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1 hour ago, FloweryStump said:

I am not sure what you're trying to say here.  But what I am saying is, no, I don't fully trust what any player or coach says to the media about another player or coach.  Because they are trained to give that response.  It would only be a very small part of my evaluation of a coach.  I want to see the coach in question deliver his own message, show poise and consistency, display intelligence.   I want to see those thing for myself... not just the stereotyped, rubber-stamped media answer the others in his building will undoubtedly give him.  

But you trust what some perennial bad organization says instead?
 

Like I said earlier, I’ve had a belly-full of polished coach -speak the last 3 years telling the listeners what said coach thinks they want to hear. Bring me in someone who is honest, and can bring results. 
 

 

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Do not want. Tired of the Falcons hiring unproven coordinators that made their names riding the coattails of great head coaches. Look at Matt Nagy with the Bears. He was supposed to be great too. But

Yep...although I’d also be fine with a coordinator who clearly runs the offense or defense on their team and isn’t run through the HC’s system. 

Coat-tails how...He has been with Reid since 98 in Philly and worked his way up the letter. If anything Quinn was a coat tail coach. We need a mind like Bieniemy. We would keep building the OL and run

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2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

But you trust what some perennial bad organization says instead?
 

Like I said earlier, I’ve had a belly-full of polished coach -speak the last 3 years telling the listener what said coach thinks they want to hear. Bring me in someone who is honest, and can bring results. 
 

 

We agree to disagree then.  Its the definition of the Peter Principle at work.  If you hire a person to perform duties they have never done before, and/or have not displayed prerequisite abilities to perform them, do not be surprised when they fail. Being an OC for Patrick Mahomes' improv offense does not equate well to organizational success as a head coach, in my opinion.  

 

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2 hours ago, JDaveG said:

I was one of the ones saying keep Quinn late last season.  So I'm part of the problem.  But I honestly think we crapped the bed big time not hiring Kevin Stefanski last year.

He was the one.  I don't see another, including Bienemy, who I like.  Pete Carmichaels could be a good choice, but who knows if he's a decent head coach, and it's always and forever Payton's offense.  At least Carmichaels has called plays.

The only offensive coaches I'd risk a flyer on are folks like Mike McDaniel in San Fran, but even there, he doesn't call plays.  There are possibly folks I haven't yet considered, but of those I know, Stefanski is the only one I said "if we had a chance to hire that guy....."

But now it's gone.

You never know. At this point, I'd be down for a successful college coach or a coordinator that clearly runs his operation. It's why I don't like Bienemy. I think he's literally in the exact same position as Dan Quinn but only on the offensive side. Quinn was running Pete Carroll's defense with an elite group of players. Just like Bienemy is now with KC. That's Andy Reid's offense, with the best QB in the NFL and tons of weapons. That's like becoming rich off a trust fund. 

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6 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

You never know. At this point, I'd be down for a successful college coach or a coordinator that clearly runs his operation. It's why I don't like Bienemy. I think he's literally in the exact same position as Dan Quinn but only on the offensive side. Quinn was running Pete Carroll's defense with an elite group of players. Just like Bienemy is now with KC. That's Andy Reid's offense, with the best QB in the NFL and tons of weapons. That's like becoming rich off a trust fund. 

Exactly what I was trying to say last night. I just didn't articulate it the way I wanted to.

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1 minute ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

The position's that Bienemy and Quinn have been in are so eerily similar. 

But I think you and I are on the same page for sure. 

Absolutely. Bienemy scares the ever living crap out of me after the Quinn flop. If we're going to go the unproven assistant route then I rather go for someone like Mike McDaniel who's a direct descendant of Kyle Shanahan. Especially since we're still using the Shanny terminology and philosophy. There wouldn't be much of an adjustment for him or the players and we could hit the ground running. McDaniel is just as unproven as Bienemy but he's a better fit for where the Falcons are currently at today.

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2 hours ago, FloweryStump said:

John Fox did not even know about the move to go up one spot to get Trubisky.  That was the GM, Ryan Pace doing that and not even letting Fox know about it.  It is well documented.  And Nagy chose to go to Chicago to develop Trubisky.  The two developed a relationship at the NFL Combine and kept in touch afterwards, according to several media reports.  The best thing to happen to the Chiefs was Trubisky was not on the board when they chose Mahomes... who knows what would have happened if he was there.  Seems obvious now, but Trubisky was the top rated QB that year on nearly everyone's draft board.

 

From what I remember Mahomes shot up the draft board and was always on the Chiefs radar. Nagy chose to go to Chicago because it was a a promotion from his current position. I can’t find anything that says they had a relationship post combine. The only piece I can find is that Trubisky met with the Chiefs coaching staff and impressed them. It still doesn’t change the fact that he inherited Trubisky as his QB. 

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22 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

From what I remember Mahomes shot up the draft board and was always on the Chiefs radar. Nagy chose to go to Chicago because it was a a promotion from his current position. I can’t find anything that says they had a relationship post combine. The only piece I can find is that Trubisky met with the Chiefs coaching staff and impressed them. It still doesn’t change the fact that he inherited Trubisky as his QB. 

Nagy CHOSE Trubisky.  He had a relationship with him before CHOOSING to go to Chicago:

https://www.nfl.com/news/matt-nagy-mitch-trubisky-bond-pre-dates-chicago-bears-days-0ap3000000950270

Additionally, Nagy had interviewed with the Colts.  The Colts were pursuing him hard, but he CHOSE to go with Trubisky and the Bears over Luck and the Colts.  The Chicago GM wanted to lock him in because he knew he was the Colts first choice as well.

Regardless, it shows that just because you coach and have success with one talented unit, it does not guarantee you will have success with another one.  We need a head coach and GM combo that can improve our overall team.  Why do we need a flavor-of-the-week OC in ATL?  We are fine on that side of the ball.

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5 hours ago, AUTiger7222 said:

The Chiefs never had a record setting offense with Alex Smith and they were still always losing in the pllayoffs with Alex Smith. I've done explained that is what I meant in other posts.

I don't care about record stats.  I care about a coach making the pedestrian great.  Andy Reid is his offense.  The QB's just prosper.

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5 hours ago, AUTiger7222 said:

Doug Pederson was good early in his going with the Eagles but the last few years they've really struggled and are 0-2 this year. Honestly, Pederson has 1 good year with the Eagles and they won the Super Bowl. In his other years with the Eagles they're only 25-25. They've done that playing in a terrible division. Had they been in the same division with the Saints they wouldn't even be 25-25.

He got a ring with a backup quarterback that has been a journeyman since.  Get me as a fan a parade and party.  He also made Wentz look really good for a few years until the league caught up with everything Wentz can't do.  

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6 hours ago, AUTiger7222 said:

It's funny you mentioned that because when Mitchell Trubisky was coming out of the draft his NFL comp was Matt Ryan. And while Nagy inherited Trubisky, he took the job knowing that Trubisky was going to be the QB. He was hired specifically to develop Trubisky.

yea but unfortunately he is garbage so there is nothing to develop if Nagy gets watson or mahomeboy their offense would be elite but they stuck with a garbage can of a QB plus Nagy wasnt there when Trubisky got drafted thats not his QB the GM wont let him get his own QB to develop 

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On 9/21/2020 at 2:32 PM, Boise Falcon Fan said:

Doesn't have a **** thing to do with him being black! It has everything to do with the fact that AR is the play caller. Also how many college RB's do you know are HC's anywhere? There maybe someone, but I can't think of one.  

He also may not interview well. He might be smart about football, but can he articulate it in an interview? 

 

nah. anybody from the patriots gets jobs and they suck. he needs to get his chance

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On 9/21/2020 at 7:35 PM, FloweryStump said:

Nagy CHOSE Trubisky.  He had a relationship with him before CHOOSING to go to Chicago:

https://www.nfl.com/news/matt-nagy-mitch-trubisky-bond-pre-dates-chicago-bears-days-0ap3000000950270

Additionally, Nagy had interviewed with the Colts.  The Colts were pursuing him hard, but he CHOSE to go with Trubisky and the Bears over Luck and the Colts.  The Chicago GM wanted to lock him in because he knew he was the Colts first choice as well.

Regardless, it shows that just because you coach and have success with one talented unit, it does not guarantee you will have success with another one.  We need a head coach and GM combo that can improve our overall team.  Why do we need a flavor-of-the-week OC in ATL?  We are fine on that side of the ball.

Meeting a player during the drafting process isn’t having a “relationship” with him. That’s a gross overstatement. You can say that he’s familiar with the player. However, having a relationship with someone is more in depth. The piece you quoted also said “Perhaps” which is not an indicator that Trubisky played a role in him wanting to go to the Bears. It’s more of a possibility, not a definite.

Using your own words of “just because you coach and have success with one talented unit, it does not guarantee you will have success with another one.”. That could be applied to Harbaugh as well. So it’s a moot argument. 

Also using your own words of “Why do we need a flavor-of-the-week OC in ATL?  We are fine on that side of the ball.”. Just because a coach/coordinator is a defensive minded, doesn’t mean we’re going to magically be better on defense. That’s not how it works at all.

You need a HC that can put together a system and staff that will have sustained success regardless of if we lose our coordinators. Belichick did that, and Andy Reid did that. Does that mean Bienemy can do that? No. 

You also need a HC that isn’t going to cause drama behind the scenes with the owner and staff. That’s not a recipe for success either. 

Bottom line is that you don’t take HC candidates off the list because they are “unproven”. 

 

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1 hour ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Meeting a player during the drafting process isn’t having a “relationship” with him. That’s a gross overstatement. You can say that he’s familiar with the player. However, having a relationship with someone is more in depth. The piece you quoted also said “Perhaps” which is not an indicator that Trubisky played a role in him wanting to go to the Bears. It’s more of a possibility, not a definite.

Using your own words of “just because you coach and have success with one talented unit, it does not guarantee you will have success with another one.”. That could be applied to Harbaugh as well. So it’s a moot argument. 

Also using your own words of “Why do we need a flavor-of-the-week OC in ATL?  We are fine on that side of the ball.”. Just because a coach/coordinator is a defensive minded, doesn’t mean we’re going to magically be better on defense. That’s not how it works at all.

You need a HC that can put together a system and staff that will have sustained success regardless of if we lose our coordinators. Belichick did that, and Andy Reid did that. Does that mean Bienemy can do that? No. 

You also need a HC that isn’t going to cause drama behind the scenes with the owner and staff. That’s not a recipe for success either. 

Bottom line is that you don’t take HC candidates off the list because they are “unproven”. 

 

They spent 6 hours together in one day.  And stayed in touch with text messages, even during Trubisky's rookie season.  Go watch Nagy's intro press conference.  Regardless... Nagy chose Chicago and Trubisky over Indianapolis and Luck.

I agree with much of what you are saying.  We are saying a lot of the same things but in different ways, and emphasizing different aspects.

I agree that you don't take coaches off the list because they are unproven.  But I would have guys with evidence that they can do the job well ahead of those that do not.  Head coach vs. a coordinator is a completely different set of skills.  It drives me crazy seeing people thinking its basically the same thing.  Its not.  Peter Principle:  people rise through a hierarchy of organizational responsibilities until their incompetence is revealed.  From what I know and have heard of Bienemy, I do not see a great head coach.  I could be wrong, but we all have our opinions.

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On 9/21/2020 at 3:41 PM, JD dirtybird21 said:

You never know. At this point, I'd be down for a successful college coach or a coordinator that clearly runs his operation. It's why I don't like Bienemy. I think he's literally in the exact same position as Dan Quinn but only on the offensive side. Quinn was running Pete Carroll's defense with an elite group of players. Just like Bienemy is now with KC. That's Andy Reid's offense, with the best QB in the NFL and tons of weapons. That's like becoming rich off a trust fund. 

Well put.

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1 hour ago, FloweryStump said:

They spent 6 hours together in one day.  And stayed in touch with text messages, even during Trubisky's rookie season.  Go watch Nagy's intro press conference.  Regardless... Nagy chose Chicago and Trubisky over Indianapolis and Luck.

I agree with much of what you are saying.  We are saying a lot of the same things but in different ways, and emphasizing different aspects.

I agree that you don't take coaches off the list because they are unproven.  But I would have guys with evidence that they can do the job well ahead of those that do not.  Head coach vs. a coordinator is a completely different set of skills.  It drives me crazy seeing people thinking its basically the same thing.  Its not.  Peter Principle:  people rise through a hierarchy of organizational responsibilities until their incompetence is revealed.  From what I know and have heard of Bienemy, I do not see a great head coach.  I could be wrong, but we all have our opinions.


It’s common to spend time with first round draft picks. Especially a QB first pick that high in the first round. A quick Google search shows that a lot of what you are stating are rumors or from “a source close”, nothing really tangible. The same source stated it was due to the uncertainty of Luck’s injury. Around the 10 minute mark of his intro interview, a reporter asked him about his connection with, Trubisky and how much influence it had in him choosing the Bears. He said that it was a part of it but it’s not the reason why he chose the Bears. 
 

I agree that HC vs Coordinator is different. The same jargon and reasoning was used when the discussion was between Rex Ryan and Dan Quinn, and we all saw how that played out. Point being is just because you’ve had the HC title before doesn’t mean you’re the best qualified for that position.  

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8 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:


It’s common to spend time with first round draft picks. Especially a QB first pick that high in the first round. A quick Google search shows that a lot of what you are stating are rumors or from “a source close”, nothing really tangible. The same source stated it was due to the uncertainty of Luck’s injury. Around the 10 minute mark of his intro interview, a reporter asked him about his connection with, Trubisky and how much influence it had in him choosing the Bears. He said that it was a part of it but it’s not the reason why he chose the Bears. 
 

I agree that HC vs Coordinator is different. The same jargon and reasoning was used when the discussion was between Rex Ryan and Dan Quinn, and we all saw how that played out. Point being is just because you’ve had the HC title before doesn’t mean you’re the best qualified for that position.  

So you admit that Nagy said his relationship with Trubisky was part of the reason why he chose the Bears.  Thank you.  Of course it was not the ONLY reason (who said that?), but part of the reason he went there.

I  agree... I was a supporter of Rex for the job over DQ.  I'm a newbie on the board, so you'll just have to take my word for it.  😁  I agree with your last point that just because you've been a HC before it doesn't mean you're the best qualified for the job.  But at this point, particularly given our recent team history, I'd be more inclined to go after a known commodity than rolling the dice.

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On 9/21/2020 at 5:23 PM, FloweryStump said:

We agree to disagree then.  Its the definition of the Peter Principle at work.  If you hire a person to perform duties they have never done before, and/or have not displayed prerequisite abilities to perform them, do not be surprised when they fail. Being an OC for Patrick Mahomes' improv offense does not equate well to organizational success as a head coach, in my opinion.  

 

One of the most ignorant of facts statements I've ever read on this board.  EVERY first time head coach has never been a head coach before.  EVERY first time head coach has shown the prerequisite abilities to be a head coach or they never would have been interviewed and given the job...

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