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Falcons Trade For DE Charles Harris


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Why are y’all hating? It’s a 7th rounder and a smart move concerning Takks inability to finish a season healthy and also likely attitude to having his 5th season declined. Cry about not having depth t

For a 7th rounder... why not. We will have a 7th round compensatory pick anyway. I dont think this is a bad move at all.

3.5 sacks in three seasons, albeit with a terrible team. Depth pick - hopefully we didn't give up more than a seventh or sixth at the most!

21 minutes ago, DonOfThemBirds said:

 

I never said you compared Miller to Mack.

 

I used them to prove a point that the term "tweener" is not really describing much of what a player actually is in today's NFL.

 

Vic Beasley is much more of a speed rusher than Charles Harris is. Watch the Titans have to use primarily stunts and lining Beasley out wide and blitz him just to make him effective.

 

I put my money more on Charles Harris becoming a more polished edge rusher technique wise than Beasley. Beasley is 100% a speed rusher and that's the only thing I think he'll ever be.

 

The main reason I disagree with the similarities is that Charles Harris has shown signs that he can effectively use pass rushing moves more than Beasley. He just needs to improve on them and also finish at the QB. I think that's what Quinn sees in him that he thinks he can fix.

 

The biggest question of all is Harris' work ethic to get better and motor compared to Beasley's. Which I think Harris may have over Beasley.

What signs would that be though? 3.5 sacks in 3 seasons doesn’t give you much to work with. 
 

Tweeners or whatever,  that’s not all I mentioned. You said originally Harris‘s game was not comparable to Beasley, I gave you a slew of aspects showing that he was.

With that said, I hope you’re right. We need all the help we can get in making Brady/Brees et al uncomfortable in the pocket this year. He’s certainly worth the risk of a 7th rounder if he can contribute to that. 

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1 hour ago, HEIST said:

Beasley, for all of his flaws, is one of the most athletic players in the NFL and does have a first team all pro under his belt.

 

It's like comparing signing Kevin White and saying he has some Julio to him smh.

 

 

Exactly

 

Beasley was also used outside of being an edge rusher. Beasley was used as a QB spy and other assignments on the defense.

 

Can't use Charles Harris like that.

 

People keep looking at their similar height, weight, and position to make comparisons.

 

Beasley had one of the greatest combines ever while Harris had a disappointing combine numbers wise.

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23 minutes ago, DonOfThemBirds said:

 

All those guys were considered tweeners coming out of college.

 

They all overcame the stereotypes of the tweener label.

 

Elvis Dumervil was another one.

While Beasley and Harris haven’t... which was my point you seem to ignore.

I will say this though....Harris would not be the first guy to leave a team and turn it around in a change of scenery. So I’m with you that it’s a good risk to take for our Birds.

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15 minutes ago, Vandy said:

What signs would that be though? 3.5 sacks in 3 seasons doesn’t give you much to work with. 
 

Tweeners or whatever,  that’s not all I mentioned. You said originally Harris‘s game was not comparable to Beasley, I gave you a slew of aspects showing that he was.

With that said, I hope you’re right. We need all the help we can get in making Brady/Brees et al uncomfortable in the pocket this year. He’s certainly worth the risk of a 7th rounder if he can contribute to that. 

 

13 minutes ago, Vandy said:

While Beasley and Harris haven’t... which was my point you can’t seem to grasp.

 

My point is that Beasley's game is not the same as Harris'.

 

Beasley's game was more versatile than Harris'. Beasley was used in many other ways in the defense than just edge rushing. Beasley had different spy and coverage duties along with rushing the passer.

 

You can't try that with Harris because he isn't close to as athletic and fast as Beasley.

 

Harris is closer to being strictly an edge rusher.

 

 

Also, both Fowler and Takk are tweeners.

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6 minutes ago, Vandy said:

While Beasley and Harris haven’t... which was my point you seem to ignore.

I will say this though....Harris would not be the first guy to leave a team and turn it around in a change of scenery. So I’m with you that it’s a good risk to take for our Birds.

 

Georgia Vs Vanderbilt 2018 Full Game #HomerCast GIF | Gfycat

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28 minutes ago, DonOfThemBirds said:

 

 

My point is that Beasley's game is not the same as Harris'.

 

Beasley's game was more versatile than Harris'. Beasley was used in many other ways in the defense than just edge rushing. Beasley had different spy and coverage duties along with rushing the passer.

 

You can't try that with Harris because he isn't close to as athletic and fast as Beasley.

 

Harris is closer to being strictly an edge rusher.

 

 

Also, both Fowler and Takk are tweeners.

You seem to be taking this tweener thingy a little too harshly. Again, I mentioned many other similar traits which you ignored and keep focusing on this one.

Maybe LB/edge hybrid is a better description. At least that’s what Flores tried to do with him last year, but it obviously didn’t work.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thephinsider.com/platform/amp/2019/3/27/18284173/miami-dolphins-defensive-end-charles-harris-brian-flores

Selah.

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I’ll leave this data here, you guys can make whatever opinion you want from it.


2019: Rankings out of 175 edge defenders


Fowler - 473 pass rush snaps,  15 sacks, 67 pressures, 26th in pressure rate

Takk - 277 pass rush snaps, 4 sacks, 32 pressures, 68th in pressure rate (Missed multiple games)

Vic - 376 pass rush snaps, 9 sacks, 36 pressures, 89th in pressure rate

Harris - 206 pass rush snaps, 0 sacks, 14 pressures, 154th in pressure rate

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7 minutes ago, Vandy said:

You seem to be taking this tweeten thing a little too harsh. Again, I mentioned many other similar traits but you keep focusing on this one.

Maybe LB/edge hybrid is a better description. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thephinsider.com/platform/amp/2019/3/27/18284173/miami-dolphins-defensive-end-charles-harris-brian-flores

 

 

Harris and Beasley are comparable I'm heights and weights, but Beasley is by far the better athlete.

 

Beasley was also used much differently than Harris. Beasley was used in a variety of ways outside of being an edge rusher. He had different coverage assignments and spy duties.

 

Harris isn't athletic enough to consider that and hoping it'll turn out for the best.

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6 hours ago, EpicBird said:

Here’s the problem: His salary of $1.9 million is fully guaranteed. He’s had 3.5 sacks in 41 career games. You could get that from a practice squad player for less than a third of that money. So unless DQ thinks he alone has the special sauce to turn Charles Harris into something he’s emphatically showed he ain’t, this is waste of money, waste of a draft pick (even a conditional one), and a waste of a roster spot. Dolphins probably can’t believe they found someone to take the guy off their hands. 

My problem is DQ hasn't developed a single pass rusher period. Takk and VB44 were nightmares outside of his fluke year, DQ says he's gonna fix him and the loser doesn't even show up for the workouts. Unless the dude has a killer instinct and grit to improve he's not going to improve. All the pass rushing talent we've had that's been productive were already good before coming to the Falcons, and honestly that dates back to the JA55 era. Kerney is the last good pass rusher we actually drafted.

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13 minutes ago, Rings said:

I’ll leave this data here, you guys can make whatever opinion you want from it.


2019: Rankings out of 175 edge defenders


Fowler - 473 pass rush snaps,  15 sacks, 67 pressures, 26th in pressure rate

Takk - 277 pass rush snaps, 4 sacks, 32 pressures, 68th in pressure rate (Missed multiple games)

Vic - 376 pass rush snaps, 9 sacks, 36 pressures, 89th in pressure rate

Harris - 206 pass rush snaps, 0 sacks, 14 pressures, 154th in pressure rate

https://relativeathleticscores.com/2017/05/05/relative-athletic-scores-directly-correlate-to-sack-production-in-the-nfl/amp/
 

Good article. Snipping the part on Charles Harris below, among potential outliers; even tho his production to date is basically nothing.

Not a bad gamble at all for a 7th when we are getting a comp possibly. Falcons did extensive 1on1 with him before the draft that year. Probably better than anyone you’d get next year at that spot:

Article:

The Outliers

It’s always important to remember that we track metrics that there will always be outliers. Trends like the one we just showed with RAS and pass rushing success are measurements of probability, not possibility. Players like L.J. Collier and Charles Harris get drafted early because teams are gambling that they are going to be an outlier to the data. It isn’t, to be frank, a great gamble as far as pure probability is concerned, but there have been enough examples of success that teams take their shots. Sometimes players are outliers because they had an injury, or just a relatively bad day at the combine. Players like Greg Hardy (4.67) and Michael Bennett (2.72) had poor combines but measured significantly better at their pro days. By significantly better, I’m referring to more than just the normal pro day bump that players see in their measurements, but a much better performance. This could apply, partly anyway, to Charles Harris as he posted far superior explosion and agility numbers at his pro day than he did at the combine. His numbers still didn’t catapult him into the elite range, but it was better than his poor combine score.

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16 minutes ago, ATLFalcon36 said:

My problem is DQ hasn't developed a single pass rusher period. Takk and VB44 were nightmares outside of his fluke year, DQ says he's gonna fix him and the loser doesn't even show up for the workouts. Unless the dude has a killer instinct and grit to improve he's not going to improve. All the pass rushing talent we've had that's been productive were already good before coming to the Falcons, and honestly that dates back to the JA55 era. Kerney is the last good pass rusher we actually drafted.

Didn't show up for OTAs and remained on the team. Excellent message to send to the players.

Jamming to Mariah Carey at practice after the 1 and 7 start.

They know they can do anything they want without discipline because this guy wants to be their buddy.

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It's always the worse players and most insignificant moves that inspire the longest threads/most conversation. 

The guys is a bum. He's not going to come here and turn into the next great pass rusher. He's not even going to see the field. It's a meaningless move that's going to result in 0 impact. 

/Thread

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10 minutes ago, Sir Joe™ said:

In terms of what there is to lose, it's not a bad move. Nobody can really argue that given the pick. 

However, in terms of it addressing our pass rush and defensive line it could be argued that the FO is clutching at more straws than a Scarecrow having some alone time. 

This is my issue.  Seems like they’re trying to put a defensive line together with chewing gum and dental floss.  I don’t blame them for trying but it doesn’t evoke any true confidence.

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6 hours ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

He’s been a massive disappointment along the lines of a Jamaal Anderson...we’re doing the Dolphins a favor here, so anything more than a 7th rounder (perhaps with a bump to 6th based on playing performance) would be too much.

TD at least using a cadre of late 2021 comp picks to take fliers in 2020.

TD doesnt care about future picks right now. He might not even be here if we stink it up this season.. lol

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