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Clowney could sign with Aints


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If we released James Carpenter today, and then he signed with the Bucs...this would be our fanbase:  

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8 hours ago, FloweryStump said:

If you understand the game within the game... that is exactly how it works:

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LOL...sure it is. 

Fowler’s job isn’t fully dependent on who or what his DT is or does, you and media vastly overrate that variable and underrate the importance of DC and scheme.....his job is to beat the opposing OT. If he does that and his DC schemes him opportunities, he’ll get his sacks. If he doesn’t, he won’t, no matter who the DT is.

Wade Phillips had more to do with Fowler’s success in gathering sacks last year than Aaron Donald did. But at end of day, Fowler must control what he can control, which is beat the OT.

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9 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

See, that's one part I disagree on. Vic isn't pressuring much at all. His sack totals is basically the total number of pass rush related plays he made all year. Total. Period. So, how can one project that? If you'd say he'd luck into cleanup sacks a few times, yeah, but wouldn't anyone given the sheer number of pass rush snaps he got?

VIc has never had a high pressure rate....but closes the deal better than 90% of pass rushers, which is why he’s such a frustrating talent. If he developed a repertoire of moves he could have been an all-time great IMO. But because he hasn’t, he’s very dependent on DC/scheme to gather sacks.
 

He definitely would have had more sacks 1st half of last year if we had ran a better scheme....especially if secondary had played dialed in. 

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

LOL...sure it is. 

Fowler’s job isn’t fully dependent on who or what his DT is or does, you and media vastly overrate that variable and underrate the importance of DC and scheme.....his job is to beat the opposing OT. If he does that and his DC schemes him opportunities, he’ll get his sacks. If he doesn’t, he won’t, no matter who the DT is.

Wade Phillips had more to do with Fowler’s success in gathering sacks last year than Aaron Donald did. But at end of day, Fowler must control what he can control, which is beat the OT.

Good post

Phillips is a world class DC.  His unique 1 gap 34 was perfect for the Rams DL.  
 

Donald is All Pro regardless of who his DC is...but he turned into arguably the best player in football under Phillips.  Before Phillips he averaged 9.5 sacks per game. With Phillips 15 sacks per game.  I wonder if his numbers drop this year without him

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2 hours ago, Vandy said:

LOL...sure it is. 

Fowler’s job isn’t fully dependent on who or what his DT is or does, you and media vastly overrate that variable and underrate the importance of DC and scheme.....his job is to beat the opposing OT. If he does that and his DC schemes him opportunities, he’ll get his sacks. If he doesn’t, he won’t, no matter who the DT is.

Wade Phillips had more to do with Fowler’s success in gathering sacks last year than Aaron Donald did. But at end of day, Fowler must control what he can control, which is beat the OT.

Of course its not FULLY dependent on who he is playing with, but I believe you place too little weight on that aspect and too much on Wade Phillips scheme.  PFF analysts, career coaches, and respected scouts will all tell you:  "Its more about the Jimmy's and the Joe's than the X's and the O's".  In other words, scheme plays a role, but not nearly as much as personnel.  I guess you know better though.

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4 hours ago, Vandy said:

LOL...sure it is. 

Fowler’s job isn’t fully dependent on who or what his DT is or does, you and media vastly overrate that variable and underrate the importance of DC and scheme.....his job is to beat the opposing OT. If he does that and his DC schemes him opportunities, he’ll get his sacks. If he doesn’t, he won’t, no matter who the DT is.

Wade Phillips had more to do with Fowler’s success in gathering sacks last year than Aaron Donald did. But at end of day, Fowler must control what he can control, which is beat the OT.

Here is something we can use to test our perspectives during this season.  The production of Fowler vs. Leonard Floyd of the Rams this season.  Two top-10 edge rush picks from the 2016 Draft that have both been labeled as "disappointing".  Fowler's stock improved dramatically last season with 11.5 sacks (for a career total of 27.5), while Floyd started all 16 games last year and had 3 sacks (for a career total of 18.5).  From the perspective of a casual fan, Fowler should blow away Floyd's production this year.  I am saying that gap will reduce DRAMATICALLY due to Floyd playing with Donald this season, and Floyd may even have a higher output than Fowler.  And when it happens, you can't use "scheme" in your argument because they fired Wade Phillips and replaced him with a no-name rookie DC who has never called a play in the NFL.  I realize sacks aren't the only or best metric to evaluate productivity, but its simple and easy.  I would put the over-under sack total for both of those guys at 9 this season.  When this gap is dramatically closed, you will owe me an apology on the board.  😁

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15 hours ago, FloweryStump said:

I actually did.  If you see my previous post in this thread on page 3, I stated he wasn't even a starter in Jax and was a situational player (i.e. pass rusher).  The Rams used him as an every-down LB and the criticism of him is he is not a good run player.  The extra 17% of snaps were likely running downs because that was where Jax thought he was a liability.

Listen, I hope he is the real deal.  But if you take off your fan-colored glasses and look at it objectively, there is some reason for concern.  I hope y'all come back and tell me "I told you so" and I hope I don't do that to y'all.

 

 

It was 27% extra snaps, not 17%. Strong math skills

 

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Saints were trying to bend the rules to get Clowney (surprise) and the league said he’ll naw! 
 

Inside wild backstory behind Saints' last-ditch effort to sign Jadeveon Clowney

Published: Sep 06, 2020 at 03:14 PM
 

Headshot_Author_TOM_PELISSERO_1400x1000

 

Headshot_Author_Ian_Rapoport_1400x1000

Making a final push late Saturday to land star pass rusher Jadeveon Clowney, the Saints got creative, attempting to pull off a move believed to be the first of its kind in NFL history – but couldn't get final clearance from the league.

The Saints were working with another team towards a unique sign-and-trade deal that would've maneuvered around salary cap constraints to bring the free-agent Clowney to New Orleans. But talks fell apart over the NFL's willingness to approve such a deal, and Clowney wound up agreeing to terms with the Tennessee Titans on a one-year deal late Saturday night.

According to sources informed of the talks, the Saints didn't feel they could compete financially with the Titans' offer – $12 million, plus $3 million in incentives – given budgetary reasons. So, they approached another team to find a workaround. (Sources didn't confirm the other team, which hereafter is referred to as "Team X", but it is believed to be the Cleveland Browns, who have ample cap space and a front office known for having a propensity for creativity, most memorably on display in their 2016 trade for quarterback Brock Osweiler.)

The sides discussed parameters of a deal in which Team X would've signed Clowney to a one-year, $15 million contract and paid him a $5 million signing bonus. Then, Team X would've immediately traded Clowney to the Saints, who would've sent Team X a second-round draft pick, as well as a player to take additional salary off New Orleans' books. The Saints would've paid Clowney's remaining $10 million salary.

Just one problem: The teams got word late Saturday the NFL was unlikely to approve such a deal.

Other teams have, in essence, paid cash for picks in the past, including the Browns, who agreed to take on Osweiler's $16 million guaranteed salary in a deal that netted them a second-round draft pick. Last year, the Dolphins paid Ryan Tannehill a $5 million signing bonus on a restructured contract to send him to the Titans. And Clowney himself received a $7 million signing bonus last August from the Texans to help complete a trade to Seattle.

But several executives from different NFL teams said they couldn't recall any other team executing such a deal involving a free agent who was literally only signed to trade him. One exec summed up the interpretation of the league's bylaws as: "Fundamentally, you can't trade cash."

The Saints have long been willing to convert large base salaries to signing bonuses or add voidable years to contracts to free up short-term cap space. But there is great uncertainty about the 2021 salary cap, given a projected multibillion-dollar revenue shortfall related to COVID-19 that could cause it to drop from $198.2 million per club in 2020 to as little as $175 million. Entering this weekend's cuts, the Saints had over $260 million in cap commitments for 2021, according to NFL Players Association records.

The Saints continued to try to rework their offer late into Saturday night, but without help, they couldn't match the Titans' offer. And after 5½ months on the free-agent market, Clowney decided to head to Tennessee instead.

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10 hours ago, FloweryStump said:

Of course its not FULLY dependent on who he is playing with, but I believe you place too little weight on that aspect and too much on Wade Phillips scheme.  PFF analysts, career coaches, and respected scouts will all tell you:  "Its more about the Jimmy's and the Joe's than the X's and the O's".  In other words, scheme plays a role, but not nearly as much as personnel.  I guess you know better though.

That wasn’t my point. At all.

My point was it’s up to Fowler.

8 hours ago, FloweryStump said:

When this gap is dramatically closed, you will owe me an apology on the board.  😁

I wouldn’t hold my breath on that one, my friend. 😊

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On 9/6/2020 at 7:43 AM, Vandy said:

LOL...sure it is. 

Fowler’s job isn’t fully dependent on who or what his DT is or does, you and media vastly overrate that variable and underrate the importance of DC and scheme.....his job is to beat the opposing OT. If he does that and his DC schemes him opportunities, he’ll get his sacks. If he doesn’t, he won’t, no matter who the DT is.

Wade Phillips had more to do with Fowler’s success in gathering sacks last year than Aaron Donald did. But at end of day, Fowler must control what he can control, which is beat the OT.

 

On 9/6/2020 at 11:58 AM, FloweryStump said:

Here is something we can use to test our perspectives during this season.  The production of Fowler vs. Leonard Floyd of the Rams this season.  Two top-10 edge rush picks from the 2016 Draft that have both been labeled as "disappointing".  Fowler's stock improved dramatically last season with 11.5 sacks (for a career total of 27.5), while Floyd started all 16 games last year and had 3 sacks (for a career total of 18.5).  From the perspective of a casual fan, Fowler should blow away Floyd's production this year.  I am saying that gap will reduce DRAMATICALLY due to Floyd playing with Donald this season, and Floyd may even have a higher output than Fowler.  And when it happens, you can't use "scheme" in your argument because they fired Wade Phillips and replaced him with a no-name rookie DC who has never called a play in the NFL.  I realize sacks aren't the only or best metric to evaluate productivity, but its simple and easy.  I would put the over-under sack total for both of those guys at 9 this season.  When this gap is dramatically closed, you will owe me an apology on the board.  😁

Just keeping tabs of our bet:  Leonard Floyd 1.0 sacks; Fowler 0.5.  

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13 hours ago, FloweryStump said:

 

Just keeping tabs of our bet:  Leonard Floyd 1.0 sacks; Fowler 0.5.  

I’ve got so many random bets going on bro, I’m feeling like I’m a ******* bookie not able to keep up with them all. Ironic too in that I don’t gamble my hard earned money on anything!

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22 hours ago, Vandy said:

I’ve got so many random bets going on bro, I’m feeling like I’m a ******* bookie not able to keep up with them all. Ironic too in that I don’t gamble my hard earned money on anything!

I got ours bookmarked! 😂

Saints OL only allowed 1 sack in Week 1, 15 games to go. 🤑

But same, I never bet money on anything other than my one FFL league but this year I got this bet with you and I got a bet with a poster on Carolina Huddle saying we miss the playoffs. LOL

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50 minutes ago, Iron Saint said:

I got ours bookmarked! 😂

Saints OL only allowed 1 sack in Week 1, 15 games to go. 🤑

But same, I never bet money on anything other than my one FFL league but this year I got this bet with you and I got a bet with a poster on Carolina Huddle saying we miss the playoffs. LOL

And Ruiz didn’t even play, right? Ugh, I’m not off to a good start here either!

Remind me....what did we bet again? I think it was maybe a case of vegan

image.jpeg.9454e44fa14312cc1c11252cd9895387.jpeg

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&q=vegan+Pabst+Blue+Ribbon&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOOQUeLSz9U3MC9OTi4yMOJPSi0uUShLTU_MU0hKTS2KkspLLC7JBAmCuAr5eQolGakKBTmJeSWnGDlAOg2zCoxPMSIZAuUYVcabFBqdYuQEcYwN84yLoRKWRZUmaUlQTpFpfHpZOlSVWblBciFMh2l8gdkvRn4nVAf9YuKDcOJd_UI8QyLjG1gYF7GKQ8QCEpOAip1ySlMVgjKTkvLzbrFJMmhNreLao99sznUsyVWxYYJEYV9odIFOzUYAwSFnX_oAAAA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZkYqAzO7rAhVtRN8KHVYoBgUQs9oBKAEwFnoECBEQCA&biw=375&bih=749#

 

😎

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8 minutes ago, Vandy said:

And Ruiz didn’t even play, right? Ugh, I’m not off to a good start here either!

Remind me....what did we bet? I think it was maybe a case of 

image.jpeg.9454e44fa14312cc1c11252cd9895387.jpeg

😎

That he did not, and hahaha. That’ll happen!

But it was just a $10 bet to charity.

And honestly, during our game I started to sweat a little bit with the pressure Tampa Bay was getting. I go into a bit of a fugue state during the game and it felt like they had about 3-4 sacks and I was like ****. Then after looking at the stats they only had 1 with 3 QB hits so I was confused but relieved. 😅

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On 9/6/2020 at 7:43 AM, Vandy said:

LOL...sure it is. 

Fowler’s job isn’t fully dependent on who or what his DT is or does, you and media vastly overrate that variable and underrate the importance of DC and scheme.....his job is to beat the opposing OT. If he does that and his DC schemes him opportunities, he’ll get his sacks. If he doesn’t, he won’t, no matter who the DT is.

Wade Phillips had more to do with Fowler’s success in gathering sacks last year than Aaron Donald did. But at end of day, Fowler must control what he can control, which is beat the OT.

 

On 9/6/2020 at 11:58 AM, FloweryStump said:

Here is something we can use to test our perspectives during this season.  The production of Fowler vs. Leonard Floyd of the Rams this season.  Two top-10 edge rush picks from the 2016 Draft that have both been labeled as "disappointing".  Fowler's stock improved dramatically last season with 11.5 sacks (for a career total of 27.5), while Floyd started all 16 games last year and had 3 sacks (for a career total of 18.5).  From the perspective of a casual fan, Fowler should blow away Floyd's production this year.  I am saying that gap will reduce DRAMATICALLY due to Floyd playing with Donald this season, and Floyd may even have a higher output than Fowler.  And when it happens, you can't use "scheme" in your argument because they fired Wade Phillips and replaced him with a no-name rookie DC who has never called a play in the NFL.  I realize sacks aren't the only or best metric to evaluate productivity, but its simple and easy.  I would put the over-under sack total for both of those guys at 9 this season.  When this gap is dramatically closed, you will owe me an apology on the board.  😁

Current score on our bet:

Leonard Floyd:  7.0 sacks; Dante Fowler 2.0 sacks

Do you admit defeat yet?  😁

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