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That's that 'married with kids weight' kicking in.

That's not crazy. Any team in hindsight can pick a team of perennial pro bowlers lol. 

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2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Nope. Like I said, I think people get too caught up in that argument. I’m saying...much like Hooper....he’s a lot better than you guys credit him being for the pats. 

It's hard to argue Hooper is not a top 10 TE in the league. There are arguments that he's top 5. He would certainly be a great TE in all schemes. I don't think Edelman is in the same echelon. You are right that he gets overlooked a lot though. Always has. 

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8 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Nope. Like I said, I think people get too caught up in that argument. I’m saying...much like Hooper....he’s a lot better than you guys credit him being for the pats. 
 

I mean, Emmitt Smith and Steve Largent weren’t “elite” by some of the definitions I’m seeing thrown around in here.

All I'm concerned with is the top 10 argument idc about all that other nonsense.  Case closed.  Thank you :) 

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10 minutes ago, Lornoth said:

It's hard to argue Hooper is not a top 10 TE in the league. There are arguments that he's top 5. He would certainly be a great TE in all schemes. I don't think Edelman is in the same echelon. You are right that he gets overlooked a lot though. Always has. 

LOL Lo....it’s hard, but now that he’s gotten paid by another team they really try in here to make that argument he’s (Hooper) not. 

I agree Edelman is more a beneficiary of Patriots system ..Welker paved that path for him. But like you, I’m a (closet) fan of his too.

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3 minutes ago, Lornoth said:

It's hard to argue Hooper is not a top 10 TE in the league. There are arguments that he's top 5. He would certainly be a great TE in all schemes. I don't think Edelman is in the same echelon. You are right that he gets overlooked a lot though. Always has. 

Sometimes it’s just silly to try and peg players into a numerical ranking.  Hooper, like JE, is a very, very good player.  
 

Do I think JE is better than Mike Evans or Stefon Diggs?  Not really.  But in the playoffs I’ll take JE over either.  If I need a big catch in the 4th quarter, I’ll take JE over all but a handful of ppl on the planet

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1 minute ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Sometimes it’s just silly to try and peg players into a numerical ranking.  Hooper, like JE, is a very, very good player.  
 

Do I think JE is better than Mike Evans or Stefon Diggs?  Not really.  But in the playoffs I’ll take JE over either.  If I need a big catch in the 4th quarter, I’ll take JE over all but a handful of ppl on the planet

I may be biased here, but Diggs has some of my favourite playoff catches :ninja:

3 minutes ago, Vandy said:

LOL Lo....it’s hard, but now that he’s gotten paid they really try in here to make that argument he’s (Hooper) not. 

I agree Edelman is more a beneficiary of Patriots system ..Welker paved the way for him. 

People really take other people's paychecks to heart, don't they? Same with Vic, he was average-above average before and after his 5th year option, but people went from at least ambivalent towards him to hating his guts. Oh well.

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13 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

You haven't said any "facts".

Edelman is not Elite. He is a good player.  Edelman is a slot receiver only.  He can't play outside.  He can't dominate one-on-one.  There are plenty of receivers I'd take over Edeleman, so I won't waste my time to list them. 

Stats are important, yes, but so are your eyes.    

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1 minute ago, Slimm said:

Edelman is not Elite. He is a good player.  Edelman is a slot receiver only.  He can't play outside.  He can't dominate one-on-one.  There are plenty of receivers I'd take over Edeleman, so I won't waste my time to list them. 

Stats are important, yes, but so are your eyes.    

Your eyes aren't "facts". If you can catch a 100 balls in the NFL, when everybody knows you are the guy, you are elite.

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2 hours ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

I actually don’t remember this discussion but that’s only because I’ve had countless conversations with people on Hooper. My stance on him (and it’s never changed) was that I did NOT want to bring him back but I was predicting the team was going to bring him back. The reasoning was because that’s the culture of this franchise. We pay everyone. Literally. We gave contracts to Ricardo Allen, Robert Alford, Desmond Trufant, gave Vic an undeserved 5th year option, and made Freeman the highest paid back (at the time) even though Coleman was right there. It’s like our mentality was fear of losing guys would make us worse. Almost like it gave an impression that guys are irreplaceable...

So, it made sense to me that Hooper was going to get paaaaid and by us. I was shocked when he hit the open market and happy. Because we keep paying above average guys elite money. And yes, Hooper is an above average guy. I’m happy for him. He has earned EVERY single penny that Cleveland just gave him. But I want the team to make smart decisions, not loyal ones. 

I still don’t get the Hooper Hurst production thing.If I’m honest I don’t want Hurst to produce like that we got Ridley back there’s only one ball Julio and Gurley are the other 2.Hat I would like to see from Hoopers replacement is big plays and him sealing the edge to allow Gurley to do damage.

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41 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Peeps get way too caught up in these elite vs good player debates. They are swayed more by how big/fast/strong a player is than they are about a player’s footwork, hand-eye coordination, route running,  finding open spaces, reliability, etc. ....which is what Edelman brought to pats. 
 

Someone mentioned Odell beckham, he hasn’t even been a Top 20 receiver in what, 3 years? 

Does any other player in league make that tipped ball catch against us in SB51?  

That's a weird statement to me in a discussion about how most folks think Edelman isn't top 10. Edelman is very good and perfect for that system. We've seen players with similar physical abilities and statures have success in that system and he took it to the next level.

 

I really hate the good vs elite discussion because it has and will always get dumb because it's so subjective, but Edelman is not a top ten receiver in the league and that's a take from WAY out there.

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11 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

I still don’t get the Hooper Hurst production thing.If I’m honest I don’t want Hurst to produce like that we got Ridley back there’s only one ball Julio and Gurley are the other 2.Hat I would like to see from Hoopers replacement is big plays and him sealing the edge to allow Gurley to do damage.

Great point

If Hurst get 800-1,000 yards and 80 catches, more than likely something is off and the offense is sputtering

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Just now, Jdrizzle said:

Actually I have to take something back.....Edelman doesn't hold a candle to Wes Welker.

Yup.

Edelman is a poor man's Welker.

Also the end all to this debate is how many times do we hear about how "Tom Brady has no weapons", "The Patriots always do well with no weapons and no name players".  If Edelman was a top 10 wr in the league (lol), that narrative wouldn't exist.  But it does.  Because he is just another in a long line of scrappy reception magnet slot wr's in dink and dunk offenses.  To use receptions as a qualifier of a receiver is hilarious on it's own.  Based on that the 2nd best WR last year was Christian McCaffrey lol.

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12 minutes ago, Jdrizzle said:

That's a weird statement to me in a discussion about how most folks think Edelman isn't top 10. Edelman is very good and perfect for that system. We've seen players with similar physical abilities and statures have success in that system and he took it to the next level.

 

I really hate the good vs elite discussion because it has and will always get dumb because it's so subjective, but Edelman is not a top ten receiver in the league and that's a take from WAY out there.

Weird how?

And I Never said he was. But folks who keep claiming saying Bechman are off as well, IMO.

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35 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Sometimes it’s just silly to try and peg players into a numerical ranking. 

  

47 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I think it’s fair to say Edelman has been a top 12 WR since 2013.  

A land of contrasts.  I'll give you +1 for not just copying and pasting some rando internet article tho!

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3 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Weird how?

And I Never said he was. But folks who keep saying Bechman is are off as well, IMO.

You got the weird edit in after I quoted you but I don't want to keep derailing this thread so just suffice it to say Odells off years are better than most of Edelmans ten year career and the majority of the discussion was about how Edelman isn't a top ten receiver in the league and how homie needs to pick up his mic🤣

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