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MayorWest13

Deone Bucannon signed

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6 hours ago, Francis York Morgan said:

Let's be objective for a minute on this. I'll go one by one.

Austin Hooper - replaced with Hayden Hurst. I prefer Hurst, but I understand folks will think it's a downgrade until proven otherwise.

Desmond Trufant - replaced with AJ Terrell. Again, I wanted to replace Tru with someone more physical, but he'll likely not be as good right away.

Devonta Freeman - replaced with Todd Gurley. This is pretty clearly an upgrade, even if Gurley has some injury issues (Free's are arguably worse). 

Vic Beasley - replaced with Dante Fowler, who I like more in every way. 

DeVondre Campbell - replaced with Mykal Walker. I didn't like Campbell, so I'm glad we moved on, but realistically he won't get playtime for a bit.

Mohamed Sanu - Gage showed he can replace the production. He's a good #3 and that's all we need. Not remotely worried about this one. 

Wes Schweitzer - replaced with Hennessy, who I thought was the 2nd best center prospect in the draft. Love this overall. Schweitzer wasn't worth what he got imho.

Adrian Clayborn - replaced with Davidson, who I thought was a 1st round talent. I think Clayborn and Crawford's snaps are going to be split between Davidson and Cominsky, and I like that combo more.

Luke Stocker - tbh I like Graham a ton more. Hated the Stocker signing from the get go. This is addition by subtraction.

Jack Crawford - replaced with Cominsky getting more snaps, who looked better last year anyway.

Kemal Ishmael - replaced with Deon Buccanon, who is flat out better. Ishmael was atrocious last year. Buccanon has been a high level starter in the past and I believe he can be excellent depth at worst.

Ty Sambrailo - Dude was terrible. Gono is better. Addition by subtraction. You really think this dude is more worth mentioning as a loss than any of the other rookies or FAs as gains? Come on man.

Kenjon Barner - only one I agree with. We lost out here. Need more competition at returner and don't trust what we have rn.

Not mentioning guys like Harris and Treadwell since I don't expect anything out of them. FFS dude, most of these guys you're upset at us losing are guys you have nicknames for and called busts. Tryna have your cake and eat it too. Nah.

I think we got better this off-season, especially in terms of attitude of the guys we've added/lost. There are areas I wish we'd done more to address, but for the first time in a while, I can really see what the FO is trying to do. If you don't think we're better, that's fine, but acting like we lost tons of talent and didn't come close to replacing it is some disingenuous BS dude.

Very good post.  What we really lost from not being low cap wise is opportunity cost or ability to get better.

You show very clearly how we are mostly equivalent at each position, which I generally agree with.  Had we had more cap space (or not signed 3 busts on OL last year) we could have been additive.  Kept AC/gotten Fowler and the other guys.  Taken a safety because we didn't have to spend it on a TE if we'd kept Hooper.

If we'd been able to do that, we'd have a similar team to last year/this year plus a FS, another edge rusher, and a vet LG.  Those are the areas the cap hurts you.  Not being able to upgrade the team.  Not being able to get guys to push your bottom tier guys off the team (your 7th and 8th DL  who get snaps here).  Not being able to get the number 1 corner that pushes all your existing corners down to 2,3,4 making them all better.

It's the nature of the beast with the cap in general, but we are feeling it now.  They've done a good job of keeping us the same, but as a 7-9 team, we need to be upgrading.  We gotta hope the 6-2 team of the last 8 games is the team that is reality.

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Before I get truly angry and negative about the Falcons, I will find another team or stop watching.

I don't get some of you who come here to talk about how bad this team is and how poorly the upcoming season will be for us.  When I do not like something of mine, I get rid of it.  But, that is just me.

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8 hours ago, NaGaBoy said:

Before I get truly angry and negative about the Falcons, I will find another team or stop watching.

I don't get some of you who come here to talk about how bad this team is and how poorly the upcoming season will be for us.  When I do not like something of mine, I get rid of it.  But, that is just me.

Preach on, my brother...it’s a never-ending display of:

 

doomed.jpg.de47c97a9d0b62a145be2cd98a98211b.jpg

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14 hours ago, abcranford2 said:

We upgraded 5 of those starters and trufant has been hurt anyways so...

LMAO. Which 5 starters were upgraded? This is how I see it, being objective:

  • Austin Hooper - replaced with Hayden Hurst - downgrade - only on TATF amongst a bunch of Dimi huggers is this an upgrade. And that's because of his blinding speed (he ran a 4.67 40 while Hoop posted a 4.72) :rolleyes:. Not to mention Hoop's 3 cone and shuttle times were better. Hoop was a two time pro bowler getting ready to go to the next level. Hurst hasn't busted a grape in the NFL yet
  • Desmond Trufant - replaced with A.J. Terrell - downgrade - Tru was our #1 corner. A seasoned vet coming off a solid year. Terrell is a rook that’ll be taking NFL lessons on a weekly basis from a slew of top shelf QBs with bad intentions. It will take him a year or more to get to where Tru was
  • Devonta Freeman - replaced with Todd Gurley - upgrade - if he passes his physical. Should be an upgrade in the run game, even though Gurley averaged only 3.8 ypc to Free's 3.6. Will also be an upgrade in the pass blocking dept. But will be a definite downgrade in the pass receiving game
  • Vic Beasley - replaced with Dante Fowler - upgrade - if only in the run game. Might even be an upgrade in pass rush, but that's not guaranteed. Like Beasley, Fowler had only one double digit sack year and that came in a Wade Phillips defense that runs a bunch of zone dogs. Quinn's system ain't remotely close. Morris' either
  • DeVondre Campbell - replaced with Mykal Walker - downgrade - Campbell was our leading tackler for two straight years. He also had decent coverage skills and made some plays last year. I don't expect a rookie to provide that type of production in year one. He will probably look more like Campbell did in his rookie year. Lost
  • Mohamed Sanu - replaced with Russell Gage - downgrade - Sanu was averaging 700 yards and 4 TDs a season with a 70+% catch rate. Gage may get to that level one day but he ain't there yet
  • Wes Schweitzer - replaced with Matt Hennessy - downgrade - Swipester was not a world beater, but he was experienced and always managed to take the jobs of the countless bums Dimi brought in at LG. I don't see a rook upgrading his 2019 play in year one. Especially playing out of position. In fact I wouldn't be shocked if he rides pine most of this year behind Carp, Brown or Gono. Swipe was better than those three bums too

I'd say four of the six back up slots were downgraded too.

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1 hour ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Austin Hooper - replaced with Hayden Hurst - downgrade

You do not know that.  You have not seen Hurst in a starting role and that is due to circumstances, not lack of performance. 

Quote

Desmond Trufant - replaced with A.J. Terrell - downgrade -

You do not know.  Neither does anyone know for certain.  I was disappointed with Trufant's lack of development.  He was good, but the NFL taught him what his weaknesses were, and he did not improve in those areas.  I hope Terrell has more upside.

Quote

Devonta Freeman - replaced with Todd Gurley - upgrade

While I am glad to see you with a little optimism, I cannot possibly understand how you could know this is an upgrade.  Freeman was declining rapidly and needed to retire.  Gurley is a good back to take a flyer on.  But, can Gurley produce enough to help the Falcons.  I can only hope.

Quote

Vic Beasley - replaced with Dante Fowler - upgrade

This time I agree with you.  We have seen enough of Fowler's performance to believe he will be better than Beasley.

Quote

DeVondre Campbell - replaced with Mykal Walker - downgrade -

How can you know this?  Campbell may outperform Walker in 2020, but Walker may prove to be a better player.  Campbell had stopped progressing.  He was good, not bad or great.  But, he was all he was going to be.  We do not know what Walker can be in the NFL.  Can I borrow that crystal ball?

Quote

Mohamed Sanu - replaced with Russell Gage - downgrade -

I disagree.  I do not see Gage as an upgrade or downgrade unless you look at the ages and consider that Gage has more good years in front of him.

Quote

Wes Schweitzer - replaced with Matt Hennessy - downgrade -

Schweitzer was never anything but a backup unless you consider the lone season he showed potential.  It is like he fell off a cliff after that.  He never became even a rotational player.  JAG.  Hennessy is reportedly one of the best centers coming out of college.  We have not seen him in NFL action.  How can you possibly have determined he is a downgrade to the very limited Schweitzer?

Conclusion - Maybe I should not be responding to your post because it is hard to believe you are seriously making these calls this early.  If you are fanning the flames to draw someone out you like to have debates with, I will step aside.  But, this is a forum where posts are available to all of our members.  Everyone has a chance to read this and your post has no legitimate basis.  Why are you flinging this stuff?

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2 hours ago, NaGaBoy said:

You do not know that.  You have not seen Hurst in a starting role and that is due to circumstances, not lack of performance. 

You do not know.  Neither does anyone know for certain.  I was disappointed with Trufant's lack of development.  He was good, but the NFL taught him what his weaknesses were, and he did not improve in those areas.  I hope Terrell has more upside.

While I am glad to see you with a little optimism, I cannot possibly understand how you could know this is an upgrade.  Freeman was declining rapidly and needed to retire.  Gurley is a good back to take a flyer on.  But, can Gurley produce enough to help the Falcons.  I can only hope.

This time I agree with you.  We have seen enough of Fowler's performance to believe he will be better than Beasley.

How can you know this?  Campbell may outperform Walker in 2020, but Walker may prove to be a better player.  Campbell had stopped progressing.  He was good, not bad or great.  But, he was all he was going to be.  We do not know what Walker can be in the NFL.  Can I borrow that crystal ball?

I disagree.  I do not see Gage as an upgrade or downgrade unless you look at the ages and consider that Gage has more good years in front of him.

Schweitzer was never anything but a backup unless you consider the lone season he showed potential.  It is like he fell off a cliff after that.  He never became even a rotational player.  JAG.  Hennessy is reportedly one of the best centers coming out of college.  We have not seen him in NFL action.  How can you possibly have determined he is a downgrade to the very limited Schweitzer?

Conclusion - Maybe I should not be responding to your post because it is hard to believe you are seriously making these calls this early.  If you are fanning the flames to draw someone out you like to have debates with, I will step aside.  But, this is a forum where posts are available to all of our members.  Everyone has a chance to read this and your post has no legitimate basis.  Why are you flinging this stuff?

We'll be able to get a good comparison at the end of the season. I bet it'll be closer to what I scored than the typical pipe dream TATF has every season. The fascination with NCAA rookie saviors on this board is well, concerning. It's a known fact that most rooks get their ases handed to em for at least a year or more. Some never develop into the pipe dream TATF has. Especially in year one. There are so many examples out there.

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4 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

LMAO. Which 5 starters were upgraded? This is how I see it, being objective:

  • Austin Hooper - replaced with Hayden Hurst - downgrade - only on TATF amongst a bunch of Dimi huggers is this an upgrade. And that's because of his blinding speed (he ran a 4.67 40 while Hoop posted a 4.72) :rolleyes:. Not to mention Hoop's 3 cone and shuttle times were better. Hoop was a two time pro bowler getting ready to go to the next level. Hurst hasn't busted a grape in the NFL yet
  • Desmond Trufant - replaced with A.J. Terrell - downgrade - Tru was our #1 corner. A seasoned vet coming off a solid year. Terrell is a rook that’ll be taking NFL lessons on a weekly basis from a slew of top shelf QBs with bad intentions. It will take him a year or more to get to where Tru was
  • Devonta Freeman - replaced with Todd Gurley - upgrade - if he passes his physical. Should be an upgrade in the run game, even though Gurley averaged only 3.8 ypc to Free's 3.6. Will also be an upgrade in the pass blocking dept. But will be a definite downgrade in the pass receiving game
  • Vic Beasley - replaced with Dante Fowler - upgrade - if only in the run game. Might even be an upgrade in pass rush, but that's not guaranteed. Like Beasley, Fowler had only one double digit sack year and that came in a Wade Phillips defense that runs a bunch of zone dogs. Quinn's system ain't remotely close. Morris' either
  • DeVondre Campbell - replaced with Mykal Walker - downgrade - Campbell was our leading tackler for two straight years. He also had decent coverage skills and made some plays last year. I don't expect a rookie to provide that type of production in year one. He will probably look more like Campbell did in his rookie year. Lost
  • Mohamed Sanu - replaced with Russell Gage - downgrade - Sanu was averaging 700 yards and 4 TDs a season with a 70+% catch rate. Gage may get to that level one day but he ain't there yet
  • Wes Schweitzer - replaced with Matt Hennessy - downgrade - Swipester was not a world beater, but he was experienced and always managed to take the jobs of the countless bums Dimi brought in at LG. I don't see a rook upgrading his 2019 play in year one. Especially playing out of position. In fact I wouldn't be shocked if he rides pine most of this year behind Carp, Brown or Gono. Swipe was better than those three bums too

I'd say four of the six back up slots were downgraded too.

Trufant couldn't stay on the field.   And the defense has played better 3 out of the last 4 years without him on the field. 

Same with sanu and the offense.   We looked better once he left the team. 

Never have been impressed with Hooper.  He was a product of volume.  Any starting tight end is going to put up numbers with Matt Ryan playing qb.

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8 minutes ago, abcranford2 said:

Trufant couldn't stay on the field.   And the defense has played better 3 out of the last 4 years without him on the field. 

Same with sanu and the offense.   We looked better once he left the team. 

Never have been impressed with Hooper.  He was a product of volume.  Any starting tight end is going to put up numbers with Matt Ryan playing qb.

Never impressed with Hooper? LOL, some of you guys crack me up.

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1 minute ago, Vandy said:

Never impressed with Hooper? LOL, some of you guys crack me up.

The Julio effect.

Good player but because we’ve replaced him and he put numbers up folks pretending his production can’t be replaced.

Anyways we don’t need a TE who is all world catching the ball give me inline and let’s get this running game going the one that Koetter mentioned in his presser that’s need more balance with the heavy pass game.

 

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On 5/23/2020 at 11:47 AM, NaGaBoy said:

You do not know that.  You have not seen Hurst in a starting role and that is due to circumstances, not lack of performance. 

You do not know.  Neither does anyone know for certain.  I was disappointed with Trufant's lack of development.  He was good, but the NFL taught him what his weaknesses were, and he did not improve in those areas.  I hope Terrell has more upside.

While I am glad to see you with a little optimism, I cannot possibly understand how you could know this is an upgrade.  Freeman was declining rapidly and needed to retire.  Gurley is a good back to take a flyer on.  But, can Gurley produce enough to help the Falcons.  I can only hope.

This time I agree with you.  We have seen enough of Fowler's performance to believe he will be better than Beasley.

How can you know this?  Campbell may outperform Walker in 2020, but Walker may prove to be a better player.  Campbell had stopped progressing.  He was good, not bad or great.  But, he was all he was going to be.  We do not know what Walker can be in the NFL.  Can I borrow that crystal ball?

I disagree.  I do not see Gage as an upgrade or downgrade unless you look at the ages and consider that Gage has more good years in front of him.

Schweitzer was never anything but a backup unless you consider the lone season he showed potential.  It is like he fell off a cliff after that.  He never became even a rotational player.  JAG.  Hennessy is reportedly one of the best centers coming out of college.  We have not seen him in NFL action.  How can you possibly have determined he is a downgrade to the very limited Schweitzer?

Conclusion - Maybe I should not be responding to your post because it is hard to believe you are seriously making these calls this early.  If you are fanning the flames to draw someone out you like to have debates with, I will step aside.  But, this is a forum where posts are available to all of our members.  Everyone has a chance to read this and your post has no legitimate basis.  Why are you flinging this stuff?

Sweitzer never “fell off a cliff”....for a 6th round draft pick, he was excellent value. One of TD’s biggest mistakes as a GM was throwing bad money (money that should have been directed toward defense) at similar talent but injury prone expensive vets Fusco/Carp/Brown trying to replace an already decent Wes. 

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3 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

The Julio effect.

Good player but because we’ve replaced him and he put numbers up folks pretending his production can’t be replaced.

Anyways we don’t need a TE who is all world catching the ball give me inline and let’s get this running game going the one that Koetter mentioned in his presser that’s need more balance with the heavy pass game.

 

I was worried myself until we traded for hurst. Hooper was a daNg good player and important to this offense.

anyways....Not near as concerned now.....if he can stay healthy, I think we’ll be fine there. Hurst does have some injury history though. 

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Just now, Vandy said:

I was worried myself until we traded for hurst. Not near as concerned now.....if he can stay healthy, I think we’ll be fine there.

I gotta see more balance and less predictability from Koetter even when it suggests pass I need to see he has some nuts and calls run even if he gets nothing.I just don’t think he plants the seed to give teams a enough to think about.

With Gurley back there and the threat of double digit TDs I hope that’s the threat he can continue to use.Gurley has that in his favour slowed or not he gets in the end zone.We need that threat badly.

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5 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Sweitzer never “fell off a cliff”....for a 6th round draft pick, he was good value. One of TD’s biggest mistakes as a GM was throwing bad money at similar but injury prone expensive vets Fusco/Carp/Brown trying to replace a decent Wes. 

Yep screwed it and the injuries magnified it.

Surely out of Gono Carpenter Brown and or McCray one of these guys can grab that spot surely we can’t be left in the lurch again surely.

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24 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Yep screwed it and the injuries magnified it.

Surely out of Gono Carpenter Brown and or McCray one of these guys can grab that spot surely we can’t be left in the lurch again surely.

I think/hope it’ll be Hennessy, kiwi.  

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2 hours ago, Vandy said:

Never impressed with Hooper? LOL, some of you guys crack me up.

Laughable bro. Watched some tape last week. I think these guys are totally sleeping on some of dude's attributes. Great route runner. Knew how to get open. Was always where Ryan wanted him. Made several TonyG level catches in major traffic. Decent yac man after the catch. Good in the zone. Hurst will have to step up his game to get to that level. Hoop is probably a top 5 TE. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Laughable bro. Watched some tape last week. I think these guys are totally sleeping on some of dude's attributes. Great route runner. Knew how to get open. Was always where Ryan wanted him. Made several TonyG level catches in major traffic. Decent yac man after the catch. Good in the zone. Hurst will have to step up his game to get to that level. Hoop is probably a top 5 TE. 

 

 

They’re not sleeping FF70, most are just incapable of admitting they’ve been wrong about him after claiming hoop was a bust during his soph year when he had a few critical drops.

Hey, I liked some of hurst’s physical attributes coming out of college, but truth is he’s done very little in pros. Folks in here projecting he’ll be better than or even as good as hoop are .. as you say....drinking some serious dimi koolaide. :ninja:
 

And hurst is like 2 years older than hoop. Interesting how peeps been claiming hoop maxed out here while HH has upside.

And yes sir, hoop over past two seasons was a top 5 TE in production.  

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

They’re not sleeping, most are just incapable of admitting they’ve been wrong about him after claiming hoop was a bust during his soph year when he had a few critical drops.

Hey, I liked some of hurst’s physical attributes coming out of college, but truth is he’s done very little in pros. Peeps projecting he’ll be better than or even as good as hoop are .. as you say....drinking some serious dimi koolaide. :ninja:
 

And hurst is like 2 years older than hoop. Interesting how peeps been claiming hoop maxed out here while HH has upside.

And yes sir, hoop over past two seasons was a top 5 TE in production.  

I like Hurst. Should be a better blocker. Maybe slightly more productive in the seams. He's gonna have to step up his game to get on Hoop's level as a complete TE though. Hoop got caught up in Dimi's second cap purge. Much like 2013. I would have found a way to keep him. His 2020 hit in CLE is a whopping $4.0M. Less than Carpenter, Brown, Bailey and Allen. Jeez man. Troffed. Mayfield and the CLE fans will love Hooper. Trust me.

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

They’re not sleeping FF70, most are just incapable of admitting they’ve been wrong about him after claiming hoop was a bust during his soph year when he had a few critical drops.

Hey, I liked some of hurst’s physical attributes coming out of college, but truth is he’s done very little in pros. Folks in here projecting he’ll be better than or even as good as hoop are .. as you say....drinking some serious dimi koolaide. :ninja:
 

And hurst is like 2 years older than hoop. Interesting how peeps been claiming he maxed out here while HH has upside.

And yes sir, hoop over past two seasons was a top 5 TE in production.  

You have done no research on Hurst or you would know these comments are not valid.  I agree with you on Hoop, he is a very good TE.  But, Hurst is coming in here much like a rookie, despite his age and years in the league.  He was in a situation where he simply did not have sufficient opportunity.  This is why posters think he has upside. He did well in a rotational and situational role, but did not have that starting role that showed his capability and allowed him to develop further. 

I am not saying how good Hurst will be.  We simply do not know how he will look in a starting role.  But, as I was stating with FF70, we cannot state at this point how good/bad he is going to be. 

Everyone, let's let these players hit the field and get a few games behind them before we declare their value.  It is like you are arguing how the stock market will swing .  You really have to want to argue to engage in either.

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1 hour ago, NaGaBoy said:

You have done no research on Hurst or you would know these comments are not valid.  I agree with you on Hoop, he is a very good TE.  But, Hurst is coming in here much like a rookie, despite his age and years in the league.  He was in a situation where he simply did not have sufficient opportunity.  This is why posters think he has upside. He did well in a rotational and situational role, but did not have that starting role that showed his capability and allowed him to develop further. 

I am not saying how good Hurst will be.  We simply do not know how he will look in a starting role.  But, as I was stating with FF70, we cannot state at this point how good/bad he is going to be. 

Everyone, let's let these players hit the field and get a few games behind them before we declare their value.  It is like you are arguing how the stock market will swing .  You really have to want to argue to engage in either.

Actually, I’ve probably done as much or more study on Hurst as you and most any other people in here have. Like I said earlier, I was wanting him in the draft and (as some in here know) I’m also a closet ravens fan, so I’ve followed him closely in the pros as well.

And i never said he would be bad, and in fact said in my earlier post above the one you quoted  I was glad we traded for him....

so since you decided to step in it, exactly what “research” am I missing, my friend?

 

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On ‎05‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 11:48 AM, FalconFanSince1970 said:

LMAO. To sign this year's free agency and draft class we had to jettison:

  • Austin Hooper
  • Desmond Trufant
  • Devonta Freeman
  • Vic Beasley
  • DeVondre Campbell
  • Mohamed Sanu
  • Wes Schweitzer
  • Adrian Clayborn
  • Luke Stocker
  • Jack Crawford
  • Kemal Ishmael
  • Ty Sambrailo
  • Kenjon Barner

That's thirteen players. Seven starters (four pro bowlers), five key back ups and our return guy. Also includes our number one CB, DE, RB, TE and leading tackler. That's a flat out Dimi cap purge bro. Even you should see that. So far we've replaced them with:

  • Dante Fowler
  • Todd Gurley
  • Hayden Hurst
  • Six free agent busts
  • Six rookie draft picks that will take 1-3 years to develop
  • A slew of UDFAs that will be flipping burgers this fall

For the last five years we've been at the bottom of the league in available cap space. Currently hovering around $1M and waiting for 6/1 money for the third year in a row, so we can go bottom feeding. And you're giddy? Not surprised.

 

Austin Hooper is a stud - swapping for Hurst is a positive on the cap. Hurst can get similar production. Hoop is better here. 

Trufant- Fart was a horrible fit in our scheme. He was too stupid and unintelligent to play zone, and an unwilling tackler. Swapping him for Terrell is a net gain on the cap and play on the field overall. 

Freeman - Freeman remains a street fa, too injury prone. We got better with Gurley and freed cap space. 

Vic Bustly - Good riddance. We subtracted a Rec bball star for a real football player. We got better. Bustly was a DPR. 

Dr Dre Campbell - Campbell is straight up trash. Been in the system over 5 years and was atrocious without deion to cover up his mistakes. We are better off without his rookie level play. Too many blown assignments cost us too many games. Football stupid and bad instincts just like Trufant. 

Sanu - Sanu is excellent but aging and we needed to clear cap space. Our WR core is a strength. 

Wes Sweitcher - Stinks. We got way better with Henessey. Wes is below average. 

Clayborn- Excellent player who we could potentially miss. We have a good ascending DE who could do what he does in Cominsy. 

Stocker - I am not sure why you brought this one up. He was bad. 

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