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i agree.... But to be fair when we had the established healthy talent.... Our OLine looked good..... Last year the Linstrom  got hurt..... McGary had heart surgey as a rookie and had a rookie type yea

I thought Baldy was DQ 😂

11 minutes ago, Dirtybird56 said:

Can Dirk/our Oline coach teach the OZ? Seems like a huge component to the stretch is the quality of the teaching moreso than the actual linemen themselves. Though we do have some quality linemen across the board

Chris Morgan has a background in OZ with Shanny

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1 hour ago, kiwifalcon said:

Sure hope so.

Got to see a real commitment to actually running this play.

Even if it gets rough stick with it.

Exactly!  Koetter must realize everyone is going to be looking for this and trying to wall it off but.....he has to remain committed and scheme around this concept to help it open up.  Once it starts working it is as the man stated a “moving sidewalk”. Will DK be able to remain committed thru tough stretches????

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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

Chris Morgan needs to get his "ish" together and form a cohesive O-Line unit.  

i agree.... But to be fair when we had the established healthy talent.... Our OLine looked good..... Last year the Linstrom  got hurt..... McGary had heart surgey as a rookie and had a rookie type year..... Carpenter was just straight up bad.

Im still frustrated that Matt Gono never got his chance when chris morgan has rapidly said Matt Gono will be a player.. He just need a opportunity.

 

But right now he has the pieces.... He needs to put this **** together

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1 hour ago, BUBBASBEANS said:

Exactly!  Koetter must realize everyone is going to be looking for this and trying to wall it off but.....he has to remain committed and scheme around this concept to help it open up.  Once it starts working it is as the man stated a “moving sidewalk”. Will DK be able to remain committed thru tough stretches????

It opens up so much more rollouts misdirection play action.

Once they execute it the offense will be deadly.

Just need the OC to commit to it which is really the issue.

I got no issues with Morgan outside of getting the group to play as a group.

Its the OC whose the issue.

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1 hour ago, kiwifalcon said:

It opens up so much more rollouts misdirection play action.

Once they execute it the offense will be deadly.

Just need the OC to commit to it which is really the issue.

I got no issues with Morgan outside of getting the group to play as a group.

Its the OC whose the issue.

It’ll be the OL that makes it happen...that was more the problem than DK last yr

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9 hours ago, atljbo said:

i agree.... But to be fair when we had the established healthy talent.... Our OLine looked good..... Last year the Linstrom  got hurt..... McGary had heart surgey as a rookie and had a rookie type year..... Carpenter was just straight up bad.

Im still frustrated that Matt Gono never got his chance when chris morgan has rapidly said Matt Gono will be a player.. He just need a opportunity.

 

But right now he has the pieces.... He needs to put this **** together

This is why i question his ability as an oline coach. Under him, we need 1st round picks and elite talent at every position just to be good. Yet been garland and others have filled in seamlessly for their injured line in San Fran and didn't miss a beat.

That's the sign of a good/great coach to me. Injuries are going to happen in the NFL but we keep granting this man excuses as to why this unit keeps underperformed. A good or great coach get their guys to usually over achieve. Heck look at the job Raheem did mid season with no trufant, what we thought was a regressed Oliver and Rico/kazee at safety. Kyle Shanahan injury or not continue to churn out overachieving offensive units even with an injured oline, back up qb, no receivers etc. One goes down and there isn't much drop off. Same with belicheck and Harbaugh in Baltimore.

I would have fired him by now Chris Morgan by now. Our cast-offs are outperforming our guys with Kyle. They aren't missing blocks or anything but our line filled with first round picks keep having blown assignments. Something is wrong!

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16 minutes ago, ShadyRef said:

This is why i question his ability as an oline coach. Under him, we need 1st round picks and elite talent at every position just to be good. Yet been garland and others have filled in seamlessly for their injured line in San Fran and didn't miss a beat.

That's the sign of a good/great coach to me. Injuries are going to happen in the NFL but we keep granting this man excuses as to why this unit keeps underperformed. A good or great coach get their guys to usually over achieve. Heck look at the job Raheem did mid season with no trufant, what we thought was a regressed Oliver and Rico/kazee at safety. Kyle Shanahan injury or not continue to churn out overachieving offensive units even with an injured oline, back up qb, no receivers etc. One goes down and there isn't much drop off. Same with belicheck and Harbaugh in Baltimore.

I would have fired him by now Chris Morgan by now. Our cast-offs are outperforming our guys with Kyle. They aren't missing blocks or anything but our line filled with first round picks keep having blown assignments. Something is wrong!

San Fran schemed and protected their offensive linemen by running the ball. If Ben had to pass protect a ton, he would not have looked as good. Same with Brunskill. 

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1 hour ago, ShadyRef said:

This is why i question his ability as an oline coach. Under him, we need 1st round picks and elite talent at every position just to be good. Yet been garland and others have filled in seamlessly for their injured line in San Fran and didn't miss a beat.

That's the sign of a good/great coach to me. Injuries are going to happen in the NFL but we keep granting this man excuses as to why this unit keeps underperformed. A good or great coach get their guys to usually over achieve. Heck look at the job Raheem did mid season with no trufant, what we thought was a regressed Oliver and Rico/kazee at safety. Kyle Shanahan injury or not continue to churn out overachieving offensive units even with an injured oline, back up qb, no receivers etc. One goes down and there isn't much drop off. Same with belicheck and Harbaugh in Baltimore.

I would have fired him by now Chris Morgan by now. Our cast-offs are outperforming our guys with Kyle. They aren't missing blocks or anything but our line filled with first round picks keep having blown assignments. Something is wrong!

If we are going to go in depth into it.... I think that's more shanny system....  His system and his play calling is OLINE friendly... That's why I can't stand the guy but he is a genius... He calls run plays and pass plays out the same sets... So a pass play can look like a run play set and a run play out a normal pass play looking set...  He runs reverse and screens...

He keeps Defenses off balance so teams can rarely just T off on the QB.

 

So a lot of it has to do with playcalling.

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11 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

It opens up so much more rollouts misdirection play action.

Once they execute it the offense will be deadly.

Just need the OC to commit to it which is really the issue.

I got no issues with Morgan outside of getting the group to play as a group.

Its the OC whose the issue.

Agreed!  Everyone was in awe of KS but the system (which is dependent upon “the threat of and eventual success outside”  from associated commitment and execution) really feeds itself once it’s rolling and that is the beauty which makes the OC a genius is what it opens up.  As you said, staying committed and then understanding how to take advantage of the many opportunities in a way that keeps opponents on their heels is the real key.  I know we’re all praying he can/will.  If DQ is a HC, he will lay down clear expectations and make swift changes if this edict isn’t followed from get go.  I think OL will be an asset in this system (Lindstrom, McGarity, Mathews and Boss Hoss at C).  

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31 minutes ago, atljbo said:

If we are going to go in depth into it.... I think that's more shanny system....  His system and his play calling is OLINE friendly... That's why I can't stand the guy but he is a genius... He calls run plays and pass plays out the same sets... So a pass play can look like a run play set and a run play out a normal pass play looking set...  He runs reverse and screens...

He keeps Defenses off balance so teams can rarely just T off on the QB.

 

So a lot of it has to do with playcalling.

We seem to be having that problem very often with hiring average or below average coaches on the offensive side of the ball despite allocating majority of our cap space to it during Quinn's tenure. I'm still angry we didn't retain any of Kyle's guys after he left. Quinn mucked up there. I don't know why TD or blank didn't step in to smack him upside his head before hiring Sark.

I have no faith in Dirk. I didn't during his first stint here and I still don't now. I just need him to do enough against playoff caliber defenses and hope our usually under resourced (before Dante Fowler happened) to overachieve this year in to top 5 minimum top 10 again but this time from start to finish. 

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18 minutes ago, BUBBASBEANS said:

Agreed!  Everyone was in awe of KS but the system (which is dependent upon “the threat of and eventual success outside”  from associated commitment and execution) really feeds itself once it’s rolling and that is the beauty which makes the OC a genius is what it opens up.  As you said, staying committed and then understanding how to take advantage of the many opportunities in a way that keeps opponents on their heels is the real key.  I know we’re all praying he can/will.  If DQ is a HC, he will lay down clear expectations and make swift changes if this edict isn’t followed from get go.  I think OL will be an asset in this system (Lindstrom, McGarity, Mathews and Boss Hoss at C).  

That would mean taking audibles away from Matt. According to this board, they want Matt to call the plays instead. Kyle doesn't allow his qbs to audible because the percentage of run plays will decline. It was evident last year when Matt checked out of them with those run pass option plays. This is something Dirk will have to enforce this season.  I really hope he is studying san Frans plays during this lockdown. He needs to literally steal every run play they ran last year. 

Anyways, we can only hope. I just don't know why our guys always have blown assignments in the run game but thrived in executing blocks at a high rate when Kyle was here. What does that say about Chris Morgan's ability?

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1 hour ago, Snafu said:

It's a Shanny staple. The system he runs and the threat of his run game and play action passing game helps protect the O-line.

I don't understand it to the level of Vandy Vel PMF KOG and the rest of our geniuses on the board. I remember how in one of PMF threads he talks about how well Kyle's mind works by integrating so many parts in to every play design to use as chess pieces for home run plays later during the game. That depth and creativity isn't there with Dirk. It flashes at times but it requires everything to be so perfect at every position to get average results while kyle helps his unit out with so many disguises. 

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1 hour ago, ShadyRef said:

We seem to be having that problem very often with hiring average or below average coaches on the offensive side of the ball despite allocating majority of our cap space to it during Quinn's tenure. I'm still angry we didn't retain any of Kyle's guys after he left. Quinn mucked up there. I don't know why TD or blank didn't step in to smack him upside his head before hiring Sark.

I have no faith in Dirk. I didn't during his first stint here and I still don't now. I just need him to do enough against playoff caliber defenses and hope our usually under resourced (before Dante Fowler happened) to overachieve this year in to top 5 minimum top 10 again but this time from start to finish. 

I know this will not go along with the majority but i dont think  Dirk is a bad OC...Its just after having shanny you can see the difference between the Elite play callers that makes the game easier for the QB, OLine, RB, TE, and WR and the good to OK OCs that can score points but as a fan you can see the flaws big time.

 

Thats why im hoping a good to go Gurley will help Dirk with his problem..... The run game andddd scoring within the 20.... Gurley is a big back that can and will help in the 3rd and short game and dude is going to give you 10+ TDs.

 Dude had 14 TDs last year

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2 hours ago, atljbo said:

If we are going to go in depth into it.... I think that's more shanny system....  His system and his play calling is OLINE friendly... That's why I can't stand the guy but he is a genius... He calls run plays and pass plays out the same sets... So a pass play can look like a run play set and a run play out a normal pass play looking set...  He runs reverse and screens...

He keeps Defenses off balance so teams can rarely just T off on the QB.

 

So a lot of it has to do with playcalling.

it's hard to believe EVERY OC doesn't make the run and pass plays look the same the way Shanahan does - to me, that just makes too much sense not to do it.   These DCs and smart Linebackers and Safeties watch enough film to know what play is coming otherwise.

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10 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

it's hard to believe EVERY OC doesn't make the run and pass plays look the same the way Shanahan does - to me, that just makes too much sense not to do it.   These DCs and smart Linebackers and Safeties watch enough film to know what play is coming otherwise.

I’m guessing a big part of the reason may be that some OC’s like certain personnel groups more than other. Also some prefer shotgun opposed to having their QB under center. 
 

Aaron Freeman has a podcast talking about how much Koetter utilized shotgun and how that didn’t help the run game much. 
 

but I found something contrary to that when I was doing some research when Koetter was brought back. Short yardage plays seemed more effective and successful out of the shotgun.  I’ll look for that link and edit this post when I find it  

Found it. 
 

https://predictivefootball.com/running-from-shotgun-formation-works-even-in-short-yardage/

Edited by NWFALCON
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28 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

it's hard to believe EVERY OC doesn't make the run and pass plays look the same the way Shanahan does - to me, that just makes too much sense not to do it.   These DCs and smart Linebackers and Safeties watch enough film to know what play is coming otherwise.

i know what you mean but its just like life.... Some ppl have the fill for certain things they do... a Natural gift... With music some ppl have the ear and with art some ppl has the eye for it... Doesnt mean others are not good at at but some are just special.

 

Ive seen Shanny set up a Defense.... Ran on a certain formation to the right.... Then on a important 3rd down in that same formation he does a bootleg to the left and has Kittle wide *** open... He just have a feel for the game... Reading the Defense... When to call what on certain downs..... Keeping D's off balance

 

Giving our D some props... Some on here over look it but thats why i was so impressed with our D.... The week before our game the 49ers  scored 48 vs the saints and the week after us they scored 34 points vs the Rams.

 

Then i hear ppl say well that was a trap game... They had a slip up (but shanny told them that whole week about our team) ... But they didnt have a slip up when they bust 3 on the Cardinals or 41 on the bengals or 31 on the browns

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