Matt Ryan is completely devoid of leadership.  Not a trace.  NO, not even that one time whenever you're gonna say he took charge.  Never, not a bit.

Now he's a dead accurate pin-dropper of a quarterback.  His throw is just incredible.  So if there was a way to make a living just throwing at targets he'd mop that up all day.  But sometimes in the NFL there are 10 other human moving parts on your team and 11 others on the other team so you can't just stand there in the pocket.  I guess the best way to sum up Matt Ryan is Single Threat.  Hey, remember that one time we were in the Super Bowl?  Y'all remember?  Tom Brady rushed for 15 yards.  So my point is that even TB12 will step on the gas to win a game.  TB12 is a leader.  Yeah, he's getting older, lay off, everyone gets older, he should probably have retired.  But back on track...Matt Ryan won't ever move his stupid feet.  Not that he can't, there's a difference between Can't and Won't.  He's too timid to make a decision that isn't handed to him by Quinn's bunch of incompetent morons.  

So I'm totally with you.  Quinn is a really nice person who is unfortunately judged on the results of this football team instead of the kindness he shows to others off the field.  But Ryan is a loser and losers gonna lose, that's what they do.  As long as Ridley and Jones and Hurst, Gage, etc. can get wide open and Ryan can throw'em darts we'll put up points.  And as long as Ryan gets put into a position where the Packers adjust their game and disrupt the execution of DQ's playbook we will lose.  (i.e. halftime)

Because Matt Ryan has a first name, It's B.R.I.A.N. and Matt Ryan has a second name, it's H.O.Y.E.R.  I like to watch him every day and if you ask me why I'll say, "Cause Brian Hoyer has a way of blowing margins every day."

You're welcome.  Hope that l'il ditty gets stuck in your head tonight, AB.  

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Defensive rankings for those 3 seasons: 2013: 27th in yards, 27th in points, 32nd in 3rd down conversions, 29th in sacks 2014: 32nd in yards, 27th in points, 32nd in 3rd down conversions (fo

So all you got are 6 games that don't relate in anyway to the current situation?

Go ahead and post the defensive rankings in yards and points for 2013, 2014, and 2015....and prove to us how it’s not on our defensive head coaches defenses...

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This is an example of why people don't get along anymore in the world. You have done quite simply what our Media does. They start off with a narrative. They then choose to use only the facts that back their point of view and then write a well verbose article on how right they are expecting lots of claps on the back and lots of agitated responses. This of course brings out those that completely agree with you all the while alienating those that don't. The ones that don't agree with you then cherry pick the facts you skipped and throw them back at you like **** to a fan.

All you have done, is increased the rift between the ones that disagree with you and those that agree with your opinions on the matter. When the honest truth like everything is somewhere in the middle.

 

Kinda like he could have done more to help the situations, but without question a defense is responsible for a lead but Ryan could have done more to keep them off the field.

this statement is simple critical but objective.

 

this thread is one of those items that really exposes when one and one actually has the ability to be honest and objective when writing. In other words, you need to work on it you basically undermined what you intended to accomplish. A better goal would to of just actually include all the information, explain why you feel that the points of view that undermine your narrative were not valid then be sure to highlight the ones you agree with and use good logical reasons why they matter more.

 

Thought about a career in Hollywood?

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3 minutes ago, treboyplay said:

Matt Ryan definitely deserves some blame and criticism. It wasn't Mike Smith who had 2 turnovers in the NFCCG that helped lead to the 49er's comeback. It wasn't Mike Smith that had 2 INT's in the game before that against Seattle. It wasn't Dan Quinn who fumbled in the SB. (BTW) I blame Free in that situation too, but Matt could have also pointed out the rusher to make sure Free knew exactly what to do. Even though I personally think he had a really good game, I have to also point out it wasn't good enough. Our all time great Offense led by Matt only put up 21 points in the biggest game of his life after averaging 30+ the entire yr. You wanna say defense should do their part? **** they did give him 6 extra points on the scoreboard and the head honcho couldn't help put up enough points to secure the victory. It is what it is! 

Say whatever you want but Matt deserves some blame IMO. 

I don't think anyone here would argue that at times, MR deserves some of the blame. That's not the issue here. There are some that think he deserves the MAJORITY of the blame. That's where the issue lies.

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17 minutes ago, caponine said:

But with the 2012 defense they bailed Matt Ryan out ALOT. There were games where he had multiple int's or mistakes and the defenserose up. Its not just the yards,  that defense overall was good, the stats may not show it but they were a  big part to the falcons 2012 run and why they went so far. I still remember that 5 int game and the we still won 

2017 held an explosive offense to 15 points in the divisional game and did it a week earlier to the rams. They were good. Did it almost all season actually

2016 defense was young but grew up big the 2nd half of the season. They dominated an explosive saints team, rams, packers, seattle,  and patriots as well. Im not saying they were some elite defense but they did their part., 

I think youre misunderstanding me , im not fully putting the blame on Ryan but there has been games where the defense did as much as they could 

See but this is what I've been essentially saying the whole thread. You think I'm placing blame on only the defense and giving no fault to Ryan. That's not what I'm doing. Read this post again below...

I'm arguing that it's silly to place blame on Ryan like OP is suggesting. The purpose of his thread is that he's trying to argue that Ryan is the common denominator in the Falcons failures. I (and many others) are blaming the team, coaching staff, and organization. 

You're right that the defense made some plays in 2012, 2017, etc. Whenever the Falcons have an AVERAGE defense, the team is usually good. Whenever they have a running game, the team is usually good. These are the circumstances that ACTUALLY determine if the Falcons will field a good football team or not. But what many falcons fans do, including you, is look directly at the quarterback because that's what football fans do....they look at the highest paid player, or most important player, and point to him not being a good enough player.

Ryan is perfectly fine. It's proven you can win with him at QB. He is on pace to have a very solid year statistically. But it won't mean anything if this defense finishes 31st in the league or the running game is 25th. Ryan (like every QB) needs these things to be successful. I defend Ryan when people say he's the problem and must be replaced. That simply just isn't true. But I also don't think Ryan is irreplaceable nor do I think he's a superstar top 5 QB.

Take a look at every losing season the Falcons have had in the Ryan era. 2013, 2014, 2015, 2018, and 2019. What were the stats of the defense and of the rushing offense? Now look at the winning seasons and look at the exact same things.

What's the common denominator cap?

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Just now, Boise Falcon Fan said:

I don't think anyone here would argue that at times, MR deserves some of the blame. That's not the issue here. There are some that think he deserves the MAJORITY of the blame. That's where the issue lies.

I get what you're saying but at times it also seems to be people who talk like he doesn't deserve ANY blame at all.  I just like for everyone to be held accountable. Coach, players, etc...

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1 hour ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

I don't think anyone here would argue that at times, MR deserves some of the blame. That's not the issue here. There are some that think he deserves the MAJORITY of the blame. That's where the issue lies.

Some blame, sure. Losing is a team sport, and the QB is supposed to be the 2nd most important leader (behind the HC) on the team.

But this thread is just a silly vent. Falcons are Top 10 in league scoring offense PPG and (after tonight) will be at the very bottom of the barrel in scoring defense PPG. I’m sorry for the OP, but he’s off his rocker, as that’s not a QBing problem.

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10 minutes ago, Ghosts of Glanville said:

 5 pages arguing that the starting QB is the reason the defense gives up 34 points a game

Let me ask you a question. When a defense goes into a SB and holds a Hall Of Fame QB and Coach to 9 points through 3 qtrs of football, while also scoring 6 points for the team. Who's the reason and should get the blame then? 

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4 minutes ago, treboyplay said:

Let me ask you a question. When a defense goes into a SB and holds a Hall Of Fame QB and Coach to 9 points through 3 qtrs of football, while also scoring 6 points for the team. Who's the reason and should get the blame then? 

The head coach. He deserves the credit for having a great game plan against the best QB/HC duo ever. He also deserves blame for not adjusting it once it was figured out.

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1 hour ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

Yea funny...blame the TEAM sounds so much more logical than blaming one player....yet OP called me illogical in this thread...

Well, blame/fault isn't something handed down from a message board.  It involves lives altered, careers stymied, professional opportunities lost...

Mike Smith - canned/out of football
Dirk Koetter - canned/rehired/fans calling for his head again
Marquand Manuel - canned/coaching DB's in PHI (demotion)
Dan Quinn - walking the plank
Thomas Dimitroff - right behind Quinn
Matt Ryan - here's a quarter of a billion dollars of Arthur Blank's money from 2013 thru the rest of your contract.  We're sorry we've surrounded you with such terribleness, but we'll get it right on try #3?

That doesn't sound like accountability to me.  
 

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35 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

The head coach. He deserves the credit for having a great game plan against the best QB/HC duo ever. He also deserves blame for not adjusting it once it was figured out.

And what’s weird is the people that think Ryan’s own play cost that game.

Falcons have regressed since-

1a Moving from a very good game manager and situationally aware HC to a very poor one that can help get a team to build a lead but does not facilitate closing games by blindly trusting a terrible defense or mind-blowing lack of controlling flow of the game with a lead late. See: SB, Bears and Cowboys 

1b Speaking of which; losing a consistent ground game after Turner hit a wall starting in 2012 (outside of a couple good years with Freeman and Coleman healthy)

1c Getting even worse defensively in the DQ era than in the majority of time Smith was here; leading to far more blown leads under DQ than Smith

Given DQ hasn’t found a DC to settle on in 6 years as HC and decided to keep Kyle’s offense but refused to promote from the same tree and went with a college coach 1 year in from alcohol recovery...good guy but terrible hire at the time

And the Falcons thought going to Koetter again would work by forcing Dirk to work with Mularkey’s visions of a run game; while employing a pure ZBS resume OL coach? And they are to run Kyle’s offense and theirs in some dumb attempt at overthinking? It’s as bad as this thread.

It’s amazing the offense puts up anything consistently with the run game gone once again since 2017, with a traditional style QB and constant OC overturn while KNOWING the defense likely is going to cause you to need to be perfect or keep scoring because your coaches don’t have faith in running out the clock or defense actually protecting a lead in the 2nd half.

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Now, imagine Ryan gets to play under Kyle the majority of his career to make up for the terrible defense instead of getting a new OC every 2-3 years.

In other words, what if the Saints had average or mediocre offensive coaching but the same terrible defense.

Welcome to Ryan’s career for the Falcons coach history...pathetic.

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1 hour ago, treboyplay said:

Let me ask you a question. When a defense goes into a SB and holds a Hall Of Fame QB and Coach to 9 points through 3 qtrs of football, while also scoring 6 points for the team. Who's the reason and should get the blame then? 

If you’re suggesting it was the QB who had a passer rating of 144+ that game, then you’re completely full of it.

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1 hour ago, treboyplay said:

Let me ask you a question. When a defense goes into a SB and holds a Hall Of Fame QB and Coach to 9 points through 3 qtrs of football, while also scoring 6 points for the team. Who's the reason and should get the blame then? 

Ryan was lights out that night.  And let’s not kid ourselves.  Those two turnovers in the first half saved 6-14 points.  It could have easily been 14-9 or 17-14 Patriots at the half.  The Patriots moved the ball all night.  28-3 was deceptive.  Yes the Falcons never should have blown it, but once the Patriots stopped turning it over they climbed back in it.  
 

It took a team effort to blow that thing.  But to act like the game was lost because Ryan didn’t do enough is ignoring facts.  

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44 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

ENEqw4nXkAEOrCU?format=jpg&name=900x900
Now, imagine Ryan gets to play under Kyle the majority of his career to make up for the terrible defense instead of getting a new OC every 2-3 years.

In other words, what if the Saints had average or mediocre offensive coaching but the same terrible defense.

Welcome to Ryan’s career for the Falcons coach history...pathetic.

I’d like to point out that Aaron Rodgers only won the Super Bowl when he had the top-ranked defense. . .

Edited by Ghosts of Glanville
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4 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

Matthew Stafford is 9th, one behind Ryan.  Whoopee.

Ryan and Stafford have spent their careers with suspect coaching and bad defenses, which put both in a lot of comeback situations.  
 

One has QB’d his team to the Super Bowl, six playoff appearances, won the MVP and is likely on his way to Canton.  The other has never won a playoff game.  
 

One played with Calvin Johnson, the other with Julio Jones.  
 

So if Ryan is the center of our problems, wouldn’t it make sense that his career more closely resembles Stafford’s????

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41 minutes ago, Vandy said:

If you’re suggesting it was the QB who had a passer rating of 144+ that game, then you’re completely full of it.

Especially if you consider how awful our offensive line was that night. They were pressuring Ryan all night. If Freeman picks up one block, we win. If Matthews doesn’t get bullied all night by Chris Long, we win. The offensive line struggled all night and a lot was injury related. Schraeder, Mack, and Matthews were all battling injuries.

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15 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Whoopee? That reminds me, Where’s the guy (Rodgers ) you were dry humping the other night? :ninja:

He’s won 7 more games than Ryan while playing in 15 fewer.  In addition, 1 more first-team All-Pro, 1 more MVP, and most importantly...1 more Super Bowl.

But I’m sure that was all BJ Raji.  Why do you ask?

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6 minutes ago, Ghosts of Glanville said:

I’d like to point out that Aaron Rodgers only won the Super Bowl when he had the top-ranked defense. . .

Yep, carried Rodgers to the SB in fact. What's Ryan's worse playoff win?

Brees had good and Rodgers had incredibly good pass Defense when they each won a SB.

People talk up our defense down the stretch and in the playoffs.

Falcons had 31 TDs allowed to 12 INTs in the regular season and generated 6 TOs in 3 playoff games. RZ defense was 32nd in the league.

Saints had just 15 TDs allowed to 26 INTs (!!!) in the regular season and generated 8 TOs in 3 playoff games. 5 in the NFCCG alone, where Favre was bountygated and NO wins on a FG off an INT.

#2 RZ defense in the league!!

Packers had just 16 TDs allowed to 24 INTs (!!!) in the regular season and generated 11 (!!!) TOs in 4 playoff games. 12th ranked RZ D.

It's a miracle we even made the SB and equally dumb the coaches didn't play for points/time managment.

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1 hour ago, Ghosts of Glanville said:

Ryan was lights out that night.  And let’s not kid ourselves.  Those two turnovers in the first half saved 6-14 points.  It could have easily been 14-9 or 17-14 Patriots at the half.  The Patriots moved the ball all night.  28-3 was deceptive.  Yes the Falcons never should have blown it, but once the Patriots stopped turning it over they climbed back in it.  
 

It took a team effort to blow that thing.  But to act like the game was lost because Ryan didn’t do enough is ignoring facts.  

Once again I ask who does the blame go to when the offense only scores 21 points? The defense gave them 6 points and the offense led by Ryan couldn’t get it done. You can spin it however you want but to ignore that the offense scored 9-10 points less than their season average is ignoring facts. 

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Agree.  People keep on saying defense but where's the money?  Spent on offense.  Matt ryan, julio, and every year we have a high priced rb.  When your offense is so heavily paid, you need to put up points and the offense is expected to carry.

Edited by BLM
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