Time To Move On From Cover 3

[FalconsIn2012 35,693]

Once Morris took over mid season we started utilizing a lot more Tampa 2 variations to great success.  For some reason we went away from it Sunday.  Hopefully that  trend does not continue moving forward.  We suck in single high and Cover 3...lol

 

 

[Beast-N-Da-Sheetz 3,980]

Quinn's trash *** defensive scheme didn't even work for himself nor Richard Smith, now he's forcing it on Morris.

[kiwifalcon 19,421]

@Knight of God said it keep the scheme just make sure you got the key positions covered with better players 😂 

Nothing wrong with Cover 3 Nothing.

[Francis York Morgan 25,146]

12 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

@Knight of God said it keep the scheme just make sure you got the key positions covered with better players 😂 

Nothing wrong with Cover 3 Nothing.

Little column A, little column B, but yeah - there's nothing wrong with Cover 3 whatsoever as long as it's used in the right situations, you disguise the coverage occasionally, vary the pressure, and have the right personnel. Y'know, like with every coverage. Thing is, we really don't have the right players. We should be running very little single high with our safety situation and our young CBs. Simple

There's something to be said for mostly running variations of just a few different coverages since you can have so much variation within them and get really accustomed to your responsibilities. But you gotta put your players in position to succeed. Last Sunday, they really didn't do that.

[TheFatboi 28,987]

8 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Once Morris took over mid season we started utilizing a lot more Tampa 2 variations to great success.  For some reason we went away from it Sunday.  Hopefully that  trend does not continue moving forward.  We suck in single high and Cover 3...lol

 

 

The reason the success rate is so high in cover 3 is because it gives the underneath. It’s not necessarily all on coverage. The LOB had a high success rate as well. Cover 3 will always have a high success rate. The object is to keep evetyhing in front and make the quick tackle. When it’s played right it’s hard to beat deep. But it will still have a high success rate. Tom Brady dinked and dunked with high success against the Seahawks in the SB. But it took forever to reach the end zone because the hawks made tackles quickly. That’s why i don’t look at success rates of coverages as end all be all. When Smith was the HC this thread would’ve been “its time to get rid of cover 2. Which many of y’all were saying then anyway. The Seahawks still run cover 3. What kind of success rate did Matt and Co have? I would think pretty successful. The difference was they didn’t shoot them selves in the foot with penalties on 3rd and 23. Give up td’s on 4th and 5 because a corner played bad technique, and miscommunication in must win situations. AND probably the biggest. They didn’t have to face a Russell Wilson who made plays with takk knocking the snot out of him. Russ is that good. It ain’t like we play a Russell Wilson every week. 

[Ezekiel 25:17 17,416]

7 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

@Knight of God said it keep the scheme just make sure you got the key positions covered with better players 😂 

Nothing wrong with Cover 3 Nothing.

Yeah, they need to actually run it first before talking about getting rid of it! 
 

I don’t know what da He!! they were running and obviously they didn’t either!

[falcndave 4,844]

Both of these offenses work against Cover 3 defenses all the time. Seattle changed theirs up by bringing edge pressure that they have never shown consistently under Carroll. While they still got lit hard by Ryan and company, the change bought them a few drive stops that proved to be the difference (along with a key fumble by ATL). Atlanta on the other hand, gave Seattle excatly what they practice against.

Don't draw too many scheme conclusions from this game. These teams meet almost every year one way or another. They know each other well and "division game" type scenarios apply. They know each other and the one that executes the best normally wins. 

[falcon4life404 72]

You got to have a fast smart Instinctive safety there and we don’t have one

[Xfactor 4,074]

43 minutes ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

Yeah, they need to actually run it first before talking about getting rid of it! 
 

I don’t know what da He!! they were running and obviously they didn’t either!

Catch up 3

[Smiler11 6,206]

It seemed like there was conscious decision to move away from cover 3 in the back half of last year, which makes a ton of sense given Morris' background with Tampa 2 and the personnel we have. It's mind boggling that we ran so much of it in week 1. I hope this isn't a sign of DQ meddling in the defense again. 

[Falcanuck 10,532]

First rule of cover 3 is to not get beat deep and the Falcons get beat deep every game 

[Ezekiel 25:17 17,416]

57 minutes ago, Xfactor said:

Catch up 3

I see what you did there! 

[ATLSlobberKnockers 8,239]

Agreed. Defense plays best in cover 2. Seems like they just want Kazee on the field. His *** needs to be in the bench

[vel 32,058]

The problem with the Falcons Cover 3 is that people think the zones are "Three deep zones" but forget the safety should overlap the outside deep thirds. Effectively, it becomes deep down field doubles. See below:

Jessie Bates is a dog on the back end. But look at how he regularly makes plays outside the numbers. This allows your CBs to play aggressive but still have safety help. This diagram is basically how the Falcons play Cover 3 with Kazee at FS. No overlap. 

Teams know it and they know he's not making plays out there. This is also why they suck so terribly at covering trips. It shifts Kazee out of position and they just pick on the lone CB backside, which is usually Oliver. That's why people think Oliver sucks. He doesn't. Just look at the video of Bates. His CB gets beat twice on a vert route outside the numbers. That is VERY common. But Bates comes over and makes the play because he has the range to do it. 

[FalconsIn2012 35,693]

4 minutes ago, vel said:

The problem with the Falcons Cover 3 is that people think the zones are "Three deep zones" but forget the safety should overlap the outside deep thirds. Effectively, it becomes deep down field doubles. See below:

Jessie Bates is a dog on the back end. But look at how he regularly makes plays outside the numbers. This allows your CBs to play aggressive but still have safety help. This diagram is basically how the Falcons play Cover 3 with Kazee at FS. No overlap. 

Teams know it and they know he's not making plays out there. This is also why they suck so terribly at covering trips. It shifts Kazee out of position and they just pick on the lone CB backside, which is usually Oliver. That's why people think Oliver sucks. He doesn't. Just look at the video of Bates. His CB gets beat twice on a vert route outside the numbers. That is VERY common. But Bates comes over and makes the play because he has the range to do it. 

That dude is a beast.  @Knight of God is gonna like that highlight package.  And yes, your FS must have both seed & instinct to help protect his boundary corners.  There are only a handful of guys on the planet capable.  Without one of them the scheme is vulnerable

[vel 32,058]

8 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

That dude is a beast.  @Knight of God is gonna like that highlight package.  And yes, your FS must have both seed & instinct to help protect his boundary corners.  There are only a handful of guys on the planet capable.  Without one of them the scheme is vulnerable

That's what's frustrated me about this defense. You don't even see the attempts at plays like what Bates is doing. That's because:

1. Rico and Kazee are corners playing safety. They are not natural safeties
2. The coaches are teaching a very conservative style of an aggressive defense

Cover 3 is always met with CBs playing off because they have to protect the deep. They're fine giving up the underneath, because there are LBs/S underneath them in the hook/curl/flats. 

The Seahawks Cover 3 put the CBs at the LOS to disrupt timing and put the CBs in trail, taking away the comebacks, but putting stress on the deep space because they are now in a compromised position. But when you have a safety who has sideline to sideline range, it works because they always have over the top help now. But I just don't feel like they are teaching it this way. They are teaching basic Cover 3 principles and that's why Kazee is always parked in the middle of the field. They're putting the CBs in a compromised position of being press corners but never getting in a trail position because they need to be able to guard a vert route with no help. Who can do that? 

[thofin21 3,130]

The game against the Seahawks looked like Cover 0

[vel 32,058]

3 minutes ago, thofin21 said:

The game against the Seahawks looked like Cover 0

That's what it's going to look like with a range limited FS and the CBs playing aggressive press. They have to have perfect technique or it's 6. Find me a perfect human and they'll be a perfect CB for this defense. 

[Knight of God 53,286]

44 minutes ago, vel said:

The problem with the Falcons Cover 3 is that people think the zones are "Three deep zones" but forget the safety should overlap the outside deep thirds. Effectively, it becomes deep down field doubles. See below:

Jessie Bates is a dog on the back end. But look at how he regularly makes plays outside the numbers. This allows your CBs to play aggressive but still have safety help. This diagram is basically how the Falcons play Cover 3 with Kazee at FS. No overlap. 

Teams know it and they know he's not making plays out there. This is also why they suck so terribly at covering trips. It shifts Kazee out of position and they just pick on the lone CB backside, which is usually Oliver. That's why people think Oliver sucks. He doesn't. Just look at the video of Bates. His CB gets beat twice on a vert route outside the numbers. That is VERY common. But Bates comes over and makes the play because he has the range to do it. 

Man. I'm ok it's just something in my eye is all.

[Knight of God 53,286]

23 minutes ago, vel said:

That's what's frustrated me about this defense. You don't even see the attempts at plays like what Bates is doing. That's because:

1. Rico and Kazee are corners playing safety. They are not natural safeties
2. The coaches are teaching a very conservative style of an aggressive defense

Cover 3 is always met with CBs playing off because they have to protect the deep. They're fine giving up the underneath, because there are LBs/S underneath them in the hook/curl/flats. 

The Seahawks Cover 3 put the CBs at the LOS to disrupt timing and put the CBs in trail, taking away the comebacks, but putting stress on the deep space because they are now in a compromised position. But when you have a safety who has sideline to sideline range, it works because they always have over the top help now. But I just don't feel like they are teaching it this way. They are teaching basic Cover 3 principles and that's why Kazee is always parked in the middle of the field. They're putting the CBs in a compromised position of being press corners but never getting in a trail position because they need to be able to guard a vert route with no help. Who can do that? 

That's broken down very well. This is why I was upset at continuously stacking CBs and no FS. Range is not overrated and no, the 40 isn't the most important but it gives a valuation. Bates is a guy I did hope for.

In my opinion, we haven't locked the center of the field. No one in the backfield or corps is getting help st all. I dont even understand what we are doing. Even if it were the two, you still need more than what we have out there.

Now, as far as corners playing safety. Antrel Rolle may have played a part in this. I admit, I was excited Allen was moved to FS and thought he'd be like Rolle, but no. 

[FalconsIn2012 35,693]

3 minutes ago, Knight of God said:

That's broken down very well. This is why I was upset at continuously stacking CBs and no FS. Range is not overrated and no, the 40 isn't the most important but it gives a valuation. Bates is a guy I did hope for.

In my opinion, we haven't locked the center of the field. No one in the backfield or corps is getting help st all. I dont even understand what we are doing. Even if it were the two, you still need more than what we have out there.

Now, as far as corners playing safety. Antrel Rolle may have played a part in this. I admit, I was excited Allen was moved to FS and thought he'd be like Rolle, but no. 

And this first game had me wondering why a veteran linebacker who is solid in coverage was released.  We were lost in the middle of the field and IMO Bucannon would have helped

[Knight of God 53,286]

Just now, FalconsIn2012 said:

And this first game had me wondering why a veteran linebacker who is solid in coverage was released.  We were lost in the middle of the field and IMO Bucannon would have helped

Same here bro

[Sidecar Falcon 7,784]

11 minutes ago, Knight of God said:

That's broken down very well. This is why I was upset at continuously stacking CBs and no FS. Range is not overrated and no, the 40 isn't the most important but it gives a valuation. Bates is a guy I did hope for.

In my opinion, we haven't locked the center of the field. No one in the backfield or corps is getting help st all. I dont even understand what we are doing. Even if it were the two, you still need more than what we have out there.

Now, as far as corners playing safety. Antrel Rolle may have played a part in this. I admit, I was excited Allen was moved to FS and thought he'd be like Rolle, but no. 

^ This. 
 

40 speed is nice to have but it is definitely overrated to an extent. I’d rather have a guy with great change of direction and instinct. 

[Knight of God 53,286]

Just now, Sidecar Falcon said:

^ This. 
 

40 speed is nice to have but it is definitely overrated to an extent. I’d rather have a guy with great change of direction and instinct. 

Man we have instinct, no range. Allen and Kazee have no range...no good 40 time either...lol

[Osiruz 10,079]

Been saying Kazee is terrible, cover 2 suits our defense better.