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gazoo

Tampa Bay's $25 Mill Chunk of Fools Gold and why Marlon Davidson will expose it

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I think the Pats should have never let Brady get away, but it all came down to the egos of Bill/Brady. Both were tired of the other one getting all the credit. We will see how it works out for the both of them.

It will be interesting to see how Brady does in Tampa. I think you are going to see a different type of offense from Arians because Brady can't survive getting hit week after week. You will see a bigger emphasis on running the ball with a short passing game. They will probably use Gronk to get mismatches and let Brady exploit them. We better be ready to jam the receivers at the LOS or they will expose us with the short passing game.

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1 hour ago, gazoo said:

It seems people have no idea what my OP is arguing. I didn't say if he had a running start at at full sprint and heaved it as far as he could he couldn't throw it far. His entire body from legs to core is involved in that throw.

I said if he wears his arm down throwing long balls early this season, and if you prevent him  from stepping into his throw where he has to rely on just the strength of his arm to get zip on the ball, it will wear down as season goes on.  If you take his pocket away he will be reduced to mediocre at best by mid to late season. 

I also said if Brady isn't going to have the best coaching in NFL history making sure his interior OL keeps defenders off him, hes going to be rendered mediocre as well.

 

I understand your premise.  Watch the video I posted above.  Brady has lost arm strength, but it’s still more than enough.  I think he still throws as hard as Ryan, and Ryan’s arm is plenty good

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28 minutes ago, Jpg428gggg said:

I think the Pats should have never let Brady get away, but it all came down to the egos of Bill/Brady. Both were tired of the other one getting all the credit. We will see how it works out for the both of them.

It will be interesting to see how Brady does in Tampa. I think you are going to see a different type of offense from Arians because Brady can't survive getting hit week after week. You will see a bigger emphasis on running the ball with a short passing game. They will probably use Gronk to get mismatches and let Brady exploit them. We better be ready to jam the receivers at the LOS or they will expose us with the short passing game.

Only one way to stop Brady from killing you with death by a thousand cuts.....you HAVE to dirty the pocket.  Otherwise, its irrelevant how good your safeties and LBs are. You aren't going to have All Pros at every position, he'll just find the weak link and keep hitting.

Now, if you dirty his pocket/jam his receivers/ pound on him he gets flustered and can't do this to you.

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Just now, gazoo said:

Only one way to stop Brady from killing you with death by a thousand cuts.....you HAVE to dirty the pocket.  Otherwise, its irrelevant how good your safeties and LBs are. You aren't going to have All Pros at every position, he'll just find the weak link and keep hitting.

Now, if you dirty his pocket/jam his receivers/ pound on him he gets flustered and can't do this to you.

Yeah, I agree. He no longer has the arm strength to operate in a dirty pocket.

We have to play sound defense at all levels. Doesn't matter if we get pressure if he is getting rid of it in under 3 seconds. And it doesn't matter how well we cover if we can't get to him.

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6 hours ago, 408Falcon said:

Anyone thinking Brady is going to have a bad year is crazy. He was doing fine with very few weapons. They were plug and play with RB and WR's. He had a stable tight end with Gronk and even then, they went to playoffs last year. Of course they had a ridiculous scoring defense the first half of the season, but he is still the GOAT and has some gas left in the tank. Now with Evans, Godwin, Gronk and some other pieces, he's got some toys to work with.

I said it many times, but "Father Time catches up to EVERYBODY!"

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1 hour ago, Jpg428gggg said:

Yeah, I agree. He no longer has the arm strength to operate in a dirty pocket.

We have to play sound defense at all levels. Doesn't matter if we get pressure if he is getting rid of it in under 3 seconds. And it doesn't matter how well we cover if we can't get to him.

You force Brady to move sideways where he starts getting paranoid "sees ghosts" according to a Steeler's safety which if you watch tape you'll see him ducking phantoms if he's out of the pocket, or force Brady to retreat, either way doesn't have the ability to step forward and throw the tomahawk chop ball over the DL to his crossing route or slant in under 3 seconds.  

If you allow Brady to play with a clean pocket, its death by a thousand cuts.

So many here have no idea how much Belichick and Scarnecchia made sure Brady had that interior safe space in his pocket.  Scarnecchia was Brady's OL coach all but two seasons, and Scarnecchia taught this pass protection technique to his center and OGs that masked their holding and released just before officials could call it.  Just wait, that tactic is out in Tampa. 

 

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2 hours ago, Jesus said:

You don't let your 6 time super bowl winning MVP QB leave if he still has something left to give 

It wasn’t up to NE.  Brady has complete control and decided a year ago 2019 would be his last in NE

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52 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

This is exactly why I wanted Derek Brown.  Brown + Grady would push up the middle and make life hard for two old QB's in the division.  Hopefully, Davidson can provide what Brown would have.

That's who I was hoping for as well. Push is just as effective as penetration in this case. 

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3 hours ago, Jesus said:

You don't let your 6 time super bowl winning MVP QB leave if he still has something left to give 

Who said it was up to NE BB.....TB wanted out so he can prove himself and I dam sure wouldn’t bet against him. This SOB is motivated more than ever....if you haven’t go read his book TB12 method. Dude ain’t right

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21 hours ago, ya_boi_j said:

I dont think anyone is worried about Brady entering the division. For the most we've pointed out that hes an improvement over Winston. 

I'm not worried.

I'm effin livid. This means we have to keep hearing about Superbowl 51 beat down by Brady. Have to see him 2x not looking forward to it.....actually their roster is the best so far in entire NFC ...must admit.

 

 

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I wonder how the Buc locker room will be with the ever present Brady and Gronk show playing 24-7. Brady bringing in his personal trainer who Belichick finally banned from Patriots facilities. Pretty sure it’s gonna be Brady’s offense instead of BA’s.There’s going to be jealousy among the rank and file. Just wait. 
 

How many of these supposed Dream Teams have we seen fail miserably. Pretty much all. 

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18 hours ago, tl;dr said:

It’s a shame we didn’t get to see Peyton Manning with those Patriots. They would have won more than 6 rings. Tom Brady, the luckiest player of all time

2001 - Pat's beat Raiders in OT in a blizzard with 4" of accumulation on the Field. Even with the tuck rule call and Vinatieri kicks going his way, I don't think the Manning of 2001 can pull that game out.

2003 - Playoff game vs Titans in 5 degree at start, wind chill well under 0.  Brady doesn't turn the ball over in 3 point win.  Again, not convinced Manning of 2003 plays in that game and doesn't turn the ball over..i.e. doesn't choke.

2004 - Manning faced the Pat's #2 defense in Divisional round on the road in light snow.  He and his record breaking offense managed 3 points.  The following week Brady faced the Steelers #1 defense on the road in worse weather and put up 34 offensive points.

2013 - Manning faces the great Seahawks defense in SB and has a 73 rating, several turnovers and only 1 garbage time score.  Brady faced them the next year in SB has over 100 rating, 4 Td passes including coming back from 10 down in 4th quarter.

2016 - ...SB - Don't want to mention it but is Manning doing that?

2017- SB, Brady throws over 500 yds and 3 scores but not enough.....that could have been easily #6.  The next year he gets #6 but I agree Manning could have won that game.

Bottom line, I doubt Manning has as many rings as Brady.  I don't think any QB would win 6 and make 9.  Pats weren't the Pats for 20 years just because they had a good QB or a good coach.  It's because they had the GOATs of both.

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9 minutes ago, VegasOdds101 said:

2001 - Pat's beat Raiders in OT in a blizzard with 4" of accumulation on the Field. Even with the tuck rule call and Vinatieri kicks going his way, I don't think the Manning of 2001 can pull that game out.

2003 - Playoff game vs Titans in 5 degree at start, wind chill well under 0.  Brady doesn't turn the ball over in 3 point win.  Again, not convinced Manning of 2003 plays in that game and doesn't turn the ball over..i.e. doesn't choke.

2004 - Manning faced the Pat's #2 defense in Divisional round on the road in light snow.  He and his record breaking offense managed 3 points.  The following week Brady faced the Steelers #1 defense on the road in worse weather and put up 34 offensive points.

2013 - Manning faces the great Seahawks defense in SB and has a 73 rating, several turnovers and only 1 garbage time score.  Brady faced them the next year in SB has over 100 rating, 4 Td passes including coming back from 10 down in 4th quarter.

2016 - ...SB - Don't want to mention it but is Manning doing that?

2017- SB, Brady throws over 500 yds and 3 scores but not enough.....that could have been easily #6.  The next year he gets #6 but I agree Manning could have won that game.

Bottom line, I doubt Manning has as many rings as Brady.  I don't think any QB would win 6 and make 9.  Pats weren't the Pats for 20 years just because they had a good QB or a good coach.  It's because they had the GOATs of both.

Very well said...people just aren’t willing to admit both are the GOAT at what they do.  

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Posted (edited)
On 5/4/2020 at 8:30 PM, Jesus said:

He isn't going to throw 30 pics. As long as his arm doesn't fall off they are going to do well. Remember last year he looked amazing for the first half of the season and looked his age come the playoffs.

He also isn’t going to throw 30 TD’s either, something he hasn’t done since 2017.

They also played 1 team with a winning record in the first half the season (against the Bills) which they barely won despite the Patriots defense only allowing 10 points because Brady played like absolute trash (18/39, 46.2% completion, 150 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT, 45.9 QB rating) and it took Josh Allen getting knocked out the game and Barkley throwing an INT in Patriots territory to end the game.

On 5/5/2020 at 1:38 AM, Osiruz said:

Sure they are rated #28 in points but alot of that is because Jameis Winston threw 30 picks, and 7 pick 6's which are the most in history.

Even without those 48 points given up from those 7 pick-6’s, 4 XP’s, and one 2-pt conversion, the Buccaneers defense still gave up 401 points (25.1 ppg) which is still 24th in the league right behind y’all 23rd-ranked scoring defense at 399 points (24.9 ppg).

On 5/5/2020 at 11:00 AM, FalconsIn2012 said:

I honestly don’t think it’s much weaker.  In the 1st two minutes you’ll see him make every throw necessary in an Arians offense.  Brady isn’t gonna win an MVP this year, but his arm is still plenty good and his intangibles are still the best in football

@gazoo is arm strength really his problem.  Or as the clip shows, could his WR’s simply not separate

 

If his receivers can’t separate and he can’t drive the ball to them in tight windows then yeah, arm strength is going to be a pretty big problem.

Lobbing 20-25 yard passes to wide open receivers is not the same as trying to fit in a 20-25 yard pass in an almost nonexistent window to a receiver getting smothered.

On 5/5/2020 at 11:22 AM, quotemokc said:

 

:lol:

On 5/5/2020 at 11:49 AM, FalconsIn2012 said:

LOL...

As an aside, he looks  to throw it around 62 yards with no problem.  His arm is still good enough.

And it took him running up 5 steps into the pocket to launch it that far (without any accuracy) and it was almost picked off. 

He won’t be afforded that luxury in Tampa Bay when defenders are going to be up in his chest every dropback.

Last year Brady was sacked 27 times and was hit 37 times. Winston was sacked 47 times and hit 54 times. He will take some punishment behind that offensive line and it won’t be pretty. Arians better tear those deep, long developing route concepts out his playbook or he’s going to have to get the equipment staff to scrape Brady off Tampa’s sloppy field after nearly every drive.

Edited by Iron Saint

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29 minutes ago, Iron Saint said:

He also isn’t going to throw 30 TD’s either, something he hasn’t done since 2017.

They also played 1 team with a winning record in the first half the season (against the Bills) which they barely won despite the Patriots defense only allowing 10 points because Brady played like absolute trash (18/39, 46.2% completion, 150 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT, 45.9 QB rating) and it took Josh Allen getting knocked out the game and Barkley throwing an INT in Patriots territory to end the game.

Even without those 48 points given up from those 7 pick-6’s, 4 XP’s, and one 2-pt conversion, the Buccaneers defense still gave up 401 points (25.1 ppg) which is still 24th in the league right behind y’all 23rd-ranked scoring defense at 399 points (24.9 ppg).

If his receivers can’t separate and he can’t drive the ball to them in tight windows then yeah, arm strength is going to be a pretty big problem.

Lobbing 20-25 yard passes to wide open receivers is not the same as trying to fit in a 20-25 yard pass in an almost nonexistent window to a receiver getting smothered.

:lol:

And it took him running up 5 steps into the pocket to launch it that far (without any accuracy) and it was almost picked off. 

He won’t be afforded that luxury in Tampa Bay when defenders are going to be up in his chest every dropback.

Last year Brady was sacked 27 times and was hit 37 times. Winston was sacked 47 times and hit 54 times. He will take some punishment behind that offensive line and it won’t be pretty. Arians better tear those deep, long developing route concepts out his playbook or he’s going to have to get the equipment staff to scrape Brady off Tampa’s sloppy field after nearly every drive.

NE’s line was trash for most of the year.  Brady has more arm strength than Brees and now has better WR’s.  Brees is fine, Brady will be as well

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2 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

NE’s line was trash for most of the year.  Brady has more arm strength than Brees and now has better WR’s.  Brees is fine, Brady will be as well

And Tampa’s line wasn’t much better and doesn’t seem to have improved much considering they appear to be returning 4 of their 5 starters from 2019, only replacing Dotson with Wirfs which is an improvement but not the overhaul they need for that unit.

Brady may still have more arm strength and even better targets (which is debatable*), but Brees has a far better OL, a far better running game to lean on, and is in an offensive system he’s proven he can excel in, even in the twilight of his career.

Meanwhile Brady is going to an offensive system designed to push the ball downfield 35+ times per game, behind a patchwork OL, and no notable running game worth mentioning. We’ve seen at nearly every one of Arians’ NFL stops (5 of 6 stops as a QB/OC/HC) his refusal to adjust his system to his QB and as a result his QB post their career high interception total. I’m skeptical will be any different with Brady, especially since his current career high INT total is only 14.

Last year Brady averaged 38.3 pass attempts per game; 242 of his 613 attempts (39.5%) came in games where he threw 35+ times and they won by 14+ points.

Winston averaged 39.1 pass attempts per game and 364 of his 626 attempts (58.2%) of his attempts came in a losing effort. That’s going to be a ***** slap of reality for Brady if he’s throwing the ball 40+ times a game and the losses pile up. The honeymoon could be over not long after it begins in Tampa.

* I said it’s debatable because I’d still take Thomas over Evans, Cook over 2020 Broken Gronkowski, both our RB’s over whatever they’re planning on trotting out there this year, and I’d also take Kamara over whoever their WR3 is considering they’ll catch about the same amount of balls. Really the only person in that offense I’d take over his Saints counterpart is Godwin and it’s mostly because of Sanders’ age.

 

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16 hours ago, Iron Saint said:

He also isn’t going to throw 30 TD’s either, something he hasn’t done since 2017.

They also played 1 team with a winning record in the first half the season (against the Bills) which they barely won despite the Patriots defense only allowing 10 points because Brady played like absolute trash (18/39, 46.2% completion, 150 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT, 45.9 QB rating) and it took Josh Allen getting knocked out the game and Barkley throwing an INT in Patriots territory to end the game.

Even without those 48 points given up from those 7 pick-6’s, 4 XP’s, and one 2-pt conversion, the Buccaneers defense still gave up 401 points (25.1 ppg) which is still 24th in the league right behind y’all 23rd-ranked scoring defense at 399 points (24.9 ppg).

They had a total of 41 turnovers with 30 interceptions and 11 fumbles good for worst in the NFL, 6 more than the next closest team. They would have been middle of the pack in points given up otherwise. 

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14 hours ago, Iron Saint said:

 

* I said it’s debatable because I’d still take Thomas over Evans, Cook over 2020 Broken Gronkowski, both our RB’s over whatever they’re planning on trotting out there this year, and I’d also take Kamara over whoever their WR3 is considering they’ll catch about the same amount of balls. Really the only person in that offense I’d take over his Saints counterpart is Godwin and it’s mostly because of Sanders’ age.

 

Agreed.

But would you take them over Ryan/Gurley/Julio/RidleyHurst/Gage et al? 
 

:ninja::ninja::ninja:

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14 hours ago, Iron Saint said:

* I said it’s debatable because I’d still take Thomas over Evans, Cook over 2020 Broken Gronkowski, both our RB’s over whatever they’re planning on trotting out there this year, and I’d also take Kamara over whoever their WR3 is considering they’ll catch about the same amount of balls. Really the only person in that offense I’d take over his Saints counterpart is Godwin and it’s mostly because of Sanders’ age.

 

It’s debatable, but I’ll take Evans, Goodwin & Tyler Johnson over Thomas, Sanders & nobody

Gronk, Howard & Brate > Cooke

Brady = Brees

NO OL > TB OL

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Thing is I don’t think Brady’s just going to jump on a new horse and rewind his NE production and I don’t care whose on his offense.There will be some growing pains and personally I think to much are in love oh well it’s Tom Brady everything’s good.

The nuance and the lesser preparation time are hinderances in itself.

Id take what we have and what the Saints have over Tampa just because of that alone.I haven’t even mentioned a running game or protection issues they’ve had in Tampa for years on top of what I’ve mentioned man can’t believe a fans refuse to see that.

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On 5/5/2020 at 7:31 PM, Lowndesfalc said:

I wonder how the Buc locker room will be with the ever present Brady and Gronk show playing 24-7. Brady bringing in his personal trainer who Belichick finally banned from Patriots facilities. Pretty sure it’s gonna be Brady’s offense instead of BA’s.There’s going to be jealousy among the rank and file. Just wait. 
 

How many of these supposed Dream Teams have we seen fail miserably. Pretty much all. 

You actually consider this a dream team? They only added Brady and Gronk for the most part. Not like theh went out paying top dollar for every big name guy. I dont think this qualifies as a dream team at all

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