Jamal Adams

[k-train]

14 hours ago, trubirdfan4life said:

This team with high end contracts can't afford to give up that much draft capital.  Obviously, all 32 NFL owners and GMs feel the same way. Its just dumb to give up a 1st and 3rd for a guy who you are going to have to sign to a big deal in order to justify giving up the picks. This team doesn't have the money or team depth to pay another big contract or give up picks. You seem to miss the point of the draft. What you choose to do "in a heartbeat", zero GMs agree.  

I'm fairly sure we only catch wind of a small percentage of the chatter that goes on between teams when it's actually taking place. So, for all any of us know, the Jets have had an offer like that but are still holding out just in case they can get something even better... or a team could be waiting until they get June 1st cap relief to be able to do a new deal w/ Adams so the trade doesn't fall through. On top of that, it's only become sorta feasible for teams to get guys in for physicals in like the past 72 hours or so. That could have an effect on things to some degree as well.

I mean honestly, neither you nor I have any idea.

I fully get your point of having guys on rookie deals to help ease the cap pressures of the big contracts we have right now, and I largely agree. However, the thing about that is that you're banking on those draft picks actually panning out. What's to say your 1st rounder doesn't just turn into another Beasley, or Takk, or Neal? There are decent odds you could end up with another one of these guys who seem to have the talent, but just can't consistently get results on the field due to lack of effort, health issues, immaturity, or whatever. Just having a lower cap number isn't gonna cut it if the dude busts. Even if that dude is serviceable, is he gonna be one of the best in the NFL at his position like Adams? Unlikely.

As for tacking on a 3rd in the hypothetical deal... TD has been abysmal with picking in the 3rd. So the value of that pick... if we assume TD is still here next year making the picks... isn't actually all that high. Seriously, you can skim through my post history here & tell I'm the farthest thing from a TD hater; quite the contrary actually. But the truth is he's almost never hit on those picks. He either takes a dude that is off the team within few years after making minimal impact, or he uses the pick to trade up in the 2nd or back into the late 1st.

As for the finances, the money can always be found if the player's worth it. I mean, nobody thought we were gonna be able to get Fowler based on the initial reports of just how dire the cap situation was heading in to free agency. Yet, we just keep adding pieces.

So how do we pay another big contract? Well, both Neal & Kazee are free agents after this season. Rico has a nearly $9M cap hit next year, which will be the final year of his deal... so minimal dead money to cut him loose after this year. Take the money you save from cutting Rico, plus any money you'd have to spend to bring back either Neal or Kazee, and put all that toward paying Adams on a deal that is backloaded. Draft someone in the 2nd to play the other safety spot (or be the 3rd safety/backup if Hawkins shows enough promise this year to take on a bigger role in 2021). 

You then have at least one elite player at each level of the D.

Now considering the Falcons hitched their wagon to Neal this year w/ the 5th year option, it's pretty unlikely they'd make a move like this, but if the circumstances were a little bit different, I really don't think it'd be that crazy.

[Ezekiel 25:17]

On 5/22/2020 at 10:45 PM, EZfalcons said:

He is a 1st rounder so it is intriguing to dimitroff 

TBF, I am sure 1st rounders are at least intriguing to most other GM’s as well. 
 

But I get the shots fired! 

[trubirdfan4life]

17 hours ago, k-train said:

I'm fairly sure we only catch wind of a small percentage of the chatter that goes on between teams when it's actually taking place. So, for all any of us know, the Jets have had an offer like that but are still holding out just in case they can get something even better... or a team could be waiting until they get June 1st cap relief to be able to do a new deal w/ Adams so the trade doesn't fall through. On top of that, it's only become sorta feasible for teams to get guys in for physicals in like the past 72 hours or so. That could have an effect on things to some degree as well.

I mean honestly, neither you nor I have any idea.

I fully get your point of having guys on rookie deals to help ease the cap pressures of the big contracts we have right now, and I largely agree. However, the thing about that is that you're banking on those draft picks actually panning out. What's to say your 1st rounder doesn't just turn into another Beasley, or Takk, or Neal? There are decent odds you could end up with another one of these guys who seem to have the talent, but just can't consistently get results on the field due to lack of effort, health issues, immaturity, or whatever. Just having a lower cap number isn't gonna cut it if the dude busts. Even if that dude is serviceable, is he gonna be one of the best in the NFL at his position like Adams? Unlikely.

As for tacking on a 3rd in the hypothetical deal... TD has been abysmal with picking in the 3rd. So the value of that pick... if we assume TD is still here next year making the picks... isn't actually all that high. Seriously, you can skim through my post history here & tell I'm the farthest thing from a TD hater; quite the contrary actually. But the truth is he's almost never hit on those picks. He either takes a dude that is off the team within few years after making minimal impact, or he uses the pick to trade up in the 2nd or back into the late 1st.

As for the finances, the money can always be found if the player's worth it. I mean, nobody thought we were gonna be able to get Fowler based on the initial reports of just how dire the cap situation was heading in to free agency. Yet, we just keep adding pieces.

So how do we pay another big contract? Well, both Neal & Kazee are free agents after this season. Rico has a nearly $9M cap hit next year, which will be the final year of his deal... so minimal dead money to cut him loose after this year. Take the money you save from cutting Rico, plus any money you'd have to spend to bring back either Neal or Kazee, and put all that toward paying Adams on a deal that is backloaded. Draft someone in the 2nd to play the other safety spot (or be the 3rd safety/backup if Hawkins shows enough promise this year to take on a bigger role in 2021). 

You then have at least one elite player at each level of the D.

Now considering the Falcons hitched their wagon to Neal this year w/ the 5th year option, it's pretty unlikely they'd make a move like this, but if the circumstances were a little bit different, I really don't think it'd be that crazy.

You say its hypothetical,  except its simply facts that no GM in the NFL has taken the bait on this deal.  That is the fact. You come up with hypocritical scenarios about waiting, and all this....until it happens, its not happening.  Teams don't give up that type draft capital so easily these days. The value of a 3rd round pick far exceeds its cost. Thats why teams dont give up multiple draft picks for disgruntled players on expiring contracts with big money aspirations.  It never works out. You say that Dimitroff has a bad record of 3rd round picks.....like that actually matters at all...lol 

Your idea of Tom Dimitroff......" Since I can't seem to make 3rd round picks into stars, lets just give it away and have to pay a veteran superstar salary at a position that hasn't been a problem other than health" The day you have that rationale,  is the day you are fired as GM. 

We have no money. Ricardo allen is making 7mil this year and 8mil next year. This guy is going to want to be the highest paid or top 3 paid safety in the league. This team can't afford that. Its just dumb to give away draft capital AND have to pay a ridiculous salary for a position that doesn't need to be addressed until next year or maybe not even addressed at all. 

Why do that? We don't even have 3 srarting linebackers on this team. We have no real veteran corners on this team. We have 3 starting safeties with a rookie draft pick and free agent 1st round pick backing them up. Why give up a 1st and 3rd for a guy we can't sign at a position that hasn't been a problem.

[k-train]

4 hours ago, trubirdfan4life said:

You say its hypothetical,  except its simply facts that no GM in the NFL has taken the bait on this deal.  That is the fact. You come up with hypocritical scenarios about waiting, and all this....until it happens, its not happening.  Teams don't give up that type draft capital so easily these days. The value of a 3rd round pick far exceeds its cost. Thats why teams dont give up multiple draft picks for disgruntled players on expiring contracts with big money aspirations.  It never works out. You say that Dimitroff has a bad record of 3rd round picks.....like that actually matters at all...lol 

Your idea of Tom Dimitroff......" Since I can't seem to make 3rd round picks into stars, lets just give it away and have to pay a veteran superstar salary at a position that hasn't been a problem other than health" The day you have that rationale,  is the day you are fired as GM. 

We have no money. Ricardo allen is making 7mil this year and 8mil next year. This guy is going to want to be the highest paid or top 3 paid safety in the league. This team can't afford that. Its just dumb to give away draft capital AND have to pay a ridiculous salary for a position that doesn't need to be addressed until next year or maybe not even addressed at all. 

Why do that? We don't even have 3 srarting linebackers on this team. We have no real veteran corners on this team. We have 3 starting safeties with a rookie draft pick and free agent 1st round pick backing them up. Why give up a 1st and 3rd for a guy we can't sign at a position that hasn't been a problem.

The only fact is that to this point, the Jets have not agreed to trade him. Again, Adams not being traded yet has nothing to do with whether or not teams made offers.

Per CBS: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jamal-adams-trade-rumors-latest-updates-and-reports-potential-landing-spots-for-pro-bowl-jets-safety/

"Who else could try to trade for Adams?

Speculated as a potential draft-day trade chip, Adams has already drawn inquiries from "more than half the teams in the league," per Cimini."

As they also point out in the article, the Jets don't WANT to trade him, but would be WILLING to if things don't get worked out between them and Adams & the compensation was significant enough. They have all the leverage, since they potentially hold Adams' right until 2022 if he played out his current contract, they pick up his 5th year options, and then use the franchise tag the following year. So they can hold out for whatever they want the asking price to be.

As noted in the article, the price for a similar player in Jalen Ramsey was two 1sts & a 4th... so it's not absurd to imagine the Jets are actually asking for more than even 1st & 3rd... and that could be why nobody has agreed yet. Furthermore, the idea that Ramsey was traded for such high draft capital kinda throws your whole "no GM would even do something so dumb" argument right out the window.

Then there's also the point about the Jets not allowing Adams' camp to seek the trade.

Basically, the Jets are in total control of the situation, and the fact they aren't necessarily motivated to move him ASAP likely has more to do with why a deal hasn't gone down yet... and may not go down at all... than anything else.

 

[trubirdfan4life]

7 hours ago, k-train said:

The only fact is that to this point, the Jets have not agreed to trade him. Again, Adams not being traded yet has nothing to do with whether or not teams made offers.

Per CBS: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jamal-adams-trade-rumors-latest-updates-and-reports-potential-landing-spots-for-pro-bowl-jets-safety/

"Who else could try to trade for Adams?

Speculated as a potential draft-day trade chip, Adams has already drawn inquiries from "more than half the teams in the league," per Cimini."

As they also point out in the article, the Jets don't WANT to trade him, but would be WILLING to if things don't get worked out between them and Adams & the compensation was significant enough. They have all the leverage, since they potentially hold Adams' right until 2022 if he played out his current contract, they pick up his 5th year options, and then use the franchise tag the following year. So they can hold out for whatever they want the asking price to be.

As noted in the article, the price for a similar player in Jalen Ramsey was two 1sts & a 4th... so it's not absurd to imagine the Jets are actually asking for more than even 1st & 3rd... and that could be why nobody has agreed yet. Furthermore, the idea that Ramsey was traded for such high draft capital kinda throws your whole "no GM would even do something so dumb" argument right out the window.

Then there's also the point about the Jets not allowing Adams' camp to seek the trade.

Basically, the Jets are in total control of the situation, and the fact they aren't necessarily motivated to move him ASAP likely has more to do with why a deal hasn't gone down yet... and may not go down at all... than anything else.

 

Yep....how has that helped the rams? Not really a glowing endorsement.  Obviously it happens.  The Bucs traded picks for a coach, anything can happen.  But it hasn't.....sure teams have enquired, I'm sure every team has, its called due diligence.  When the falcons give up a 1st and 3rd for a guy they can't afford to sign to a 13 mil per year contract,  then get back to me. Other than that?  Its just madden talk.  I could see Miami or Jacksonville making a move like that. Its going to be a team with the qb on a rookie deal. 

[federicofalcon2]

On 5/23/2020 at 1:47 PM, k-train said:

Just spitballing; here to gauge what would or wouldn't be considered too high of a price.

Would you trade:

 Falcons 2021 1st & 3rd (Hooper comp pick?)
Calvin Ridley

for

Jets' 2021 2nd
Jamal Adams

We probably won’t be getting a pick for Hooper

[g-dawg]

9 hours ago, k-train said:

The only fact is that to this point, the Jets have not agreed to trade him. Again, Adams not being traded yet has nothing to do with whether or not teams made offers.

Per CBS: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jamal-adams-trade-rumors-latest-updates-and-reports-potential-landing-spots-for-pro-bowl-jets-safety/

"Who else could try to trade for Adams?

Speculated as a potential draft-day trade chip, Adams has already drawn inquiries from "more than half the teams in the league," per Cimini."

As they also point out in the article, the Jets don't WANT to trade him, but would be WILLING to if things don't get worked out between them and Adams & the compensation was significant enough. They have all the leverage, since they potentially hold Adams' right until 2022 if he played out his current contract, they pick up his 5th year options, and then use the franchise tag the following year. So they can hold out for whatever they want the asking price to be.

As noted in the article, the price for a similar player in Jalen Ramsey was two 1sts & a 4th... so it's not absurd to imagine the Jets are actually asking for more than even 1st & 3rd... and that could be why nobody has agreed yet. Furthermore, the idea that Ramsey was traded for such high draft capital kinda throws your whole "no GM would even do something so dumb" argument right out the window.

Then there's also the point about the Jets not allowing Adams' camp to seek the trade.

Basically, the Jets are in total control of the situation, and the fact they aren't necessarily motivated to move him ASAP likely has more to do with why a deal hasn't gone down yet... and may not go down at all... than anything else.

 

you still miss the point that there is no room for another large contract on this team.    Falcons had to basically trade Austin Hooper's money for Dante Fowler's money and replaced the TE position w/ traded draft capital they got for Sanu - Falcons were very lucky that Belicheck did that stupid trade for Sanu.

There isn't any room at the inn w/o robbing even more from the future than Falcons already have done.

Falcons need cheap players - lots of'em.

[k-train]

44 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

you still miss the point that there is no room for another large contract on this team.    Falcons had to basically trade Austin Hooper's money for Dante Fowler's money and replaced the TE position w/ traded draft capital they got for Sanu - Falcons were very lucky that Belicheck did that stupid trade for Sanu.

There isn't any room at the inn w/o robbing even more from the future than Falcons already have done.

Falcons need cheap players - lots of'em.

No, I actually don't miss that point at all & I'm pretty sure I covered it when I said the following earlier in this thread:

"I fully get your point of having guys on rookie deals to help ease the cap pressures of the big contracts we have right now, and I largely agree. However, the thing about that is that you're banking on those draft picks actually panning out. What's to say your 1st rounder doesn't just turn into another Beasley, or Takk, or Neal? There are decent odds you could end up with another one of these guys who seem to have the talent, but just can't consistently get results on the field due to lack of effort, health issues, immaturity, or whatever. Just having a lower cap number isn't gonna cut it if the dude busts. Even if that dude is serviceable, is he gonna be one of the best in the NFL at his position like Adams? Unlikely."

They don't give out Lombardis for being cheap, they give em out for being good.

[k-train]

1 hour ago, federicofalcon2 said:

We probably won’t be getting a pick for Hooper

Yeah, you're probably right since the Fowler signing likely cancels it out.

[federicofalcon2]

11 hours ago, k-train said:

Yeah, you're probably right since the Fowler signing likely cancels it out.

Here is the most recent table I see updated accordingly by projections. 

[Ergo Proxy]

TATF every time it wants a player:

[Ergo Proxy]

10 hours ago, federicofalcon2 said:

Here is the most recent table I see updated accordingly by projections. 

Ya, if Beasley reaches his sack incentives then he becomes a 4th round comp pick. Otherwise, it appears it is fairly accurate as a projection.

[Roanoke Falcon]

On 5/22/2020 at 9:51 PM, gtech1 said:

A first-rounder who's also probably the best at his position in the league. 

Didn't he, as a Safety, have more sacks than most of our defensive linemen?

Safties are under-valued and under-appreciated.

Look how Pittsburgh's defense transformed after robbing the Dolphins!

Make the trade.

[Tribal Chief]

Adams doesnt want to go to Atlanta

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-exploring-the-market-jamal-adams-is-fighting-against-for-a-record-breaking-safety/amp/

[1989Fan]

Once Neal has a great season this year, people can move on from the idea of giving multiple first round picks and a record contract to Adams. If Neal can stay healthy (his two injuries were freak, unrelated injuries) I would rather have him than give up a ton (picks and pay) for a guy who doesn’t want to be here. 

[Tribal Chief]

8 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

Once Neal has a great season this year, people can move on from the idea of giving multiple first round picks and a record contract to Adams. If Neal can stay healthy (his two injuries were freak, unrelated injuries) I would rather have him than give up a ton (picks and pay) for a guy who doesn’t want to be here. 

Shhhhh. "Quinn and TD are in a make or break year. They need to risk everything."

Worst thing I've read on this site in years. 

[slick0ne]

1 hour ago, ya_boi_j said:

Adams doesnt want to go to Atlanta

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-exploring-the-market-jamal-adams-is-fighting-against-for-a-record-breaking-safety/amp/

Don't know why people are ignoring this fact lol

[Tribal Chief]

2 minutes ago, slick0ne said:

Don't know why people are ignoring this fact lol

You know how it is. "I'm saying it so I want to believe its true" lol. It's cool to discuss possibilities but ya gotta at least pretend to be realistic and consider everything, not just what we would like to see

[Ezekiel 25:17]

On 5/23/2020 at 4:47 PM, k-train said:

Just spitballing; here to gauge what would or wouldn't be considered too high of a price.

Would you trade:

 Falcons 2021 1st & 3rd (Hooper comp pick?)
Calvin Ridley

for

Jets' 2021 2nd
Jamal Adams

That’s not a bad transaction. 

[Tribal Chief]

8 minutes ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

That’s not a bad transaction. 

If Julio and or Gage goes down who replaces the production? Dirk isn't Shanny or McDaniels. Blake and Zach are not that good

[marvinthemartian]

25 minutes ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

That’s not a bad transaction. 

I would NOT make that move

[Ezekiel 25:17]

16 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

If Julio and or Gage goes down who replaces the production? Dirk isn't Shanny or McDaniels. Blake and Zach are not that good

When you make a trade like this, you have to give up something of value for something. 
 

We currently have a solid receivers group and would be ok if we did make a trade like this and would still leave us in the top half of wideout squads in the league. 

As far as if guys got hurt, that’s a part of the game and there aren’t any NFL teams that can handle multiple injuries to the same group and be just as good. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, I like the depth we have but that deal seems fair as it instantly makes out secondary better and cushions the blow of losing a first round with a potential high second coming back. 

[Ezekiel 25:17]

6 minutes ago, marvinthemartian said:

I would NOT make that move

Not saying I would but I would definitely give it consideration. 
 

I personally prefer DL game changers over DBs in todays football’s anyways.

[Tribal Chief]

Just now, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

When you make a trade like this, you have to give up something of value for something. 
 

We currently have a solid receivers group and would be ok if we did make a trade like this and would still leave us in the top half of wideout squads in the league. 

As far as if guys got hurt, that’s a part of the game and there aren’t any NFL teams that can handle multiple injuries to the same group and be just as good. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, I like the depth we have but that deal seems fair as it instantly makes out secondary better and cushions the blow of losing a first round with a potential high second coming back. 

If Julio and or Gage goes down, who replaces them? Simple question

[k-train]

2 hours ago, ya_boi_j said:

Adams doesnt want to go to Atlanta

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-exploring-the-market-jamal-adams-is-fighting-against-for-a-record-breaking-safety/amp/

Where did it say that exactly?